• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Stellaris Dev Diary #62: Government, Civics and Hive Minds

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is going to be about the Government Rework, the last of the major feature reworks coming in 1.5 'Banks' and some related features in the 'Utopia' expansion.

Government Rework (Free Feature)
With the focus of Banks and Utopia being ethics, internal politics and empire customization, we felt it would be remiss of us not to put in some work in regards to governments. While the old government grid worked alright to give you a broad range of governments to pick from, they were a bit lackluster, not very well balanced and I rarely felt that the government I picked truly corresponded to my own idea of what my empire's society was like. To address all of these issues at once we decided to go back to the drawing board and redo the way governments are constructed completely. In Banks, instead of picking from a preconfigured government, you build your own from Authority and Civics.

The Authority determines how power is transfered in your government. The different Authorities are:
Democratic: A ruler is democratically elected every 10 years.
Oligarchic: A ruler is elected every 40 to 50 years.
Dictatorial: Rulers are elected but rule for life.
Imperial: Rulers rule for life and are succeeded by appointed heirs on death.

In all systems that involve elections, leaders will be elected from the different Factions in your country, and electing a ruler of a particular Faction will significantly strengthen the political clout of that faction and the attraction of their related ethics, so be careful about letting a Xenophile take charge of your Supremacist Empire!
2017_02_23_3.png


The Civics represent the political and social traditions of your government, and come in a wide variety of types, primarily limited by your authority and ethics. In addition to providing modifiers, they can also change how your empire is governed. For example, the Citizen Service Civic ties citizenship to military service, so that only species with Full Military Service are afforded the right to vote and become leaders. On empire creation, you can choose two Civics, with a third able to be unlocked later through research.
2017_02_23_3_5.png


With a few exceptions (more on that below), Civics and Authorities are not necessarily permanent. Where previously you could change your government type for 250 influence, you now have the option to effectively rebuild your government at the same cost. By using the 'Reform Government' button in the government screen, you can add and remove Civics and change Authority from among the picks available to your ethics. As your Ethics and Authority change, you may end up with Civics that are no longer valid for you country - for example a 'Beacon of Liberty' that has lost its Egalitarian ethics. When this happens, the Civic in question will remain, but will become 'inactive' and stop providing you with any sort of bonus, effectively a wasted Civic slot until you reform your government and replace it.
2017_02_23_4.png


From the Authority, Civics and Ethics you pick, a Government Name is finally generated. The Government Name is purely there to roughly summarize the government you have built, as well as provide flavor, and has no actual impact on gameplay.
2017_02_23_6.png


Advanced Civics (Paid Feature)
In addition to the normal Civics available to everyone, there are also a few special Civics that are only available to those with the Utopia expansion. These Civics are meant to simulate very specific kinds of societies and generally have more of an impact on your game than the normal Civics do. They are as follows:
  • Syncretic Evolution: Your species evolved along with another, subservient species. A second species is randomly generated on your homeworld replacing some of your primary species' Pops. They always have the Proles (rebalanced in Banks) and Strong traits, making them excellent soldiers and workers but less ideal for intellectual pursuits. This Civic provides no additional benefits and cannot be removed once picked.
  • Mechanist: Your species is obsessed with the pursuit of robotics. This Civic requires you to be Materialist and has you start with the Robotic Workers and Powered Exoskeletons technologies and a population of worker robots to do the farming and mining for you, replacing some of your primary species' Pops. This Civic provides no additional benefits and cannot be removed once picked.
  • Fanatic Purifiers: Your empire will not tolerate the existance of any other sentient life. This Civic requires you to be Fanatic Xenophobe/Militarist and gives very large boosts to the effectiveness of your military and gives you Unity from purging Xeno Pops, but disables all diplomacy with other species and forces all Xeno Pops in your empire to be purged (though you get to choose the method of extermination). All other regular empires will also have a massive relations malus with you, the one and only exception being Fanatic Purifiers from the same species.
2017_02_23_8.png


Hive Minds (Paid Feature)
In addition to the Advanced Civics, those with the Utopia expansion also get access to a unique Authority with a highly unique playstyle: the Hive Mind. Hive Minds are species where the individuals are all part of the same, vast, psionically linked consciousness. The Immortal Hive Mind rules absolutely over the population of non-sentient worker drones, using sentient 'Autonomous Drones' (Leaders) to extend the reach of its will. Picking the Hive Mind Authority requires the Hive Mind Ethic and each can only be picked together with the other: With only one, vast and linked consciousness, the guiding values of a Hive Mind is whatever the Hive Mind player wants it to be. They have their own set of Civics that can only be used by Hive Minds, and cannot use any non-Hive Mind Civics.
2017_02_23_9.png

2017_02_23_11.png


All Pops from the founder species of a Hive Mind will have the Hive-Minded trait. Hive-Minded Pops are not affected by Happiness and will never form Factions, allowing Hive Minds to completely ignore internal politics... though this comes as a cost, as they also cannot benefit from the Influence boost and other benefits provided by happy Factions in a regular empire. As Hive Minds rely completely on their ability to communicate psionically with the drone population, they are also unable to rule over non Hive-Minded Pops, and any such Pops in your empire will automatically be killed over time and processed into food to feed the Hive. Similarly, Hive-Minded pops that end up in non Hive Mind empires will be cut off from the Hive and will perish over time. The only way to integrate Pops between Hive Minds and non-Hive Minds is to use the Biological Ascension Path to unlock advanced gene modding and modify them by adding or removing Hive-Minded (more on this in the next dev diary). However, Hive Minds can still coexist with other species: They have full access to diplomacy and can have non-Hive Mind subjects (and can be ruled over as subjects in turn), though non-Hive Mind empires tend to be somewhat distrustful of Hive Minds on first contact.
2017_02_23_12.png


While Hive Minds are psionic by nature, the way they function and their connection to the Shroud is radically different from that of regular psychics, making them unable to follow the Psionic Ascension Path. Furthermore, Hive Minds are deeply biological entities, and fundamentally incompatible with the Synthetic Ascension Path. They are however perfectly suited for the Biological Ascension Path, and can make use of it to assimilate other, non-Hive Mind species into the Hive as described above.

That's all for today! Next week we'll be talking about the Biological and Synthetic Ascension Paths. See you then!
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:
You're sounding a LOT like the way Trump supporters and right wing people complain about political correctness, just saying.
You dont even make sense. All i said is that BlackUmbrellas debates semantics, while ignoring the meaning others put into the word. You can't define words because you want to. Words shift their meaning depending on the way they are used by the vast majority, it's basic linguistics.
 
You dont even make sense. All i said is that BlackUmbrellas debates semantics, while ignoring the meaning others put into the word. You can't define words because you want to. Words shift their meaning depending on the way they are used by the vast majority, it's basic linguistics.
They make perfect sense- your argument is basically "Why are you bringing facts into this discussion? Science is irrelevant, people feel like the word means something so it does!".
 
I hate to say it, but you're overestimating people.

Pop culture shapes popular consciousness and the common understanding of what words mean, sure- but it doesn't always reflect reality. In fact, pop culture encourages a lot of blatantly untrue assumptions about the way the world works.

Pop culture is obsessed with the idea of the fiction of hive minds, and so applies the term in places where it doesn't belong, and in so doing shapes how people understand the world. Many people do believe that a bee hive or an ant colony is a hive mind where the queen controls all the workers- it's not true.

So, sorry, but I'm gonna keep this as a sticking point. IRL eusocial animals =/= hive minds.

I dont overestimate people. People just use a shorter term because people are lazy and it's easier for them to memorize and write "hive mind". And I don't know where you find those "many people" who believe that the queen controls all the workers, because the fact that insects are not controlled but instead sort of "hard wired" by their biology to act in a certain way is taught at schools.
 
They make perfect sense- your argument is basically "Why are you bringing facts into this discussion? Science is irrelevant, people feel like the word means something so it does!".
My argument is that you don't understand what other people mean by using that term and instead you focus on the word itself. The meaning is the same, but you are blind to that, because you want others to use your personal vocabulary.
 
Well dang Kids this pack just keeps getting better hahahahah can't wait
 
I don't get the robots immiscibility with psionics theme. It seems to be just pointless flavor.

It's not "pointless flavour"- it's worldbuilding in service of developer expediency. The event chain text for the Psionic and Synthetic Ascensions are, presumably, simply incompatible with the text for Hive Minds. They'd have to double their work re-writing stuff to fit that fringe case.

Furthermore, there are probably balance concerns to take into consideration.

Making an in-universe explanation for why it's not available is better than it being purely mechanical in nature.

The Devs just are following a pretty common path within modern sci-fi where organic and synthetic life are set as thesis and antithesis where each of them contains some abilitys which are fundamentaly unique to each other.

For example in the famous Mass Effect series the so called "biotic abilitys" were exclusive to biological or at least partially organic creatures. Pure program/robot like beings like the Geth didnt had acess to it.

In Gene Roddenberrys Andromeda (yes I know how bad the last season was) we got a similar thing with the manouvering within the "slip stream" (a extreme fast FTL method where the pilot has to manouver among the natural streams within a special kind of hyperspace) was only possible for organics. Inorganic beings at least had to capture and and link themselfes to a biological brain to gain acess to some sort of special "intuition".

The Devs also I think want to build a world and a very loose lore for their universe at least.

And it is no bad thing to adapt this pretty common approach of organic vs synthetic dilemma.

As we dont need or want a total new reinvention of the wheel for the stellaris I think. We dont want the devs to write a new inovative sci-fi novel. So I think its nothing bad to implement the best parts of famous and known sci-fi elements.

Only thing bouthers me that the dont followed up Hegel and created even its just only oder special circumstances possibil. A SYNTHESIS.

Maybe we should have the devs settle this argument.

@Wiz @Zoft Do you guys at Paradox, does eusocial = hivemind or does eusocial =/= hivemind?

Though they probably won't answer until Monday.

I dont think the Devs should determine the ultimativ meaning of that work then to be honest both sides do have points but in the end it is you over/underestermine regular people.






And I am still thinking how I can pull of my Twelve Colonies/ Cylons playthrough ( mostly synthetic spiritual beings)
Maybe starting out with machinists and materialists and then switching my government ethic? Would that be even possible to that extent.
I am realy open to suggestion maybe some of the species which seem to be not playable are in fact doable with a bit RP and good amounf fantasy and imaginations and alot of micromanagment.
 
Last edited:
I dont think the Devs should determine the ultimativ meaning of that work then to be honest both sides do have points but in the end it is yoh over/underestermine regular people.

You accidentially duplicated the text in your post, somehow, just letting you know. And I was trying to offer a compromise to the argument, or at least just get the devs input.
 
I am still thinking how I can pull of my Twelve Colonies/ Cylons playthrough ( mostly synthetic spiritual beings)
Maybe starting out with machinists and materialists and then switching my government ethic? Would that be even possible to that extent.
I am realy open to suggestion maybe some of the species which seem to be not playable are in fact doable with a bit RP and good amounf fantasy and imaginations.
I feel like you could organically play out a fairly similar scenario by relying heavily on Synth labour and then embracing Spiritualist factions and switching it in for a core Ethos- your populace will get really unhappy with those robots, and depending on circumstances you could easily end up with rebellions on worlds and a bunch of planets wanting independance led by the Synths.
 
I feel like you could organically play out a fairly similar scenario by relying heavily on Synth labour and then embracing Spiritualist factions and switching it in for a core Ethos- your populace will get really unhappy with those robots, and depending on circumstances you could easily end up with rebellions on worlds and a bunch of planets wanting independance led by the Synths.

And then after the empire as restabilized I might have my Clyons praying to their one true god and then step by step will get rid of thier creators.

Well that I think is the only way to get psychonic synths without mods who lessens the rigid lockings of the ascension paths.
 
I would also like to see that the fanatical purifiers don't require you to have the militarist ethic, just so you can get some spiritualist Emperium of Man action in there aswell.

Unfortunately from the looks of things you can't have Gene Warriors (aka space marines) unless you take the Biological Ascension Path so no having the shroud and Gene Warriors together. Which is a let down in my opinion. I just hope we can mod it so I can have my fantasy of playing psionic Spartans!
 
Unfortunately from the looks of things you can't have Gene Warriors (aka space marines) unless you take the Biological Ascension Path so no having the shroud and Gene Warriors together. Which is a let down in my opinion. I just hope we can mod it so I can have my fantasy of playing psionic Spartans!
That's speculation. We don't know if the Genetics Path has the same restrictions on genetic techs as the Psionics one, or if it'll merely be an expansion to pre-existing genetic techs you can research freely.
 
Helpfully proving my point that "insects are hive minds" is an infective and inaccurate pop-culture meme that shapes how people think about IRL topics...

I don't get why everyone instantly assumes a hive-mind is similar to how they are with ants and bees. What's to say a advanced hive-mind doesn't have individuals in them? The idea that all hive-minds are just a singular leader and everyone follows in place without question is really limiting. Sure, sure everyone wants to think "Well an advanced Hive-Mind will just be like the Borg!" but it's a really limited way of thinking.

We're talking about a game that lets us play sentient plants and fungi, a game where an inter-dimensional worm turns the capital world of a space empire into a black hole and a game that has a teapot floating near a sun that could be from another dimension itself. Expand your mind on what something can be and don't just assume bees and borgs.
A shoal of fish is a collective of individuals, but does not 'share' a consciousness.
The same can be said of corals.

Ants, bees, wasps & termites are a collective where there is only 1 individuality .. the queens
all other entities within these social groupings exist purely to serve, protect & feed the queen
this is what defines the term 'hive mind'

a shared or conjoined consciousness (ie due to psionics, or cybernetics) does not mean it is a hive mind
the 2 are different and can be mutually exclusive
 
That's speculation. We don't know if the Genetics Path has the same restrictions on genetic techs as the Psionics one, or if it'll merely be an expansion to pre-existing genetic techs you can research freely.


Hm...Good point. I do hope you're right.

One thing I've been wondering though if they've fixed pretender civil wars as I never got a single one! Oh the pretender faction showed up and I left it alone for years and not once did I get a pretender civil war.
 
I was honestly completely surprised a few years ago when I learned that Queen Ants and such are basically just as much 'slave' as their drones are.
Yep. Like I've been saying- the pop-culture concept of what a "hive mind" is and how its "a bug thing" actively misinforms a lot of people and shapes their understanding of reality in erroneous ways. Which is a shame! The fact that individual ants and bees actually appear to have personalities that inform the roles they'll take in a hive is fascinating stuff and really far more interesting than some outdated pop-culture notion that they're all slaves to a queen that controls everything.

Ant civil wars are really cool to learn about.
 
Bees live in hives. They don't have a hive mind. Hive minds are an invention of fiction. Xenomorphs don't really have a "hive mind" so much as they're just euoscial parasitoid animals.

I frankly don't know what on Earth you're talking about. I've always thought that "hive mind" pretty much equaled "colonial insects" (which is basically what Xenomorphs are). It's in the name, for God's sakes, and pretty much all of the relevant terms involved in describing such societies - "drone," "queen," "hive," "warrior," "worker," etca - are borrowed from colonial insects as well.

All of the whoopity-doo psychic stuff is just fluff some science fiction writers tack onto the concept in order to jazz it up, and try to hand-wave away the logistics and mechanics of how such a society might be be able to function on an interplanetary or intersolar scale. It's hardly required, however. While it might involve a tad more leg work and intellectual effort on the creator's part, more mundane solutions can be derived for the problems mentioned above as well - an extended network of "command node" organisms, for example, serving as lieutenants for the main queen.

You're being overly ridgid in your thinking here; lacking in imagination.
 
Last edited:
Helpfully proving my point that "insects are hive minds" is an infective and inaccurate pop-culture meme that shapes how people think about IRL topics...

Again... I'm just about positive that the whole inspiration for the concept of a "hive mind" comes from colonial insects, and the manner in which they appear to completely disregard individuals in favor of essentially mindless, but well-coordinated, group survival focused around a centralized hub.

What you're talking about here is more niche; basically the whole Asimov/Clarke style "giant conglomerated psychic consciousness" bit. While I'll grant you that is certainly one variation on the concept, it's not the only one.
 
Last edited:
It's not "pointless flavour"- it's ...
Pointless flavor. Mechanics should support the story, and there's just no mechanics why these two things shouldn't mix other than flavor that I can't have spiritual mech builders.

Which is something that can be disagreed with. Disagreeing that I don't get it is needlessly stupid and not respectful.
 
Pointless flavor. Mechanics should support the story, and there's just no mechanics why these two things shouldn't mix other than flavor that I can't have spiritual mech builders.

Which is something that can be disagreed with. Disagreeing that I don't get it is needlessly stupid and not respectful.

Yeah... I feel pretty similar, TBH. Maybe this is just something with "game announcement" threads in particular, but all the fanatically super ridgid "the devs made it this way, SO IT MUST BE SO" posters, basically doing nothing but ganging up to shout down and down-vote anyone with a remotely new idea, do get to be kind of annoying.

Why so serious, guys? It's a game, not freaking religious dogma. Chill.
 
Last edited: