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Tinto Talks #50 - 12th February 2025

Hey everyone, and welcome back. Johan is busy today (allegedly) so instead I will walk you through this Tinto Talks on Formable Countries in our little project called Caesar. It’s a fairly tight feature so this should be nice and quick.



What are Formable Countries?

Basically, formable countries are new tags that you can switch to. Typically they represent historical unions and conquests, but some represent aspirations that never materialised.

Generally speaking, the vision behind Formables is to offer roleplaying and historical immersion, and support player fantasies, rather than modifier stacking. They will change your country name, national flag, and map color. So while you may unlock some content such as advances or other minor unique content, the tag change is often the goal in itself.

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Spain gets some unique advances in the later ages, but not all do.

Rather than your country changing automatically every age, you achieve it by completing certain objectives. Usually, you'll need to control a certain percentage of a predefined set of locations, for example Scandinavia needs 75% of the locations in the Scandinavia region.

There’s typically additional requirements as well such as your Primary Culture belonging to a certain Culture Group. Forming Spain also requires you and all the independent countries in Iberia to be Christian, as it is thematically closely tied to the completion of the Reconquista. Iberian Muslims have the reverse rules for forming Al-Andalus.

Some are directly tied to actions in International Organizations, like the Holy Roman Empire or the Ilkhanate.

Formables also have a Tier that represents their natural order of precedence. You can only form countries that are the same or higher tier than you. For example, England (Tier 2) can form Great Britain (Tier 3) but Great Britain can’t form England. The AI will only form countries that are a higher tier.


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Country formation is just a click away.


There are 3 settings to the relevant game rule.
  1. Only Historical Formable Countries
    1. Only countries that actually formed in the game’s time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Spain and Great Britain
  2. Allow Plausible Formable Countries(Default)
    1. Countries that could plausible have formed, or formed just after the time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Germany and Italy
  3. Allow Ahistorical Formable Countries
    1. Aspirational or fantasy countries can be formed. Examples include
      1. North Sea Empire (which is a Tier IV) if you control Britain and Scandinavia
      2. Europa (Tier V)



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Some countries have different flags depending on the exact manner in which they are formed. For example this variant of the Union Jack with a dominant saltire when you start as Scotland.


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And some formables come with little treats to sweeten the deal.


Screenshot 2025-02-12 123920.png

The Teutonic Order has a long way to go before they can become Prussia…


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But it might be worth it…


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Some exist to fulfil common player fantasies, but only appear if the player chooses in the Game Rules to have the less historical ones.



This is our current list of formable countries, let us know which ones you would like us add!

FormableTierNote
Europa5Ahistorical
Rome4Ahistorical
Hindustan4Plausible
Holy Roman Empire4Plausible
Byzantium4
Ilkhanate4
Iran4
Mongolia4
Mughals4
Rûm4
Russia4
United States4
Celtica3Ahistorical
Latin Empire3Ahistorical
North Sea3Ahistorical
Al-Andalus3Plausible
Arabia3Plausible
Canada3Plausible
Egypt3Plausible
Germany3Plausible
Italy3Plausible
Malaya3Plausible
Ruthenia3Plausible
Scandinavia3Plausible
Shan3Plausible
Banten3
Bengal3
Deccan3
Delhi3
Ethiopia3
Great Britain3
Gujurat3
Hausa3
Inca3
Kongo3
Manchu3
Maratha3
Mexico3
Poland-Lithuania3
Punjab3
Rajput3
Siam3
Sokoto3
Spain3
Timurids3
Two Sicilies3
Yamato3
Africa2Ahistorical
Carthage2Ahistorical
Hen Ogledd2Ahistorical
Aotearoa2Plausible
Greece2Plausible
Jerusalem2Plausible
Livonia2Plausible
Maya2Plausible
Albania2
Armenia2
Austria2
Ayutthaya2
Bahamis2
England2
Georgia2
Golden Horde2
Holstein2
Ireland2
Navarre2
Nepal2
Netherlands2
Poland2
Prussia2
Scotland2
Serbia2
Sweden2
Switzerland2
Tibet2
Wales2
Connacht1Plausible
Ulster1Plausible
Aïr1
Bavaria1
Beja1
Mazovia1
Mecklenburg1
Mossi1
Nassau1
Northumbria1
Pomerania1
Sardinia1
Saxony1
Silesia1


That's it for today's dev diary. Thanks for reading, and we'll see you next time, where we will talk about Subject Types, and an interesting part of the Castilian player fantasy…
 
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I'm guessing Sardinia is supposed to be Sardinia-Piedmont?

Also would be nice to see the Kingdom of Sicily be formable (or at least releasable) since historically this existed around a century before the game start before being absorbed into the Kingdom of Naples.
 
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I am extremely interested in Celtica.

Am I right in assuming I will need to control Ireland, Wales and Scotland?

Or will I be required to control Cornwall, Brittany and the Isle of Man too?
 
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In EU4 nation forming just switches your flag and colors without much ceremony, aside from maybe a pop-up offering you national ideas and traditions. I always found this a bit anti-climactic, because it feels like you've made a major achievement in the game, something like beating a hard boss, without any flavor reward like a story cutscene to show for it.

I think it would be better for PC to have a special pop-up with nice unique art and text when a nation is formed by the player. Nation-forming should arouse that feeling of satisfaction players get when they see that the game itself acknowledges that they've done something worthy of recognition.
 
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I dunno if you can release countries in Japan, if yes it should be at least reformable
I think what this is referring to, I could be wrong, is that the tag "Japan" is the Imperial (or Shogunate? I can't recall) authority only, thus without complete control over its many vassals, while Yamato presumably represents a Meiji-style unification of the country. I'm not sure why you would want to release from there.
 
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Bulgaria should be a formable, no? Given that Ivan Alexander figured that it was a good idea to break up Bulgaria into two states between his sons (Vidin and Tarnovo), plus the breakaway Despotate of Dobruja, there should probably be an option to reunite Bulgaria after it happens to splinter apart.
 
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I'm surprised that France isn't included on this list, especially as an earlier dev diary mentioned that it'd be a potential formable itself. Has it been removed as one in the last few weeks?
 
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my sole coment on this, is that the latin empire should be in the plausible category, rather then the ahistoricla one, on the grounds, that the nominal still existed, and more so acts as a natural goal for the latin states in grecce

a similar case can also be made for livonia on the account that it was something actually attempted during the games time period (e.i the kingdom of livonia)
 
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Why is Africa only tier 2? Does it only include the Roman provinces in north Africa?

Also in the text you say north sea empire is tier 4 while in the table it says tier 3
 
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I'm surprised that France isn't included on this list, especially as an earlier dev diary mentioned that it'd be a potential formable itself. Has it been removed as one in the last few weeks?
France already exists at game start. Unless you’re meaning like a French Empire of sorts.
 
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Yugoslavia; -- plausible
Zapadoslavia (west slavs union); -- plausible
Seljuk Empire; -- plausible
Hispania (Iberian Union); --plausible
Rus (East Slavs union); --plausible
Romenia; --plausible
Slovakia; -- plausible
 
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Why are most Latin American republics missing despite achieving independence prior to 1837? There's only Mexico, we're missing Brazil, Peru, Colombia, Central America, Rio de la Plata, just to name a few. Would be nice to have Quebec, Louisiana, California and Texas as well.
 
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Is Europa… all of Europe??? Can I see the flag for it? Can I see the variants of the flag of the Union Jack? Does the US Flag change depending on amount of states? Are colonies formables? This is greatest dev diary.



CONNECTICUT BETTER BE A FORMABLE NATION OR THE COLONIES BEFORE IT OR MAYBE DOMINION OF NEW ENGLAND
 
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Why are most Latin American republics missing despite achieving independence prior to 1837? There's only Mexico, we're missing Brazil, Peru, Colombia, Central America, Rio de la Plata, just to name a few. Would be nice to have Quebec, Louisiana, California and Texas as well.
I think these aren’t formable and are just maybe colonial nations? What I’m hoping not sure though.
 
It will be better for the Golden Horde to be at the same tier as the Ilkhanate at tier 4, since they were diplomatically at the same rank. Concerning Mongolia, if it just represents the core part of Mongolia, then it should better be at tier 3 like the Manchus.
 
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I suggest changing Al-Andalus requirement to form it of having no christian independant tag in Iberia, this makes no sense unlike Spain. For most of the history of the Emirate/Caliphate of Cordoba (Al-Andalus) Iberia had other chirstian nation(s) such as Asturias, Leon, Aragon, Galicia, Navarre, etc. Maybe instead have the Muslim nation that wants to form it have at least 50% of locations in Iberia as this would have them closer to the idea of Al-Andalus than a mere Taifa…
 
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United Slovenia
Should be used in something like United Sloven Confederation - Prague + Nitra + Ljubljana + Keszthely and can not be a part of HRE. Ahistorical
 
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