Echoes of A New Tomorrow: Life after Revolution in the Commonwealth of Britain

[Bullfilter]

I’m going to have to read more and comment a bit less if I’m ever to make real headway on the back catalogue, but, well, I can’t completely help myself

THE UGLY DEATH OF LABOUR BRITAIN
PART TWO

Mosley had no trouble getting around the country – or at least not from the workers. The Fascisti of course proved a nuisance wherever he went.

Another ATL irony.

Tony Benn, seen smoking his iconic pipe towards the end of the evening's programme.​

Of course!

Benn: “—you mean to say Fascisti paramilitaries?”

A Bennite intervention!

Just curious, was the election map from that chapter something invented purely for the narrative, or did it bear relation in any way to game play? Or by this stage, was it all new original narrative?

I may not comment on all the chapters I read from here, or I will never make up ground, but you will be able to track my progress by the ‘likes’.

 

[DensleyBlair]

Congratulations, Densley! Having just been through a move and the start of a new school program, I totally understand how much time that can eat up.

Thanks Cora!

Congratulations on your own move and starting of a new programme. Hope it's all working out well for you so far!

The former, certainly.

I only drop a rather English "Quite." when I'm on a ridiculous call for service.

When someone drops a 'quite', you know trouble is on the way…

I’m going to have to read more and comment a bit less if I’m ever to make real headway on the back catalogue, but, well, I can’t completely help myself

Always a pleasure to read your thoughts, @Bullfilter! I certainly won't begrudge you if you'd rather just read, but it is always lovely to hear your take on these older chapters.

A Bennite intervention!

If ever one existed!

Just curious, was the election map from that chapter something invented purely for the narrative, or did it bear relation in any way to game play? Or by this stage, was it all new original narrative?

Good question. The honest answer is I can't entirely remember. I think my thought process went something like: the major flashpoints of the revolutionary period (London, Liverpool, Glasgow, South Wales, Yorkshire, Tyneside) are more or less the 'likely suspects' – but they did all experience particularly heavy rebel presence in the game IIRC. From then on, I weaved a story that married these facts with what I thought would be historically likely, and a sort of internal logic ended up asserting itself in time for the elections.

As for the parties themselves, I can't remember what the regional breakdown looked like in game, but I will say the PLUA was an entirely non-gameplay invention. My guess is that the Tories probably won the election, as they sort of do in-universe, but very shortly after fell to the reds.

It's also probably worth mentioning the fact that rebellions in Victoria 2 are notoriously blunt instruments. There were something like 500k brigades in revolt by the time the country turned red, so they were all over the place – but especially on London, which being the capital is a sort of honeypot for rebel forces. The game doesn't give you much narrative flavour to work with, so pretty much all of the events of the revolution, except major dates, are my own fabrication.

I may not comment on all the chapters I read from here, or I will never make up ground, but you will be able to track my progress by the ‘likes’.

If I don't hear from you, then I will look forward to seeing you on the other side!


************************************


ALL: Apologies to those of you hoping this thread's revival may have hailed a new chapter. It does not – but I am glad to say that I have started work on my next part and with any luck I'll be able to finish it over the next few weeks. (For those who, like me, had forgotten where we were with things, the chapter will be titled "In Place of Strife: Lewis in the minority".) In recognition of the fact it's been months without anything like proper content, I'm aiming to cover a fair bit of ground over the next few instalments. In case you hadn't already guessed, some good old-fashioned 'interesting times' are on their way.

On a more useful note, I understand that the ACAs are back for Q3, once again run by @Nikolai. All of your favourite AARs to have been updated between July 1 and September 30 are eligible, and voting is open until Sunday 21 November. I will be attempting to get a ballot together as best I can shortly, and I urge all of you to do so as well. These things are always most fun when as many people as possible are represented.


*******

And so as not to leave you without anything of real substance while I am away at my writing desk, I thought I'd share some pictures I took a few weeks ago at a rally to mark the 85th anniversary of the Battle of Cable Street.

For those who don't know, the Battle of Cable Street took place on Sunday 4 October 1936, in response to plays by Oswald Mosley to lead a march right through the heart of what was at that time the Jewish East End of London. Somewhere in the order of 2–3 thousand Blackshirts from the British Union of Fascists turned up for the event. The Blackshirts were under protection from the Metropolitan Police, who themselves sent about 6–7 thousand officers to make sure that the march could proceed smoothly.

In response, an estimated 100 thousand anti-fascists – including anarchists, communists, socialists, trade unionists and, of course, members of the Jewish community themselves – arrived in the East End to confront the march. Most of the anti-fascist opposition was organised on the ground level, in direct contravention of orders from national parties and groups urging against a 'hands-on' approach to tackling fascism, preferring more 'civilised' methods than street fighting.

Nevertheless, using barricades, ingenious improvised missiles and, frankly, sheer numbers, the anti-fascist defence held out and the BUF never got anywhere near the East End. Their police stewards were routed and the Blackshirts did not pass.

(A fuller account, written by someone who was there, can be found here. I'd recommend it, even if it is a little too sympathetic to the CP for my tastes…)

In Echoes, Cable Street plays an important role as a battleground between the Reds and the Blackshirts, but it is less of the landmark that it is in our own history. All the same, I think it's always good to recall the real Mosley, and to recognise the amazing people who stood up to him and his allies. Thanks to them, British facism was stamped out in the mainstream before to had a chance to germinate.

Sadly, of course, this was not goodbye for good – and, as much as the rally the other week was about commemorating the events of 1936, there was also a strong sense of linking it to contemporary struggles. Here's a picture of of the speakers on stage, with a few motley banners thrown in. (Possible games to play with this one include "Spot the headline attractions" and "Spot the SWP fronts"…) The weather did not hold out, but the crowd stayed strong and a good number of people turned out to mark the occasion.

Around the corner, there is a mural showing the battle painted on the side of the town hall. I won't post an image of the whole thing owing to the presence of a few Nazi symbols within the composition, but it's well worth looking up. (This Guardian article is pretty good.) I do, however, have a photo of a detail of the CP/Independent Labour Party bloc:

A nice reminder of the black irony of Echoes, where some of these people end up being Mosley's closest allies in his rise to power…

As for what the man himself is up to in the mural? Well…

​

Where he belongs. (I'll let you all imagine for yourselves what is going on in the top left there…)

 

[Bullfilter]

OPERATION NIGHT FLIGHT

Well, here we go!

By quarter-past nine, just as the new government should have been starting its business, it had become apparent that parliament was under attack – and with little hope of reinforcement.

It‘s reminiscent of a British version of the storming of the Winter Palace, combined with various peasant revolts since the 15th century - but this time it succeeds!

Their discussions are interrupted at around quarter-past ten by news that some sections of the TA battalion have mutinied and defected to the workers’ cause.

Ditto.

unconditional surrender of the Cliveden Parliament, and the recognition of the Westminster Parliament as the only legitimate legislative body in Britain

Revolution! Undemocratic coup by armed thugs against a mix of legitimate troops and equivalent fascist thugs: what a horrible mess!

the first motion to be considered by the new Westminster Parliament: the abolition of the United Kingdom and the formation of the Workers’ Commonwealth of Britain

Yet Mosley and the little fellow-travelling coterie of the Communists have barely half the country behind them. Though that is more than Hitler had in 1933 and it proved enough for him. In the end, in political representation and moral authority, no one in this whole sorry situation has a plurality. Turbulent times lie ahead, I’m sure.

 

[DensleyBlair]

Well, here we go!

Very glad to read your thoughts on this pivotal chapter, @Bullfilter! My apologies for taking a little while to respond.

It‘s reminiscent of a British version of the storming of the Winter Palace, combined with various peasant revolts since the 15th century - but this time it succeeds!

A few people said this at the time, too. I remember it being a funny one to write, trying to balance the height of the stakes with the basic anti-climax of it all – a few possibly anecdotal flourishes (Churchill taking up a rifle, Astor passing out with shock…) adding what I hope was a bit of colour to an otherwise procedural storming (not my forte at all, writing these sorts of play-by-play military scenes).

In an ideal world I'd be able to show you an Eisenstein-esque film of the storming, of course. Such a film is actually described in a subsequent chapter about the beginnings of the Commonwealth's film industry, produced by the fascinating real-life figure Ivor Montagu:

A final word must be given to the work of Ivor Montagu during the period, who was instrumental in the founding of the London Film Society in the years before the revolution. An associate of both Hitchcock (for whom he did much post-production work) and Sergei Eisenstein in Russia, who revolutionised techniques of editing and montage, Montagu was a crucial innovator within early British cinema who did much to further the presence of independent and “art” films in the Commonwealth. He worked as a director in the 1930s, and as a member of the Communist Party himself was arguably given more room to manoeuvre with regard to his output. A trilogy of technically daring documentary films about the revolution – Bluebottles (1930), Exodus (1933) and Cliveden (1934) – were, to the surprise of many on the Board of Cinema, received enthusiastically by the attendant public, evidence of the broad tastes of many cinemagoers in the period. The extravagant montage and editing processes used by Montagu seemed to his audiences to reflect something of the building of the new world, recreated in motion-picture, and established his reputation as one of the chief recorders of this period of change. Taken as one body, Montagu’s “Revolutionary Trilogy” was arguably the first artistic masterpiece of the new British cinema, and the first evidence of an emergent, domestic cultural tendency able to challenge the supremacy of the Russian avant-garde.

A still from Ivor Montagu's Cliveden (1934) showing an allegorical, ahistorical scene in which workers flood down the steps towards the parterre at Cliveden.​

A terrible shame in my mind that we can never see the whole thing!

Revolution! Undemocratic coup by armed thugs against a mix of legitimate troops and equivalent fascist thugs: what a horrible mess!

'Democracy' and 'legitimacy' become very (or perhaps more accurately, especially) slippery words during times such as those described. In the minds of the workers, the 'regime' troops and representatives abdicated any legitimacy when they began killing strikers. And of course the 'regime' themselves are never going to accept this point of view. Without an external, neutral arbiter, who is to say definitively which side is right or wrong?

One of the joys, I hope, of telling stories like this is that such a judgement is impossible. Meaning everyone gets to fight it out amongst themselves…

Yet Mosley and the little fellow-travelling coterie of the Communists have barely half the country behind them. Though that is more than Hitler had in 1933 and it proved enough for him. In the end, in political representation and moral authority, no one in this whole sorry situation has a plurality. Turbulent times lie ahead, I’m sure.

Mosley is on phenomenally shaky ground. The early democratic systems of the Commonwealth – perhaps I should simply say 'government systems' – reflect this in their confused, contradictory attempts to forge something like a consensus while keeping itself secure – another impossible task, arguably. It is, I'm sure, no great spoiler to say that these conditions are absolutely ripe for exploitation by anyone so willing and able…


*******
ALL:

Just want to give a general update of my progress with the next chapter, on which I've been continuing work intermittently in between my job, my studies and the various other demands life makes upon one's time. I've written just shy of 3,000 words so far, ie the first section of the chapter, but I'm going to hold off publishing until I have all of the sections sorted. Seeing as its been a long time since I've published anything, I want to make sure I come back with something that both sustains the recent levels of detail I've been going into, but also pushes the timeline on by a decent amount. I'm hoping to take things up to the end of 1967 at least, and – unless it ends up running into a 5-figure word count – on into the spring of 1968. If I can pull it all off, this will take in a whole number of topics including: racism and anti-racism in the music cultures of London and elsewhere; the shifting threat posed by Enoch Powell, and other assorted racists; the formation and radicalisation of a 'youth movement'; the fate of the Aberfan report and the continued problems in the coal industry; the fate of Lewis's industrial reforms; escalating radicalisms and tensions in Wales; escalating radicalisms and tensions among the 'professional classes'; continued deadlock in parliament; and the recent activities of one John Wintringham Lennon.

So (I hope) plenty to look forward to.

I also wanted to say a heartfelt thanks to all who took the time to vote for Echoes in the recent ACAs. Having barely been active during the last quarter, a second-place finish feels a little undeserved, but I appreciate it immensely and look forward to repaying your generosity with new material before the year is out.

Until then!

 

[filcat]

---

I'm hoping to take things up to the end of 1967 at least, and – unless it ends up running into a 5-figure word count – on into the spring of 1968. If I can pull it all off, this will take in a whole number of topics including:

Ahh, the plans for the days to come, the vision to be delivered, the words yet to be, the image of the future.

Or, a trailer.

This prompts an urge of confession:
The only personal joy of the magic in a film theater has always been felt by the fact that the piece to be watched is preceded by trailers of future films. Well, until the end of nineties, and probably so until mid-noughties, the net was still in its infancy, and the news of visual and performing arts, be it theater play, film, or stand-up show, else a mime (whatever), could not be found, followed, scanned through entering a couple of words in an obscure search engine. The websites were flashing delirious gif images, intolerable to look at, and the only credible source of news was available in the papers, and perhaps some shows on the small screen, generally written or presented by moronic critics (no need to shy from naming, ebert, siskel, to remember in an instant).

Thus, there remained the trailers. The only true news feed, provided in one-to-three minutes of screening, presenting all the information is needed for one to look for what soon to be released or performed. It was delightful, and still it is, beside it being a vanity of sinful pleasure, knowing that it comes from the extreme commercialist view of selling every possible meta to the consumer (no need to invest another paragraph to bash the commercials, the point of hatred is made).

And yet, always fascinated by the trailers. The vignette of the art, the short exposé of what to expect, the flash of images for dreaming the soon-to-be-released piece, the brief summary of the play.

Needless to say, it was dreadful for the most of the history of films, with trailers going well above five minutes, featuring all the story before even having a chance to watch, therefore leaving no need to see the actual art; moreover, the ones with the trailer voice (that mate was actually a very good voice actor, Don LaFontaine, yet those trailers were made, as always, by the advertisers. They are dreadful. Now known as honest-trailer-voice, though only a cheap copy that is). Then slowly towards nineties, different approaches emerged, giving quick images in lightning speed, or long shots while obscuring the view, using the actual voice in the foreshadowed film, but summarising the plot without exposing the entire script, accompanied by distinctively good music (but not stock-music-for-trailers), and in truly magnificent ones, ending within a duration that leaves the audience, the spectators, the watchers, the listeners, in questions, to ask to learn what it is, to desire to watch, to strive for more; Come and see [1]; Are you alright? Yes. Laundry day. [2]; No one can be told what the matrix is, you have to see it for yourself [3]; and sometimes, without any voice, but with just formidable imagery of the scenes and music [4], etc.

<Warning - Warning - Warning - post is too long filcat - wrap it up>
<oh no. Derailed again. Will have to cut it now, and return for more>

---

racism and anti-racism in the music cultures of London and elsewhere; the shifting threat posed by Enoch Powell, and other assorted racists; the formation and radicalisation of a 'youth movement'; the fate of the Aberfan report and the continued problems in the coal industry; the fate of Lewis's industrial reforms; escalating radicalisms and tensions in Wales; escalating radicalisms and tensions among the 'professional classes'; continued deadlock in parliament; and the recent activities of one John Wintringham Lennon.

Anyway. So, a trailer. This is by default charming, not to mention as it is also a list, which is inherently beautiful.

Write, and write more; they will be read by all (well, in time, but will get there. Mentioned before, being not that much bright, thus a slow reader).

---

In an ideal world I'd be able to show you an Eisenstein-esque film of the storming, of course. Such a film is actually described in a subsequent chapter about the beginnings of the Commonwealth's film industry, produced by the fascinating real-life figure Ivor Montagu:

Before stopping for now, had to make this necro-mention, for it is too good:

Oh yes, Film in the Workers' Commonwealth, 1929–1934 by Wolf Mankowitz is the reason behind the mystery of this line for lifting the frowning brows:

-- Hang on, this is... this is good.

---

[1] Иди и смотри, 1985, d. Elem Klimov; even though that trailer is relatively modern version; but avoid the remastered trailers, which show some unnecessary thoughts of random irrelevant critics from bloody papers - washingt*n post thinks it is very good - yeah, no one asked, stop contaminating the scenes with your idiotic thoughts, and eat sht washingt*n post, or new y*rk times, or huffingt*n post, etc whatever the fq you are.

Trailer music: Requiem, in D minor, K. 626, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, 1791​

[2] Die Hard: With a Vengeance, 1995, d. John McTiernan; that trailer is special; international homevideo version.

Trailer music: Symphony No. 9, D minor, Op. 125, Finale, Ode to Joy, Ludwig van Beethoven, 1822-1824​

[3] The Matrix, 1999, d. Lana Wachowski, Lilly Wachowski; funnily boring film, but changed the trailers forever, by asking to see the film in it, from its own fiction.

Trailer music: The Eyes of Truth, from the album The Cross of Changes, Enigma, 1994​

[4] Inception, 2010, d. Christopher Nolan; teaser trailer of one-minute length; no voice nor conversation from the film, but only showing the scenes; would be perfect if it had not shown from the director of stuff; the other trailers for it are ordinary rubbish.

Trailer music: Composed by Mike Zarin, only for the teaser trailer, 2010​

 

[DensleyBlair]

And yet, always fascinated by the trailers. The vignette of the art, the short exposé of what to expect, the flash of images for dreaming the soon-to-be-released piece, the brief summary of the play.

Puts me in mind of Walter Benjamin, who had a lifelong ambition to write something composed entirely of paragraph fragments – the idea being (I'm paraphrasing heavily here, and wha's more relying on faulty memory of texts I've not read for a few years, so please bear with me) that these fragments work perfectly as, as you put it so poetically, 'images for dreaming the soon-to-be'. (Cf. Barthes' on 'writerly texts'; S/Z, 1970). For my money, the spark in the imagination provoked by trailers is a very big part of their magic.

Anyway. So, a trailer. This is by default charming, not to mention as it is also a list, which is inherently beautiful.

I do have a soft spot for the list.

Write, and write more; they will be read by all (well, in time, but will get there. Mentioned before, being not that much bright, thus a slow reader).

I've been sidetracked lately writing about Henry James, but (two January essay deadlines aside) I am incredibly eager to get some work in on Echoes over the break. I've got a couple of weeks between deadlines and the start of the new term where I'm hoping to make good progress on the long-awaited (and even longer drawn-out) finale!

As for slow reading… I'm just glad you're along for the ride at all!

Before stopping for now, had to make this necro-mention, for it is too good:

Oh yes, Film in the Workers' Commonwealth, 1929–1934 by Wolf Mankowitz is the reason behind the mystery of this line for lifting the frowning brows:

Ah, good old Wolf Mankowitz! I do enjoy throwing bits of film around the place, as I'm sure you've all picked up by now. This early chapter was a fun one to write and research.

And I'm doubly glad that it made you rethink you're initial horror at coming across a Mosley-based timeline!

Now – to the trailers themselves:

[1] Иди и смотри, 1985, d. Elem Klimov; even though that trailer is relatively modern version; but avoid the remastered trailers, which show some unnecessary thoughts of random irrelevant critics from bloody papers - washingt*n post thinks it is very good - yeah, no one asked, stop contaminating the scenes with your idiotic thoughts, and eat sht washingt*n post, or new y*rk times, or huffingt*n post, etc whatever the fq you are.
Trailer music: Requiem, in D minor, K. 626, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, 1791

A stunning montage, offset in terrifying and awe-inspiring fashion by the use of the requiem.

[2] Die Hard: With a Vengeance, 1995, d. John McTiernan; that trailer is special; international homevideo version.
Trailer music: Symphony No. 9, D minor, Op. 125, Finale, Ode to Joy, Ludwig van Beethoven, 1822-1824

Ah, this old chestnut. Does its job excellently by making the film look much better than it is – possibly by removing Jeremy Irons almost entirely… A fine example of the genre.

[3] The Matrix, 1999, d. Lana Wachowski, Lilly Wachowski; funnily boring film, but changed the trailers forever, by asking to see the film in it, from its own fiction.
Trailer music: The Eyes of Truth, from the album The Cross of Changes, Enigma, 1994

Interesting. Can imagine how game-changing it would have been, and I suppose it does the job of throwing up a million questions (presumably only to be answered – or not – by seeing the film), but I'm not sure how hooked I am. Good thing I've seen it already, I suppose!

[4] Inception, 2010, d. Christopher Nolan; teaser trailer of one-minute length; no voice nor conversation from the film, but only showing the scenes; would be perfect if it had not shown from the director of stuff; the other trailers for it are ordinary rubbish.
Trailer music: Composed by Mike Zarin, only for the teaser trailer, 2010

As you say, the decision to let the scenes speak for themselves (score aside) works very well. Not sure whether I'd necessarily be pushed to see the film by this (if I hadn't already), but it's well done.

And now, for a couple of examples from a true maestro of the form:

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Best trailer ever (as in it perfectly establishes the film it is shooting) is probably Pyscho's long directors trailer.

Nothing more than a small fat man walking around a house giving away the two most famous jump scares in a horror thriller just to make sure the creepy and tense tone was set, and the genre breaking was established.

 

[DensleyBlair]

Best trailer ever (as in it perfectly establishes the film it is shooting) is probably Pyscho's long directors trailer.

Nothing more than a small fat man walking around a house giving away the two most famous jump scares in a horror thriller just to make sure the creepy and tense tone was set, and the genre breaking was established.

Hitchcock’s promotion of Psycho (which he retained full control over iirc) was a thing to behold in many ways. Releasing the film without a critics’ screening was particularly astute after the mauling dishes out to Michael Powell over Peeping Tom…

There’s a very funny game going on where he’s dancing around the censors to make sure he gets to keep the horror, but still being coy enough that they don’t realise they’re being taken for a ride.

Perhaps the start of Vol 2 needs a look in at Hitchcock post- censorship abolition…

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Hitchcock’s promotion of Psycho (which he retained full control over iirc) was a thing to behold in many ways. Releasing the film without a critics’ screening was particularly astute after the mauling dishes out to Michael Powell over Peeping Tom…

There’s a very funny game going on where he’s dancing around the censors to make sure he gets to keep the horror, but still being coy enough that they don’t realise they’re being taken for a ride.

Perhaps the start of Vol 2 needs a look in at Hitchcock post- censorship abolition…

Horror directors are quite good at getting round censors, or at least frustrating them to the point where they can't actually censor anything. The original Texas Chainsaw Massacre was infamous for suprsing the very experienced British censor team when they found there was nothing they could actually cut, short of cutting bascially the whole film.

Mind you, filming something you knew was going to get heavily censored and then ignoring them and releasing it as X rated enabled some small studios to get off the ground and make ridiculous amounts of money from very cheap productions. This is pretty much THE reason why Hammer ever got anywhere in the first place, when they redid the BBC Quartermass Experiment but showed the audience everything.

 

[filcat]

Best trailer ever (as in it perfectly establishes the film it is shooting) is probably Pyscho's long directors trailer.
Nothing more than a small fat man walking around a house giving away the two most famous jump scares in a horror thriller just to make sure the creepy and tense tone was set, and the genre breaking was established.

Err, no? This is not correct.

The best trailer ever is of course the one for The Birds

Spoiler: they are coming

The original Texas Chainsaw Massacre was infamous

Hitting with rubbishclassics, eh?

All right, time for dance.

Spoiler: the dance

---

And I'm doubly glad that it made you rethink you're initial horror at coming across a Mosley-based timeline!

Some works are remembered with the good parts, some by their worse sides.

This one, however, as it is heading towards the magnificent scale (universal filcat-o-meter) (still have to re-read another round, for this time cross-referential examination), presents the brilliance coming from its superior quality while retaining its notoriety.

Oh no, the horror will be remembered, no way forgetting that, no sire.

And now, for a couple of examples from a true maestro of the form:

Spoiler: le mepris

Spoiler: pierrot le fou

Woah, this is full-scale invasion; this is hitting with trueclassics; this is...

Spoiler: This is some gourmet sht

Fortunately watched them, ever before being poisoned by their trailers.



Splendid, have to defend the french cinema. All right, best defence is offence. Initiating the counter-attack:

Spoiler: le samourai - long

...and when it is edited for one minute, then voila, here comes the beauty (and no, no sarcasm, this is serious):

Spoiler: le samourai

Enough of french films. This one is great, considering its age; even though it gives almost the entire premise, the film has thousandfold more to provide:

Spoiler: The triangle is you, Kikuchiyo

 

[DensleyBlair]

Mind you, filming something you knew was going to get heavily censored and then ignoring them and releasing it as X rated enabled some small studios to get off the ground and make ridiculous amounts of money from very cheap productions. This is pretty much THE reason why Hammer ever got anywhere in the first place, when they redid the BBC Quartermass Experiment but showed the audience everything.

It's useful to remember, against the rich tradition of 'genre' productions being used as a place to hide subversive messaging, that there is an equally rich tradition of just going for it full pelt anyway. I can't remember whether I've mentioned Hammer yet… feel like we definitely talked about it at some point, but not sure whether I wrote anything up.

Err, no? This is not correct.

The best trailer ever is of course the one for The Birds

That is an exceptional piece of work.

Some works are remembered with the good parts, some by their worse sides.

This one, however, as it is heading towards the magnificent scale (universal filcat-o-meter) (still have to re-read another round, for this time cross-referential examination), presents the brilliance coming from its superior quality while retaining its notoriety.

Oh no, the horror will be remembered, no way forgetting that, no sire.

Thank you for your very kind words, first of all. Heading towards 'magnificent' on the Filcat-O-Meter is a position I am deeply honoured to be in.

As for horror and notoriety… well, I suppose I'm happy to take those things too

Splendid, have to defend the french cinema. All right, best defence is offence. Initiating the counter-attack:

I think French cinema is pretty safe from attack in this thread, but that is a fantastic contribution to the conversation. And a dangerous one. Now I'll have to use all my might not to fling back a thousand more—

Enough of french films.

—never mind. Peace reigns once again!

This one is great, considering its age; even though it gives almost the entire premise, the film has thousandfold more to provide:

Incredible the lengths they've gone to here to show you the film. And, as you say, a testament to the strength of the thing that it remains rich and compelling in spite of this. A far cry from the inverse, which many films are guilty of: hooking you with the best bits in the trailer, then when you go to see the thing the rest is basically 85 minutes of padding.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

feel like we definitely talked about it at some point

We did, because I was worried british acting was murdered by the revolution, given the backgrounds of many talents. Then again, many more were working class after the war and took advantage of the small boom and social mobility to get into it. I wonder how many would be surprised to learn how working class most of the founders of the RSC were/are?

Won't be royal of course, but could still happen. Unfortunately, I think of everyone, Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee are very likely to have been removed from the country well before the war. And Hammer itself probably won't be a huge success unless some benevolent government steps in, because the real reason why they stayed viable for so long was good relations and deals with Amercian producers. As soon as they lost that connection, they were in huge financial trouble.

And of course, there's no Bond and war films to keep the industry up as costs skyrocket and modernisation requires massive investment in studio space and complexity.

That is an exceptional piece of work.

Yes I quite agree. 7 samurai naturally is excellent too. Much like the first star wars film, knowing the entire plot doesn't really matter in terms of viewer enjoyment. You can watch both films with the sound off and understand what is going on. It's more an experience than anything else.

 

[DensleyBlair]

We did, because I was worried british acting was murdered by the revolution, given the backgrounds of many talents. Then again, many more were working class after the war and took advantage of the small boom and social mobility to get into it. I wonder how many would be surprised to learn how working class most of the founders of the RSC were/are?

Won't be royal of course, but could still happen.

Yes that's right… Coverage of the film industry between 1940–60 is fairly limited, but after the Free Cinema Movement of the early Sixties the industry has a fresh impetus. And off the top of my head, Will Marr did a Brechtian production of Hamlet in 1964 that sparked a renewed interest in Shakespeare so something like an (R)SC is entirely possible…

Unfortunately, I think of everyone, Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee are very likely to have been removed from the country well before the war.

Probably true – although Lee turns up in Kubrick's British-made Fun and Games in 1965-ish. Can't remember how I justified that one…

And Hammer itself probably won't be a huge success unless some benevolent government steps in, because the real reason why they stayed viable for so long was good relations and deals with Amercian producers. As soon as they lost that connection, they were in huge financial trouble.

Again, probably true. Can't see late-period Mosley diverting money towards a Hammer-style company. It's probably safe to see the post-war period as a bit of a slump for British cinema, after the revolutionary zeal has died off and with the economy heading into decline. Though Powell (and probably Pressburger too) can hardly be left out, so I'll perhaps revisit this period in a retrospective overview some time in the Seventies…

And of course, there's no Bond and war films to keep the industry up

Britain does have the Digby franchise, which by this point has become a Eurosyn-wide thing. The last one was a British–French co-production too, so there's some hint of a broader cultural collaboration beginning to take place.

For anyone interested in actual Bond, meanwhile, I'm fairly certain I've got a note somewhere that has Christopher Plummer down as the first 007, fighting Syndie guerilllas in Cuba on her Canadian majesty's secret service in his debut outing.

as costs skyrocket and modernisation requires massive investment in studio space and complexity

On the flip side, necessity here is also the mother of invention. A proper countercultural, underground filmmaking movement in Free Cinema means a much more robust 'New Wave' in Britain, complete with technical ingenuity rather than simply aping the French. Handheld cameras and montage and so on were not just radical deviations hit upon by a few iconoclasts, after all, but very practical ways to get around not working with studio backing on a soundstage etc.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Ironically, it seems likely that british and French cinema is flipped in this timeline. The French are the production powerhouse in eurosyn cinema, carrying on from pre-war. British industry is never going to get off the ground and so will be very artistic and indie.

Meanwhile, Hollywood will be even more flushed with old English talent than otl, and this probably means that the all-American hero is the only thing the amercian male actors will be able to get. And cowboy films I suppose.

 

[Anuerin]

Ironically, it seems likely that british and French cinema is flipped in this timeline. The French are the production powerhouse in eurosyn cinema, carrying on from pre-war. British industry is never going to get off the ground and so will be very artistic and indie.

Meanwhile, Hollywood will be even more flushed with old English talent than otl, and this probably means that the all-American hero is the only thing the amercian male actors will be able to get. And cowboy films I suppose.

TTL Hollywood has a much more leftist bent because every star came up hating the white exile Brits for taking all the good roles.

 

[DensleyBlair]

Ironically, it seems likely that british and French cinema is flipped in this timeline. The French are the production powerhouse in eurosyn cinema, carrying on from pre-war. British industry is never going to get off the ground and so will be very artistic and indie.

Not sure whether the flip will be that extreme, but certainly I agree France as the major cinematic powerhouse of the Eurosyn feels right. Which maybe means an even more violently iconoclastic Nouvelle Vague when it happens (which is probably 'already' seeing as we're now in 1967), seeing as the icons will only be bigger.

But Britain has a fairly robust industry of its own; canonically, Chaplin and Hitchcock are both about in the early years, and Kubrick has made at least one film in Britain post-Mosley. Michael Powell will also be around as I say, and possibly Pressburger too. And the Ealing Comedies will exist in some form, I imagine.

The problem times probably set in post-1950, when total control by the studios comes up against funding cuts etc. So production goes down and there's no alternative to lap it up. Hence the Free Cinema movement, the Heatherden Twelve scandal etc – which ironically end up helping to bring Mosley down…

Meanwhile, Hollywood will be even more flushed with old English talent than otl, and this probably means that the all-American hero is the only thing the amercian male actors will be able to get. And cowboy films I suppose.

Yes – they've probably got Gielgud, Guinness and maybe Olivier for a start. Which is a hammer blow for British theatre, unless Richard Burton can single handedly keep it afloat.

Meanwhile, canonically, Britain has Cary Grant, but I can't remember how I justified him staying seeing as OTL he left in 1920… But he's the first Digby now so he has to stick around. Ah well…

More concretely, along with Chaplin Britain potentially receives a load of people driven out of Hollywood during the Red Scares, which are worse ITTL. Paul Robeson is a likely contender, for one.

TTL Hollywood has a much more leftist bent because every star came up hating the white exile Brits for taking all the good roles.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

unless Richard Burton can single handedly keep it afloat.

Doubtful. Not with Oliver there to boost him up, and then the inevitable drinking problems. Then again, with Guinness, O'Toole and co in America, who will be his drinking buddies?

I wonder if Orson Wells comes to British cinema after RKO boots him out? They need directors and talent, but the money would still be there in the 50s to make some movies.

 

[DensleyBlair]

Doubtful. Not with Oliver there to boost him up, and then the inevitable drinking problems. Then again, with Guinness, O'Toole and co in America, who will be his drinking buddies?

Richard Harris, presuming he doesn’t get stuck in Ireland. And, checking through the archives, O’Toole played Hamlet in 1964 according to this update, so he’s also around for boozing. Same chapter has Olivier involved in the revival of the National Commonwealth Theatre, so looks like he’s still in too…

Tangentially related, but while we’re on Burton I urge everyone to enjoy this anecdote of his:

I wonder if Orson Wells comes to British cinema after RKO boots him out? They need directors and talent, but the money would still be there in the 50s to make some movies.

I’d thought this would probably happen. He went to France OTL iirc, and made some very peculiar made-for-tv films in the process. Could probably do a fair amount on a small budget if he’s given artistic control…

 

[99KingHigh]

get your commie hands off Orson Wells

 

[Wraith11B]

get your commie hands off Orson Wells

Didn't the House Un-American Activities Committee want to get their hands on him?