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Tinto Talks #68 - 18th of June 2025

Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Wednesdays where we talk about Europa Universalis V!

Today, we will discuss the mechanics of Buddhism. In EUV, it is considered another Religious Group, like some that we saw previously, such as Christianity or Islam:
Buddhism.png

Buddhism.jpg

We will focus on the three main branches of pure Buddhism: Theravāda, Eastern Buddhism, and Tibetan Buddhism, which share the same core mechanics.
Theravada.png

Eastern Buddhism.png

Tibetan Buddhism.png

One aspect that all of these share is the presence of Karma as a currency. Karma, same as it was in EU4, can be modified by different factors, and gives different effects depending on its value:
Karma.png

Another very important aspect of Buddhist religions is the presence of various Buddhist Sects. Each religion has a variety of different sects, represented as International Organizations, and countries will belong to the sects of their own religion. Eastern Buddhism countries can belong to a maximum of 3 sects, while the rest of the religions allow for a maximum of a single sect.

Each sect has a value of Favor, representing the influence and support that sect has, as well as locations in which that sect is present. The sects also define themselves through a set of laws establishing their philosophy and teachings.
Mahavihara panel.png

Main Philosophy.png

As long as sects have a high value of favor (over 60%), they will be able to expand their influence by adding more of their neighboring locations to the IO. Conversely, if sects have a low value of favor (less than 40%), they will start losing their locations. Sects will also lose locations if the dominant religion of the location is not the appropriate one. Sects can only gain or lose a single location at a time, though, so they will not completely disappear or extremely increase in size overnight, but it will be a gradual process.

Sects gain or lose favor depending not only on how many countries are part of the IO, but also from countries actively promoting or disfavoring them. A country can choose to favor or disfavor a single sect to affect its favor value, although that will also impact the effects that the country gets from the sect(s) it belongs to.
Religion Panel.png

A country can also choose to leave a sect or to join a new one, but with some caveats. For once, a country will not be able to leave a sect it is part of as long as that sect has over 50% favor. So, if they want to leave that to join a new one, they will have to first make that favor decrease. To join a sect, a country must not already be at its maximum number of sects allowed, and the sect to join needs to be present in their territory or in the territory of an ally or a subject.

Let me now give a brief overview of the available sects.

Theravada Sects:
Theravada Sects.png

Eastern Buddhism Sects:
Eastern Buddhism Sects.png

You might notice here Confucianism and Daoism; we’ll talk more in-depth about them in the last block of the post, devoted to Sānjiào.

Tibetan Buddhism Sects:
Tibetan Buddhism Sects.png

Some of these Sects may be better known by other names, but we used more generic terms for them due to the fact that they are present in multiple countries:
Meditation School.png

Meditation School spread.png

Some of these schools have other special sets of teachings on top of the main ones, like the ones including Vajrayāna Tantric practices, giving some extra actions to the countries that belong to them.
Tantric Practices.png

Tantric Actions.png

There are also two other Buddhist religions I want to talk about, which were pending from previous Tinto Talks. For starters, let’s talk once again about Shintō. As mentioned in its own Tinto Talks, Shintō countries have the ability to Favor Buddhist Schools, and mentioned that that action gives them access to interact with the general Buddhist mechanics. That means that when performing this action, they will gain the same abilities related to the sects, with some costs associated with that:
Favor Buddhist Schools.png

Shinto Buddhist.png

They will thus be able to join the sects of Eastern Buddhism, although they can only join one, with some extra specifically Japanese sects:
Japanese Sects.png

As an extra note related to the Japanese sects, Jōdo Shinshū will also be created as an additional one during the course of the game.

Another religion in the Buddhist group I want to mention (and that some of you have already noticed) is the new religion we have implemented in China, which we have named Sānjiào, something we did after careful consideration, from the feedback received in Tinto Maps. This is to represent the particular blend of Buddhism, Confucianism, and Daoism (together with many other folk beliefs) that has formed and coexisted in China for centuries. As such, a country following Sānjiào will automatically belong to the Confucianism and Daoism Sects, and they will get both the Righteousness and Harmony currencies. On top of that, they will be able to join one extra sect of Eastern Buddhism:
Sanjiao.png

Sanjiao Panel.png


Confucianims.png

Daoism.png

As you can see, these enable two special currencies: Righteousness and Harmony respectively:
Righteousness.png

Harmony.png


Sanjiao Map.png

And that’s all for today! Tomorrow, there will be a post about the process behind the Audio and the OST of the game, while on Friday’s Tinto Flavour, we will take a look at Majapahit!

And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
 
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I can see what the idea was behind the initial concept of having most of East Asia under Mahayana: Buddhism allows several sects to be recognized by the state, and I guess the idea for China, Korea and others was that Confucianism and Daoism would have been accepted sects in that system, although it created the problem, pointed out by many, that Daoism and Confucianism were heavily syncretic with but also definitely not Buddhist schools of thought themselves.

The situation is definitely better now with Sanjiao, at least for China, but I think the problem still exists for Korea, because just like it was going to be awkward to consider China a Buddhist state when the dominant ideology was Confucianism, it's going to be even more awkward to portray how historically in this period the Korean government would end up persecuting and driving Buddhism underground in the name of Neo-Confucian orthodoxy... All while being labelled as having "Eastern Buddhist" religion. It's also awkward how the Buddhist group ends up having a lot of definitely not, or not properly Buddhist religions in them, I guess as a way to represent how Buddhism syncretism was all over the place in East and South-East Asia, but they seemingly don't share a group with Hinduism and Jainism, which should be fairly close religions too.

Maybe a way to handle this is to give Vietnam and Korea their own versions of Sanjiao and "Shintoism" too (aka, local religions heavily syncretized with Buddhism too), and then put these 4 religions into their own "Taoic" group, while the remaining Buddhist religions would go into the Dharmic group. Taoic religions that accept Buddhist sects then would go on having very high acceptance of Buddhist religions, and vice versa specifically Buddhist religions would have high tolerance of Taoic ones. But I don't think that the devs might want to redesign the whole religion of East Asia all over again.

I definitely don't envy having to design such a religiously messy region while having all kinds of contradictory proposals being thrown at you, each having at least some decent points.
 
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To be honest, I was somewhat confused when I read this dev diary.
It feels strange to treat the Sanjiao as a form of Buddhism and then list Confucianism as one of its sects.
It’s fine that the devs chose to represent all Eastern religions as varieties of Buddhism, but assigning Shinto and Bon as branches of Buddhism while relegating Confucianism and Daoism as sects of another branch feels inconsistent.
I think a clearer approach would be to merge the Sanjiao, Shinto, and Eastern Buddhist into Mahayana so that it stand alongside Theravada and Tibetan Buddhism at the same level. Then at the start of the game set Shinto as a Japanese Mahayana sect and set Confucianism and Daoism as Chinese Mahayana sects (perhaps also making Bon a Tibetan sect), and make these choices hard to change.
This only requires a few tweaks, defining certain faiths as sects to make Buddhism in the game much clearer.
 
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Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Wednesdays where we talk about Europa Universalis V!

Today, we will discuss the mechanics of Buddhism. In EUV, it is considered another Religious Group, like some that we saw previously, such as Christianity or Islam:

We will focus on the three main branches of pure Buddhism: Theravāda, Eastern Buddhism, and Tibetan Buddhism, which share the same core mechanics.

One aspect that all of these share is the presence of Karma as a currency. Karma, same as it was in EU4, can be modified by different factors, and gives different effects depending on its value:

Another very important aspect of Buddhist religions is the presence of various Buddhist Sects. Each religion has a variety of different sects, represented as International Organizations, and countries will belong to the sects of their own religion. Eastern Buddhism countries can belong to a maximum of 3 sects, while the rest of the religions allow for a maximum of a single sect.

Each sect has a value of Favor, representing the influence and support that sect has, as well as locations in which that sect is present. The sects also define themselves through a set of laws establishing their philosophy and teachings.

As long as sects have a high value of favor (over 60%), they will be able to expand their influence by adding more of their neighboring locations to the IO. Conversely, if sects have a low value of favor (less than 40%), they will start losing their locations. Sects will also lose locations if the dominant religion of the location is not the appropriate one. Sects can only gain or lose a single location at a time, though, so they will not completely disappear or extremely increase in size overnight, but it will be a gradual process.

Sects gain or lose favor depending not only on how many countries are part of the IO, but also from countries actively promoting or disfavoring them. A country can choose to favor or disfavor a single sect to affect its favor value, although that will also impact the effects that the country gets from the sect(s) it belongs to.

A country can also choose to leave a sect or to join a new one, but with some caveats. For once, a country will not be able to leave a sect it is part of as long as that sect has over 50% favor. So, if they want to leave that to join a new one, they will have to first make that favor decrease. To join a sect, a country must not already be at its maximum number of sects allowed, and the sect to join needs to be present in their territory or in the territory of an ally or a subject.

Let me now give a brief overview of the available sects.

Theravada Sects:

Eastern Buddhism Sects:
View attachment 1321045
You might notice here Confucianism and Daoism; we’ll talk more in-depth about them in the last block of the post, devoted to Sānjiào.

Tibetan Buddhism Sects:

Some of these Sects may be better known by other names, but we used more generic terms for them due to the fact that they are present in multiple countries:

Some of these schools have other special sets of teachings on top of the main ones, like the ones including Vajrayāna Tantric practices, giving some extra actions to the countries that belong to them.

There are also two other Buddhist religions I want to talk about, which were pending from previous Tinto Talks. For starters, let’s talk once again about Shintō. As mentioned in its own Tinto Talks, Shintō countries have the ability to Favor Buddhist Schools, and mentioned that that action gives them access to interact with the general Buddhist mechanics. That means that when performing this action, they will gain the same abilities related to the sects, with some costs associated with that:

They will thus be able to join the sects of Eastern Buddhism, although they can only join one, with some extra specifically Japanese sects:

As an extra note related to the Japanese sects, Jōdo Shinshū will also be created as an additional one during the course of the game.

Another religion in the Buddhist group I want to mention (and that some of you have already noticed) is the new religion we have implemented in China, which we have named Sānjiào, something we did after careful consideration, from the feedback received in Tinto Maps. This is to represent the particular blend of Buddhism, Confucianism, and Daoism (together with many other folk beliefs) that has formed and coexisted in China for centuries. As such, a country following Sānjiào will automatically belong to the Confucianism and Daoism Sects, and they will get both the Righteousness and Harmony currencies. On top of that, they will be able to join one extra sect of Eastern Buddhism:

As you can see, these enable two special currencies: Righteousness and Harmony respectively:

And that’s all for today! Tomorrow, there will be a post about the process behind the Audio and the OST of the game, while on Friday’s Tinto Flavour, we will take a look at Majapahit!

And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
I feel like Chinese flavour has been lost as now you can not swap away from Daoism and Confucianism, as other Eastern Buddhism nations can. And you will need to convert locations to your religion
 
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What makes Sānjiào not a direct upgrade to Eastern Buddhism?
Not an upgrade:
1. you have lost the ability to alter the timeline and remove Daoism for example. You are locked behind it
2. you will need to convert Korea for example if you conquer them. But religion was not that different (and before both China and Korea were eastern Buddhist nations)
 
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(I should be working but this TT completely ruined my schedule lmao)

There's a lot in this TT and it got me confused in some parts, but let me try to summarize the mechanics here first:

-We have the Buddhism religious group, with seven religions (Bon, Eastern Buddhism, Shinto, Theravada, Sammitiya, Tibetan Buddhism, Sanjiao)[1].
-All of them have Monasteries Allowed[2] and the Karma mechanic.
-Each religion has a list of available Sects[3]. Eastern Buddhism can adopt three Sects at the same time, while the others can only adopt one[4].
-Each Sect has Favor, a global value that represents its support and influence.[5] Each Sect also has a single Law, which determines its modifiers. Some Sects also have extra sets of Laws, like Tantric Practices representing Vajrayana, which adds new Religious Actions to the religion.
-Sects gain or lose Favor depending on how many countries are part of their IO, but also if they're being actively Promoted or Disfavored. At >60% Favor, they start gaining Locations, at <40% Favor, they start losing Locations.[6]
-To Join a Sect, it needs to have a presence in your territory, or in the territory of an ally or subject (Favor is irrelevant). To Leave a Sect, it needs to have <50% Favor (Territory is irrelevant).[7]
-Sects have a base modifier, then a modifier if Disfavored, then a modifier if any other Sect is Promoted[8].
-Theravada has four sects: Burmese Buddhism, Khmer Buddhism[9], Lankavong[10], Mahavihara[11].
-Eastern Buddhism has eleven sects: Azhaliism, Confucianism, Daoism, Dharma School[12], Flower Garland School[13], Mantra School[14], Meditation School[15], Mulasarvastivada[16], Musok[17], Pure Land Buddhism, Tiantai[18].
-Tibetan Buddhism has five[19] sects: Jonang, Kadam, Kagyu, Nyingma, Sakya.
-Shinto has a Religious Action called "Favor Buddhist Schools", which lets them utilize Sects.
-Shinto has ten[20] Sects: Confucianism, Dharma School, Flower Garland School, Mantra School, Meditation School, Nichiren, Pure Land Buddhism, Shugendo, Tendai and Jodo Shinshu[21].
-Sanjiao is the religion in China proper. It automatically belongs to the Confucianism and Daoism Sects[22], and can Join one extra Sect of Eastern Buddhism[23].

With that said, here are my questions:

1) What is the reasoning for their names? Tibetan Buddhism could be Nangchos, Sanjiao could be Three Teachings, Eastern Buddhism could be Mahayana, Theravada could be South Eastern Buddhism. But now we have this mish-mash of languages.
2) All the religions have Monasteries Allowed. What does it do again (no seriously, I forgot and can't find anything on it)?
3) What does determine the available Sects? Can non-Korean tags adopt Musok (Korean Shamanism)?
4) How many Sects can Sanjiao adopt?
5a) Support from whom, exactly? The populace? Is it actually global, or religion-based (does Confucianism has a single value for all religions that allow it)?
5b) Why isn't this mechanic represented by BBCs controlling monasteries?
6a) Will Sects of other religions spread in the country and gain Favor? If yes, can you Promote/Disfavor them, or will they just stay there being a nuisance? If you just leave a Sect alone, no matter their favor, do they affect you in any way?
6b) Can we rename Promote/Disfavor to Promote/Discourage? Favor is already used in this very mechanic for something else.
7) Are there consequences in the Locations upon changing Sects? Like, getting increased/decreased Local Revolt in the Locations?
8) The tooltip is honestly confusing. Do the modifiers add up? Do they swap? What about Eastern Buddhism where you Join more than one Sect?
9) What makes those two mere Sects instead of proper religions?
10a) Wikipedia says Lankavong is the Thai name for the Sinhalese Mahavihara sect. So why isn't it just "Sinhalese Buddhism", and why is it split from Mahavihara?
10b) Actually wait, why does it use the Thai name if it's Sinhalese? Is it unique to Thailand? Is it meant to represent Thai Buddhism? So why isn't it Thai Buddhism instead? Or rather, why isn't it a separate Thai Buddhism religion?
11) Wikipedia says Mahavihara is the term for a great vihara, which is a "centre of learning or a Buddhist monastery". Why is this a Sect, exactly?
12) Lmao ok, what *is* this. Is it Yogacara? I can't even google it without being redirected to some British school. Surely this deserves a less generic name...
13) Ok I recognize this one, it's Huayan. But I fail to understand why it deserves a generic name.
14) But this one is...? Chinese Esoteric? Vajrayana? A third, secret thing?
15) And this one's Chan. Is it possible to have unique localization depending on country/culture?
16) Sanskrit jumpscare. What is an early school doing here, and in Eastern Buddhism, of all places? Wikipedia is kinda terse on this and implies this is related to Tibetan Buddhism, not Eastern. And why is it using a non-anglicized name?
17) A repeat of 3, but who can adopt Musok? Does its tooltip make it clear that it's not a proper Buddhist sect but rather "Korean Folk" that's been syncretized into local Buddhism?
18) Why is it Tiantai and not Dharma Flower, if the school also existed in Japan and Korea?
19) Are we getting Gelug? I believe so, but you didn't mention it.
20) Is it ten or fifteen? Why are there five greyed out Sects?
21) Why does Japan have both Pure Land and Jodo Shinshu?
22) Are these two permalocked?
23) So they can choose two Sects from Eastern Buddhism?
24a) The tooltips here are also very confusing. *Who* has access to Righteousness and Harmony? Is it Sanjiao, or the two Sects? If it's Sanjiao, why add it to the Sects? If it's the Sects, why add it to Sanjiao?
24b) Actually what *is* the point of splitting Sanjiao and Eastern Buddhism? Did the latter have not a need to follow Confucianism and Daoism, even though its tooltip clearly says the Chinese Canon forms the bases for Eastern Buddhism?


Mind you, I am not versed in Buddhism, it's not exactly a popular religion where I live, so what I know is very limited to anedoctes and whatever Wikipedia may offer. If Paradox has some proper researchers/devouts/nerds on Buddhism, I'd love to hear the reasoning applied in these decisions.
 
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To be honest, I was somewhat confused when I read this dev diary.
It feels strange to treat the Sanjiao as a form of Buddhism and then list Confucianism as one of its sects.
It’s fine that the devs chose to represent all Eastern religions as varieties of Buddhism, but assigning Shinto and Bon as branches of Buddhism while relegating Confucianism and Daoism as sects of another branch feels inconsistent.
I think a clearer approach would be to merge the Sanjiao, Shinto, and Eastern Buddhist into Mahayana so that it stand alongside Theravada and Tibetan Buddhism at the same level. Then at the start of the game set Shinto as a Japanese Mahayana sect and set Confucianism and Daoism as Chinese Mahayana sects (perhaps also making Bon a Tibetan sect), and make these choices hard to change.
This only requires a few tweaks, defining certain faiths as sects to make Buddhism in the game much clearer.
I agree

Technically it will be what was implemented before (at least with China). I feel like people just didn’t know about mechanics of Buddhism, and now at least my opinion has switched. And I don’t understand why developers did change it

Sometimes it’s better stick with a vision
 
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Not an upgrade:
1. you have lost the ability to alter the timeline and remove Daoism for example. You are locked behind it
2. you will need to convert Korea for example if you conquer them. But religion was not that different (and before both China and Korea were eastern Buddhist nations)
Ok but you get Daeoism and Confusianism for free in addition to whatever third school you choose. I guess you loose out on Karma mechanics and tolerance of heretics? Still feels like it's mostly an upgrade once your population is converted.
 
Ok but you get Daeoism and Confusianism for free in addition to whatever third school you choose. I guess you loose out on Karma mechanics and tolerance of heretics? Still feels like it's mostly an upgrade once your population is converted.
You get them either way.
With eastern Buddism you started with those two already picked for you

But you had the ability to switch. And now you don’t have it

It is a downgrade
 
I am joining the calls for splitting up Eastern Buddhism entirely if Sānjiào has been removed. This isn't saying that Sānjiào was the wrong move, only that the new solution is inconsistent for all the other countries.

From a game design perspective only, there is now just a China-shaped hole where the religion would have been before the original idea was altered. The unified Eastern Buddhism idea clearly had China as its cornerstone, and now that's gone and it's just awkward.

In particular, the Korean 'Eastern Buddhist' remnant sticking out between China and Japan is the most strange when they had the most fierce anti-Buddhist policies of those countries in the game's timespan.

So as long as Sānjiào will be a thing I believe the only consistent solution is to split up Eastern Buddhism entirely into Korean, Vietnamese, Indonesian, northwestern Chinese, etc. variations.
 
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I am joining the calls for splitting up Eastern Buddhism entirely if Sānjiào has been removed. This isn't saying that Sānjiào was the wrong move, only that the new solution is inconsistent for all the other countries.

From a game design perspective only, there is now just a China-shaped hole where the religion would have been before the original idea was altered. The unified Eastern Buddhism idea clearly had China as its cornerstone, and now that's gone and it's just awkward.

In particular, the Korean 'Eastern Buddhist' remnant sticking out between China and Japan is the most strange when they had the most fierce anti-Buddhist policies of those countries in the game's timespan.

So as long as Sānjiào will be a thing I believe the only consistent solution is to split up Eastern Buddhism entirely into Korean, Vietnamese, Indonesian, northwestern Chinese, etc. variations.
Sānjiào and Shinto both make the whole setup very odd since they're really just Chinese and Japanese versions of "Eastern Buddhism", syncretic with the local faiths. Thing is this describes basically every country under the Eastern Buddhism umbrella so it's odd for China and Japan to be singled out like this.
 
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(I should be working but this TT completely ruined my schedule lmao)

There's a lot in this TT and it got me confused in some parts, but let me try to summarize the mechanics here first:

-We have the Buddhism religious group, with seven religions (Bon, Eastern Buddhism, Shinto, Theravada, Sammitiya, Tibetan Buddhism, Sanjiao)[1].
-All of them have Monasteries Allowed[2] and the Karma mechanic.
-Each religion has a list of available Sects[3]. Eastern Buddhism can adopt three Sects at the same time, while the others can only adopt one[4].
-Each Sect has Favor, a global value that represents its support and influence.[5] Each Sect also has a single Law, which determines its modifiers. Some Sects also have extra sets of Laws, like Tantric Practices representing Vajrayana, which adds new Religious Actions to the religion.
-Sects gain or lose Favor depending on how many countries are part of their IO, but also if they're being actively Promoted or Disfavored. At >60% Favor, they start gaining Locations, at <40% Favor, they start losing Locations.[6]
-To Join a Sect, it needs to have a presence in your territory, or in the territory of an ally or subject (Favor is irrelevant). To Leave a Sect, it needs to have <50% Favor (Territory is irrelevant).[7]
-Sects have a base modifier, then a modifier if Disfavored, then a modifier if any other Sect is Promoted[8].
-Theravada has four sects: Burmese Buddhism, Khmer Buddhism[9], Lankavong[10], Mahavihara[11].
-Eastern Buddhism has eleven sects: Azhaliism, Confucianism, Daoism, Dharma School[12], Flower Garland School[13], Mantra School[14], Meditation School[15], Mulasarvastivada[16], Musok[17], Pure Land Buddhism, Tiantai[18].
-Tibetan Buddhism has five[19] sects: Jonang, Kadam, Kagyu, Nyingma, Sakya.
-Shinto has a Religious Action called "Favor Buddhist Schools", which lets them utilize Sects.
-Shinto has ten[20] Sects: Confucianism, Dharma School, Flower Garland School, Mantra School, Meditation School, Nichiren, Pure Land Buddhism, Shugendo, Tendai and Jodo Shinshu[21].
-Sanjiao is the religion in China proper. It automatically belongs to the Confucianism and Daoism Sects[22], and can Join one extra Sect of Eastern Buddhism[23].

With that said, here are my questions:

1) What is the reasoning for their names? Tibetan Buddhism could be Nangchos, Sanjiao could be Three Teachings, Eastern Buddhism could be Mahayana, Theravada could be South Eastern Buddhism. But now we have this mish-mash of languages.
2) All the religions have Monasteries Allowed. What does it do again (no seriously, I forgot and can't find anything on it)?
3) What does determine the available Sects? Can non-Korean tags adopt Musok (Korean Shamanism)?
4) How many Sects can Sanjiao adopt?
5a) Support from whom, exactly? The populace? Is it actually global, or religion-based (does Confucianism has a single value for all religions that allow it)?
5b) Why isn't this mechanic represented by BBCs controlling monasteries?
6a) Will Sects of other religions spread in the country and gain Favor? If yes, can you Promote/Disfavor them, or will they just stay there being a nuisance? If you just leave a Sect alone, no matter their favor, do they affect you in any way?
6b) Can we rename Promote/Disfavor to Promote/Discourage? Favor is already used in this very mechanic for something else.
7) Are there consequences in the Locations upon changing Sects? Like, getting increased/decreased Local Revolt in the Locations?
8) The tooltip is honestly confusing. Do the modifiers add up? Do they swap? What about Eastern Buddhism where you Join more than one Sect?
9) What makes those two mere Sects instead of proper religions?
10a) Wikipedia says Lankavong is the Thai name for the Sinhalese Mahavihara sect. So why isn't it just "Sinhalese Buddhism", and why is it split from Mahavihara?
10b) Actually wait, why does it use the Thai name if it's Sinhalese? Is it unique to Thailand? Is it meant to represent Thai Buddhism? So why isn't it Thai Buddhism instead? Or rather, why isn't it a separate Thai Buddhism religion?
11) Wikipedia says Mahavihara is the term for a great vihara, which is a "centre of learning or a Buddhist monastery". Why is this a Sect, exactly?
12) Lmao ok, what *is* this. Is it Yogacara? I can't even google it without being redirected to some British school. Surely this deserves a less generic name...
13) Ok I recognize this one, it's Huayan. But I fail to understand why it deserves a generic name.
14) But this one is...? Chinese Esoteric? Vajrayana? A third, secret thing?
15) And this one's Chan.
16) Sanskrit jumpscare. What is an early school doing here, and in Eastern Buddhism, of all places? Wikipedia is kinda terse on this and implies this is related to Tibetan Buddhism, not Eastern. And why is it using a non-anglicized name?
17) A repeat of 3, but who can adopt Musok? Does its tooltip make it clear that it's not a proper Buddhist sect but rather "Korean Folk" that's been syncretized into local Buddhism?
18) Why is it Tiantai and not Dharma Flower, if the school also existed in Japan and Korea?
19) Are we getting Gelug? I believe so, but you didn't mention it.
20) Is it ten or fifteen? Why are there five greyed out Sects?
21) Why does Japan have both Pure Land and Jodo Shinshu?
22) Are these two permalocked?
23) So they can choose two Sects from Eastern Buddhism?
24a) The tooltips here are also very confusing. *Who* has access to Righteousness and Harmony? Is it Sanjiao, or the two Sects? If it's Sanjiao, why add it to the Sects? If it's the Sects, why add it to Sanjiao?
24b) Actually what *is* the point of splitting Sanjiao and Eastern Buddhism? Did the latter have not a need to follow Confucianism and Daoism, even though its tooltip clearly says the Chinese Canon forms the bases for Eastern Buddhism?


Mind you, I am not versed in Buddhism, it's not exactly a popular religion where I live, so what I know is very limited to anedoctes and whatever Wikipedia may offer. If Paradox has some proper researchers/devouts/nerds on Buddhism, I'd love to hear the reasoning applied in these decisions.
I do want to say that a lot of sects exist in multiple countries and are distinct in each respective country. In the English language it makes sense to use the Korean, Chinese, Japanese, etc names for the sect from their respective countries. So there would be Chan, Zen, Seon etc to represent all the different forms of Dhyana. I prefer that granularity and I greatly appreciate seeing it from the dev team. Also, just because a school is within another school doesn't mean it shouldn't exist or should be removed. For example, Jodo Shinshu is a specific sect of Pureland, not an exact equivalent. I'd rather have it than not have it. More inclusive is better in my view and they can build on all of these sects over time.

Also also those buttons were grayed out because they're unselectable, I guess some sects are either region locked or culture locked.

Edit: If I may beg the devs for just one more sect for Vietnam.
 
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While I'm glad the name was changed to Sanjiao, I am still disappointed as this is what I feared: that the Chinese religion would be primarily defined by Buddhism rather than Confucianism. It wasn't just about the name, but the content, and Confucian philosophy is the throughline that ties together other parts of Chinese religion.
 
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I do want to say that a lot of sects exist in multiple countries and are distinct in each respective country. In the English language it makes sense to use the Korean, Chinese, Japanese, etc names for the sect from their respective countries. So there would be Chan, Zen, Seon etc to represent all the different forms of Dhyana. I prefer that granularity and I greatly appreciate seeing it from the dev team. Also, just because a school is within another school doesn't mean it shouldn't exist or should be removed. For example, Jodo Shinshu is a specific sect of Pureland, not an exact equivalent. I'd rather have it than not have it. More inclusive is better in my view and they can build on all of these sects over time.

Also also those buttons were grayed out because they're unselectable, I guess some sects are either region locked or culture locked.

Edit: If I may beg the devs for just one more sect for Vietnam.

I'm sorry, but what granularity? They are using generic names for the multi-country sects instead of splitting them.
 
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I suggest changing Goryeo from Eastern Buddhism to "Bulgyo", another religion of the Buddhist group, like Shinto in Japan or Sanjiao in China.

View attachment 1321226

Buddhism, which was deeply rooted in Goryeo, like the Sanjiao of China, is a religion developed and formed by absorbing the traditional beliefs and folk beliefs of the korea Three Kingdoms, beginning centuries ago in Goguryeo, Baekje, and Silla.

Currently, it seems that "Eastern Buddhism" is a Buddhist denomination shared by countries like Vietnam and those in the Indonesian region, in addition to Goryeo.

I think this aspect can harm the gameplay immersion.

Historically, the Buddhism of Goryeo does not align with the Buddhist traditions of Vietnam and Indonesia. and more.

Of course, you can also adapt Goryeo Buddhism to Eastern Buddhism for the balance of the game.

However, I and other Korean players feel regret.

I earnestly ask the developers,

Please change Goryeo from Eastern Buddhism to "Bulgyo" , another religion of the Buddhist group, like Shinto in Japan or Sanjiao in China.

Furthermore, the following could be the sects for Goryeo Bulgyo:

Confucianism유교 (儒敎)
Daoism도교 (道敎)
Jogye Order조계종 (曹溪宗)
Chongji Order총지종 (摠持宗)
Cheontae Order천태종 (天台宗)
Cheontaesoja Order천태소자종 (天台小滋宗)
Cheontaebeopsa Order천태법사종 (天台法師宗)
Hwaeom Order화엄종 (華嚴宗)
Domun Order도문종 (道門宗)
Jaeun Orde자은종 (慈恩宗)
Jungdo Order중도종 (中道宗)
Sinin Order신인종 (神印宗)
Namsan Order남산종 (南山宗)
Siheung Order시흥종 (始興宗)
Musok무속 (巫俗)

Also, I think that countries that believe in Buddhism, such as Vietnam and Thailand, should have Buddhism that fits their cultural traditions like Shinto in Japan or Sanjiao in China.
I think it’s wonderful to add more regionally distinctive flavours. However, would it be possible to refer to Korean Peninsula Buddhism by a name other than Bulgyo? As I understand it, Bulgyo is simply the Korean reading of the two Chinese characters for ‘Buddhism’ (佛教), and although I’m not an expert in Korean, I believe that in Korean — as in Japanese (Bukkyō) — there’s no clear distinction between Theravāda, Mahāyāna, or Tibetan Buddhism: they’re all generally referred to as Bulgyo. This is also true of Fójiào in Mandarin and Phật giáo in Vietnamese. While this might be fine in English, I feel that in the Korean, Japanese, Chinese, or Vietnamese versions, it could be difficult to distinguish it from the general term for Buddhism as a whole.
 
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It is a lazy way to lump all the major religions in the eastern continental part of Asia into Buddhism.
As I said in the previous version, when you count all of these as Buddhism, how do you explain the suppression and elimination of Buddhism in the early days of the Ming Dynasty and the Joseon Dynasty? Are we going to see Buddhist groups persecuting themselves?
Under the present system you could see Ming and Korea, as Sanjiao countries, stop supporting any Buddhist sects and having a very low tolerance of heretics.
This would result in any Buddhist sect IO's shrinking in the countries' locations and represent governmental intolerance of alternative religious practices respectively.