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Tinto Talks #12 - 15th of May

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, where we delve into the details of the most top-secret project ever made.

This week we talk about something that is rather new to our GSG, and that is the concept of international organizations. Now this may sound like an anachronistic term, and when you read further in this Tinto Talks, you’ll go “but you already have this in previous games”. Yes, we did have some hard-coded systems in previous games, like the Holy Roman Empire, but what we have here in Project Caesar is a completely dynamic system, 100% scriptable and extendable for modders, which allows for many of these, and with far more flavor.

What is an international organization? Well, at its heart is a group of countries that share some common things, and then quite a few attributes that can be defined for them. The instruction file right now is 140 lines long, and it will keep growing.

Some examples of things that an IO can have are the following.
  • If it has a leader or not, and if the leader is a character or a country.
  • If it's unique or there can be multiples of it.
  • If locations can be owned by it or not.
  • Member benefits or penalties.
  • Laws and Policies it can have.
  • Special statuses inside the organization
  • How members will behave during wars
  • And dozens more unique attributes.
Membership in some of these can take a diplomatic relations slot.

As we continue our development of this game, we keep adding more of these, adding more unique flavor to the game.

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We have “control-groups” like every PDS game has had since EU1, and Stellaris added icons for quick selects… The one for Project Caesar can be pretty much anything in the game, and if you start as a member of an organization, you get a control group for it from the start.

Common Organizations
Let's take a look at some of the generic ones, some of these have been hard-coded systems in previous GSGs, and these are not unique organizations in a campaign, but can exist in multiple instances.
Coalitions
These can be created, with a country as a target, when the target has an aggressive expansion beyond a certain threshold.
Unions
This is a sort of defensive alliance between countries that share the same ruler. They may or may not have different levels of integration.

There are a few others like this, including defensive leagues and tribal federations.


Religious Organizations

Catholic Church
Every country in the world that is part of the Catholic faith is a part of this organization. They have issues that the cardinals vote on, and being a member has implications and restrictions. Of course, this has the added benefit of having Catholic pops in Catholic countries paying a tithe to the Church, which eventually finds its way into the Papacy.

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One reason to go Lutheran?

Crusades & Jihads
These are temporary international organizations that will be created when a Crusade or Jihad is called. They have a target set and act like an alliance against that country.

Autocephalous Patriarchates
Meaning self-headed, an Autocephalous Patriarchate is a metropolitan bishop in the Eastern Christian confessions which acts independently and does not depend on or answer to any other hierarchically superior church authority. The different patriarchates then have their own synods of bishops to decide upon anything affecting their own religious jurisdiction.


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WiP grahics etc.

There are many of these, for Orthodox, Miaphysite, and other Eastern Christian confessions.

There are many more, some other religions have a central organization, and others have fragmented ones.


Specific Organization
There are also a fair amount of completely unique and flavorful organizations.

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What's this then?

Tatar Yoke
The Tatar Yoke consists of various principalities of Eastern Europe that are subject to Tatar Rule following their invasion in the 13th century. The most prominent of rulers is awarded the title of Grand Prince, and is tasked with collecting tribute from the other tributaries on behalf of the Golden Horde Khan.

Middle Kingdom
The Middle Kingdom is the meaning of China and has been considered the cultural center of East Asia since Antiquity.

This organization is led by the Huángdì, the Emperor of China, who has a number of Fēng Chén, akin to vassals or tributaries, that can be promoted to Celestial Governors, equivalent to the Secretariats that the Yuán dynasty used in the administrative organization of their empire. Its members have a unique societal value, Sinicized vs Unsinicized, and there’s a Tribute system that determines how much Celestial Authority the Huángdì gets, which is used to enforce Laws and Decrees.

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The Tribute system is a system where the Huángdì sends gold to the other nations in the Middle Kingdom, depending on their size.

Holy Roman Empire
The glory of the ancient Roman Empire lives in the memory of all in Europe, Charlemagne was crowned Roman Emperor, but it was not until the coronation of Otto the Great that the current Holy Roman Empire was born, once again recovering the ambitions of a revived and unified European Empire.

This organization, of course led by an Emperor, has different statuses for countries like secular and religious electors, secular princes, free cities, and imperial prelates. It has laws that impact the organization and its members, the most important at the early game being the Golden Bull, which is a must to get approved in order to further develop the institutions of the Empire.

There are others in the game at the moment, like the Shogunate, the High Kingship of Ireland, and many more, as the system is very flexible to use.

Next week we will talk about what Religions we have in the game.
 
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Can we assume the Hansa is also one of these organisations?

Also, are members of these organisations always countries or can individual locations also be members? I'm noticing some hatched locations in Flanders as part of the HRE
 
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Are international organisations hard coded or customisable? Could I for example found a new Catholic Church for Protestants with its own cardinals and laws?

Modders can make their own easily.

A player has to play with the ones in the game.
 
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Why only frisia and dithmarschen are red? Does it mean peasant republics? Why others types of republics not shown (genoa)?

yes.

Peasant Republics are a special status in HRE.
 
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Does this mean PC might be the first game in Paradox history to accurately represent Switzerland as a permanent military alliance of independent cities and cantons?

I didn't think such a thing would happen in my lifetime.
 
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If the HRE is now an organization you can join (and potentially leave), how does HRE land work now? As in, when you have an upstart French duke holding nominally HRE lands in the lowlands but isn't a member of the IO. Also, how do you join, is it similar requirements to EU4?

land ownership for HRE is different from country membership
 
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In Sinicized vs Unsinicized does it means if you lets say go full S your Mongolian culture transfer to Han or however you call it while if you go full U you pretty much stay Mongol Altaic?

Also for a bit of context about my question in the case of culture transfer I mean full Sinocized = Mongol Han (Not Sino-Altaic) while full Unsinocized Mongol Altaic.
 
Do I understand correctly that with that system I can bring other Patriarchates under the Patriarchate of Constantinople (with some military encouragement, of course)?

yes
 
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I imagine trade leagues like the Hansa will be international organizations. Could larger countries in theory join/create them in that case? I don't know if there is a historical precedent, but could say France, Scotland and Denmark form something akin to the EU and use that to have free trade between themselves?

Also, this addition seems absolutely fantastic!
 
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I notice that countries like Ventinois and Verona have green spots in some of their Locations. Seeing the other green around the HRE, I'm assuming this means it is a free city, and that some locations within regular nations can be designated as Free Cities with the rest of their land being regular land?
 
Greetings,

Thank you for this weeks tinto talk, but what I'd like to talk about is the region of southeastern HRE from the map. It is such a shame that, compared to the high quality and detail of the rest of the map and especially the rest of the HRE, southeastern HRE is so oversimplified. I'm especially referring to Austria. The Duchy of Austria did not cover all those lands. Now it is true that from the end of the 13th century, most of the area shown on the map simply as "Austria" was ruled by the Habsburg dynasty, it was not even close to being a single unified state. It was in fact a group of duchies ruled by the Habsburgs (and untill the 17th century often not by a single person, but were split amongst different people from the dynasty). If like in the previous map, Hainaut and Holland who were ruled by the same person were still shown as seperate states, I do not see why this is not the same for Austria. It should be split at least into the duchies of Austria, Styria, Carniola and Carinthia. Albert II who was ruler at project ceaser start date, was not just "Duke of Austria", he was "Duke of Austria, Duke of Styria, Duke of Carinthia and Duke of Carniola" <- so he was not just duke of a single state, but a duke of multiple states, with their own flags and their own laws and landtags, even their own armies and nobility. I presume this was done for making it easier for the Habsburgs to be strong in the game, but as someone living in Styria (yes, I know, I am biased, but still:p), it is a shame that historical accuracy and an attention to detail has been sacrificed for that.
 
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Just to clarify, can we actually create organizations when playing the game (aside from coalitions and defensive unions) or is this only a neat design tool for the dev team and modders to keep adding new organizations into the game later on?

Its a neat design tool for the dev team and modders to provide flavorful content
 
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Now that we've mentioned the tribute system, I'm curious how PC will describe Ryukyu. After all, the time of game starts seems a bit awkward for Ryukyu, which was first unified in the early 15th century.
 
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