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Tinto Talks #50 - 12th February 2025

Hey everyone, and welcome back. Johan is busy today (allegedly) so instead I will walk you through this Tinto Talks on Formable Countries in our little project called Caesar. It’s a fairly tight feature so this should be nice and quick.



What are Formable Countries?

Basically, formable countries are new tags that you can switch to. Typically they represent historical unions and conquests, but some represent aspirations that never materialised.

Generally speaking, the vision behind Formables is to offer roleplaying and historical immersion, and support player fantasies, rather than modifier stacking. They will change your country name, national flag, and map color. So while you may unlock some content such as advances or other minor unique content, the tag change is often the goal in itself.

Screenshot 2025-02-12 113332.png
Screenshot 2025-02-12 112612.png

Spain gets some unique advances in the later ages, but not all do.

Rather than your country changing automatically every age, you achieve it by completing certain objectives. Usually, you'll need to control a certain percentage of a predefined set of locations, for example Scandinavia needs 75% of the locations in the Scandinavia region.

There’s typically additional requirements as well such as your Primary Culture belonging to a certain Culture Group. Forming Spain also requires you and all the independent countries in Iberia to be Christian, as it is thematically closely tied to the completion of the Reconquista. Iberian Muslims have the reverse rules for forming Al-Andalus.

Some are directly tied to actions in International Organizations, like the Holy Roman Empire or the Ilkhanate.

Formables also have a Tier that represents their natural order of precedence. You can only form countries that are the same or higher tier than you. For example, England (Tier 2) can form Great Britain (Tier 3) but Great Britain can’t form England. The AI will only form countries that are a higher tier.


Screenshot 2025-02-12 124554.png

Country formation is just a click away.


There are 3 settings to the relevant game rule.
  1. Only Historical Formable Countries
    1. Only countries that actually formed in the game’s time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Spain and Great Britain
  2. Allow Plausible Formable Countries(Default)
    1. Countries that could plausible have formed, or formed just after the time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Germany and Italy
  3. Allow Ahistorical Formable Countries
    1. Aspirational or fantasy countries can be formed. Examples include
      1. North Sea Empire (which is a Tier IV) if you control Britain and Scandinavia
      2. Europa (Tier V)



Screenshot 2025-02-12 121247.png

Some countries have different flags depending on the exact manner in which they are formed. For example this variant of the Union Jack with a dominant saltire when you start as Scotland.


1739361227786.png

And some formables come with little treats to sweeten the deal.


Screenshot 2025-02-12 123920.png

The Teutonic Order has a long way to go before they can become Prussia…


Screenshot 2025-02-12 124144.png

But it might be worth it…


Screenshot 2025-02-12 121702.png

Some exist to fulfil common player fantasies, but only appear if the player chooses in the Game Rules to have the less historical ones.



This is our current list of formable countries, let us know which ones you would like us add!

FormableTierNote
Europa5Ahistorical
Rome4Ahistorical
Hindustan4Plausible
Holy Roman Empire4Plausible
Byzantium4
Ilkhanate4
Iran4
Mongolia4
Mughals4
Rûm4
Russia4
United States4
Celtica3Ahistorical
Latin Empire3Ahistorical
North Sea3Ahistorical
Al-Andalus3Plausible
Arabia3Plausible
Canada3Plausible
Egypt3Plausible
Germany3Plausible
Italy3Plausible
Malaya3Plausible
Ruthenia3Plausible
Scandinavia3Plausible
Shan3Plausible
Banten3
Bengal3
Deccan3
Delhi3
Ethiopia3
Great Britain3
Gujurat3
Hausa3
Inca3
Kongo3
Manchu3
Maratha3
Mexico3
Poland-Lithuania3
Punjab3
Rajput3
Siam3
Sokoto3
Spain3
Timurids3
Two Sicilies3
Yamato3
Africa2Ahistorical
Carthage2Ahistorical
Hen Ogledd2Ahistorical
Aotearoa2Plausible
Greece2Plausible
Jerusalem2Plausible
Livonia2Plausible
Maya2Plausible
Albania2
Armenia2
Austria2
Ayutthaya2
Bahamis2
England2
Georgia2
Golden Horde2
Holstein2
Ireland2
Navarre2
Nepal2
Netherlands2
Poland2
Prussia2
Scotland2
Serbia2
Sweden2
Switzerland2
Tibet2
Wales2
Connacht1Plausible
Ulster1Plausible
Aïr1
Bavaria1
Beja1
Mazovia1
Mecklenburg1
Mossi1
Nassau1
Northumbria1
Pomerania1
Sardinia1
Saxony1
Silesia1


That's it for today's dev diary. Thanks for reading, and we'll see you next time, where we will talk about Subject Types, and an interesting part of the Castilian player fantasy…
 
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Shouldn't we be able to form Bulgaria (tier 2)?

Just an idea, but I also think it would be cool if Bulgaria could move up to tier 3 if it controls most of the territories of the Second Bulgarian Empire or the First Bulgarian Empire. At that point, the tier change would create interesting flavour, as the Bulgarian Empire would no longer consist mainly of Bulgarians but also include Romans/Greeks and Vlachs. There could be unique events related to their integration into the empire and how Bulgaria now has the strength to expand east and south into the former lands of Eastern Rome, ultimately taking its place as the dominant power in the region.

Maybe there could even be some flavour around making Constantinople, or should I say Tsarigrad:cool:, the capital of this reborn Bulgarian Empire.

Second Bulgarian Empire:
View attachment 1254632
First Bulgarian Empire:
View attachment 1254606
Didn’t the First Bulgarian Empire used to own Transylvania & Moldavia too at its peak?
 
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Also since we have syriacs (a composite of different groups) maybe have Assyria as a formable

Possibly add Aram as a flavor alt name to syria for syriac christians
 
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For Romania, its not even about Michael the Great. Romania's formation was contemporary to the unifications of Germany and Italy. If Germany and Italy are in and are under the plausible cathegory, Romania should aswell. Romania even formed before Germany and around the same exact time as Italy. Wallachia and Moldavia united in 1859 under the name ”The United Principalities of Moldova and Wallachia” and adopted the name ”Romania” in 1866. Italy was proclaimed in 1861 and the German Empire in 1871.
It would be nice if the 3 Wallachian, Moldavian and Transylvanian cultures would merge into 1 Romanian culture the moment you form Romania. Whether it's forming it by owning Wallachia + Moldavia or Wallacha + Transylvania or Transylvania + Moldavia.
 
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It would be nice if the 3 Wallachian, Moldavian and Transylvanian cultures would merge into 1 Romanian culture the moment you form Romania. Whether it's forming it by owning Wallachia + Moldavia or Wallacha + Transylvania or Transylvania + Moldavia.
I'd assume that it would ideally be handled under the same "Russian culture unification" system hinted at with the Russia formable.
 
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Can we have Israel as a tier 2 formable for Jewish countries? It could be Ahistorical, but every Paradox game from CK to HOI has Israel as a formable to represent the ancient aspirations of the Jewish people.
In Project Caesar it could work even better by giving Israel a modifier that attracts migration of Jewish pops.

Also, I think this list is missing Qing as a tier 4, and possibly Ming as well (idk how China is handled in Project Caesar yet).

It would also be nice to have more formable colonial nations, like Brazil, Argentina, Louisiana, Texas, Colombia etc. Unless the team as a better idea on how to represent their creation.
 
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Hey everyone, and welcome back. Johan is busy today (allegedly) so instead I will walk you through this Tinto Talks on Formable Countries in our little project called Caesar. It’s a fairly tight feature so this should be nice and quick.



What are Formable Countries?

Basically, formable countries are new tags that you can switch to. Typically they represent historical unions and conquests, but some represent aspirations that never materialised.

Generally speaking, the vision behind Formables is to offer roleplaying and historical immersion, and support player fantasies, rather than modifier stacking. They will change your country name, national flag, and map color. So while you may unlock some content such as advances or other minor unique content, the tag change is often the goal in itself.

View attachment 1253582View attachment 1253583
Spain gets some unique advances in the later ages, but not all do.

Rather than your country changing automatically every age, you achieve it by completing certain objectives. Usually, you'll need to control a certain percentage of a predefined set of locations, for example Scandinavia needs 75% of the locations in the Scandinavia region.

There’s typically additional requirements as well such as your Primary Culture belonging to a certain Culture Group. Forming Spain also requires you and all the independent countries in Iberia to be Christian, as it is thematically closely tied to the completion of the Reconquista. Iberian Muslims have the reverse rules for forming Al-Andalus.

Some are directly tied to actions in International Organizations, like the Holy Roman Empire or the Ilkhanate.

Formables also have a Tier that represents their natural order of precedence. You can only form countries that are the same or higher tier than you. For example, England (Tier 2) can form Great Britain (Tier 3) but Great Britain can’t form England. The AI will only form countries that are a higher tier.


View attachment 1253586
Country formation is just a click away.


There are 3 settings to the relevant game rule.
  1. Only Historical Formable Countries
    1. Only countries that actually formed in the game’s time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Spain and Great Britain
  2. Allow Plausible Formable Countries(Default)
    1. Countries that could plausible have formed, or formed just after the time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Germany and Italy
  3. Allow Ahistorical Formable Countries
    1. Aspirational or fantasy countries can be formed. Examples include
      1. North Sea Empire (which is a Tier IV) if you control Britain and Scandinavia
      2. Europa (Tier V)



View attachment 1253589
Some countries have different flags depending on the exact manner in which they are formed. For example this variant of the Union Jack with a dominant saltire when you start as Scotland.


View attachment 1253591
And some formables come with little treats to sweeten the deal.


View attachment 1253592
The Teutonic Order has a long way to go before they can become Prussia…


View attachment 1253593
But it might be worth it…


View attachment 1253594
Some exist to fulfil common player fantasies, but only appear if the player chooses in the Game Rules to have the less historical ones.



This is our current list of formable countries, let us know which ones you would like us add!

FormableTierNote
Europa5Ahistorical
Rome4Ahistorical
Hindustan4Plausible
Holy Roman Empire4Plausible
Byzantium4
Ilkhanate4
Iran4
Mongolia4
Mughals4
Rûm4
Russia4
United States4
Celtica3Ahistorical
Latin Empire3Ahistorical
North Sea3Ahistorical
Al-Andalus3Plausible
Arabia3Plausible
Canada3Plausible
Egypt3Plausible
Germany3Plausible
Italy3Plausible
Malaya3Plausible
Ruthenia3Plausible
Scandinavia3Plausible
Shan3Plausible
Banten3
Bengal3
Deccan3
Delhi3
Ethiopia3
Great Britain3
Gujurat3
Hausa3
Inca3
Kongo3
Manchu3
Maratha3
Mexico3
Poland-Lithuania3
Punjab3
Rajput3
Siam3
Sokoto3
Spain3
Timurids3
Two Sicilies3
Yamato3
Africa2Ahistorical
Carthage2Ahistorical
Hen Ogledd2Ahistorical
Aotearoa2Plausible
Greece2Plausible
Jerusalem2Plausible
Livonia2Plausible
Maya2Plausible
Albania2
Armenia2
Austria2
Ayutthaya2
Bahamis2
England2
Georgia2
Golden Horde2
Holstein2
Ireland2
Navarre2
Nepal2
Netherlands2
Poland2
Prussia2
Scotland2
Serbia2
Sweden2
Switzerland2
Tibet2
Wales2
Connacht1Plausible
Ulster1Plausible
Aïr1
Bavaria1
Beja1
Mazovia1
Mecklenburg1
Mossi1
Nassau1
Northumbria1
Pomerania1
Sardinia1
Saxony1
Silesia1


That's it for today's dev diary. Thanks for reading, and we'll see you next time, where we will talk about Subject Types, and an interesting part of the Castilian player fantasy…
I think it would be cool to have formables for HRE games. to have at least some minor goal
So in addition to my previous proposal

Hannover
Westphalia
Franconia
Swabia (or Alamannia)
Upper Lorraine - collides with just Lorraine, can also be Upper Lotharingia
Lower Lorraine (A.K.A. Belgium and Rhineland) collides with just Lorraine, can also be Lower Lotharingia (I do not include the Netherlands here)

Also Hesse and Thuringia as re-formables (they do exist but if you conquer then you can claim it)

Based on stem duchies and historical entities.
1739796440440.png
 
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Hello, I didn't see Bharat in the list but did see both hindustan and mughuls, doesn't it make sense to have an hindu/Dharmic tag formable for India.

2) I don't understand what is meant by "Rajput", Rajput could be defined as a culture or caste or race, I think it's supposed to represent Rajputana or a formable that unites all tags in the Rajputana region, but I doubt they would call themselves Rajput, cause they already called themselves rajput.
 
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Your approach is certainly unique! Ireland can be formed, but Belarus and Ukraine cannot. The Union of Lublin in 1569 is a significant milestone in the formation of Belarusians and Ukrainians. This date refers to the game period. As we know, the emergence of such nations is historical. I do not think that the possibility of the formation of such states at a much earlier time will harm the game. Ireland was formed in 1922. The Ukrainian People's Republic was proclaimed in 1917, the Belarusian People's Republic in 1918.
 
Can you tell us if you keep the unique advancements of your previous country when you form a new one? For example lets say Castile has a unique adancement 'quest for the new world' (patents for the name pending :p) and when you form Spain you retain the Castilian unique advancement in addition to getting the Spain exclusive advancements. If you didnt get the advancement before forming the new country you wouldnt be able to get it afterward reflecting the change in your countrys identity.
It would also be a cool replacement for country ideas that wont be a thing in PC. That way you can create your own ideas by going through the ages and retaining the deeds and experiences of your country shaping the country identinty Civilization style (still to much lesser extent since your only getting what was already there envisione for your country for different era advancements).

It shouldnt cause much of a power creep with how the new formables work since you wont be able to play pokemon and catch them all like some ppl like to do in EU4.
 
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Ava (Tier 2 - Historial) should be a formable Mandala for the Burma region, restricted to the Burmese culture (as opposed to Shan). The Sagaing and Pinya kings can form Ava by eliminating the other.
Ramanya (Tier 3 - Plausible) should be a formable for Hanthawaddy if they reclaim Lanna (Hariphunchai) and Lopburi (Dvaravati) and subjugate the Burmese.

There should be a situation for the collapse of Ava in the hands of the Shan confederation, which would allow Prome or Taungoo to claim the Burmese throne (after seceeding) and lead to events causing the Shan states to fall apart, allowing the rise of a Prome Empire or Taungoo Empire.

Alternatively, The kingdom of Ava, if formed, can choose to change its name based on where they choose to keep the Capital city. For example, they can choose to be the Kingdom of Pagan by moving the capital to the location of Pagan.

Finally, Burma (Tier 3 - Plausible) should be a formable kingdom for the Burma region which can only be formed by eliminating all other Burmese nation-states, subjugating either all Shan states or completely controlling/owning the Mon lands, or both. This should be age-locked to the Age of Absolutism as well. Taungoo should have the best shot to achieve this in a historical AI game mode (if you guys are planning on it).
 
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Generally speaking, the vision behind Formables is to offer roleplaying and historical immersion, and support player fantasies, rather than modifier stacking. They will change your country name, national flag, and map color. So while you may unlock some content such as advances or other minor unique content, the tag change is often the goal in itself.
This is sorta what I was hoping Formables would be about this go around, but I was really REALLY hoping for was a CK2/CK3 inspired system with player-initiated renaming, recoloring, and flag designing alongside the ones properly coded into the game through flavor... I guess I can always hope for the Custom Nation button to return on the mainscreen then :(
 
I'm late but a bunch of people in here said WRE or Francia or Carolingian Empire... given that Germany is an HRE stepping stone I assume we can also form the united HRE by just conquering the place (which makes sense, is what Otto the Great did, and is obviously what would have happened if French monarchists accomplished what Napoleon did). If this is true, is there any reason at all to have WRE/Francia/Carolingian Empire? Like I get that French monarchists would want the title that Charlemagne held... that's the HRE. French rulers in the timeline had designs on the title.

I also feel like insomuch as western Europeans of the time had a concept of roman legitimacy they recognized the HRE so having the WRE in addition to it doesn't really make any sense.
 
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