Tinto Maps #12 - 26th of July 2024 - Germany

[Zaragoza]

Noted the ideas, and we will take a more detailed look at them when we review the map. About the questions:
1. The Free City.
2. Not currently, it's strategic indeed per se.
3. A bit local, I'm sorry to say.
4. Hmm, not currently; are there any other examples of Reichsgut territories changing sides just before or after the Golden Bull?
5. It's on our radar to do some stuff regarding historical Leagues, although we want to do first the Swiss Confederacy as a testing ground of how it would work (which will happen soon), and also the map review of Germany.

Regarding #4 I was not so much thinking about the Golden Bull but about Bohemian internal politics and the Upper Palatinate.

Egerland was pawnedby the Wittelsbach to Bohemia in 1322. In 1329 you also have a division of Wittelsbach lands under the Treaty of Pavia, and in 1355-1356 Charles IV did purchase more lands in the Upper Palatinate like Hiltpoltstein and Störnstein. German Wikipedia even mention part of the Upper Palatinate begin referred as Neuböhmen (New Bohemia). See the bohemian border reaching Nuremberg in https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/HRR_1400.png However, the area is still mentioned as part of Franconia in text and it seems the integration in the bohemian kingdom was mixed. As some other areas of the kingdom, I've sometimes rad that the local "circle" (district diet) was more used by the local nobility than the general bohemian parliament. However, note I'm not an expert in czech history for that level of detail.

However, after Charles IV death, his son Wenceslaus IV of Bohemia was not able to retain effective control of most of the area and most of it was de facto subpawned to other local lords. By the XVI century there was an hipotetical suzeranity hardly enforced. After the Habsburg victory in Mühlberg in 1547 there were more changes. Ferdinand I was the then king of Bohemia and the main defeated protestant leader was the elector of Saxony, so there were new adjustments in the borders (Schwarzenberg, Vogtland...) although several of them doesn't seem to have last the death of the pro-Habsburg Henry of Plauen.

The Sudeten was infamously polemic in the following centuries. What I wanted to pinpoint is that the starting point is just in the middle of a process of border back-and-forth that doesn't need to exactly match the current frontier. There should be minorities in both areas of the border with the Cheb/Egerland area being a recently aquired area that a Bohemian player could try to use as an outpost for further expansion into the Franconia, but also could lose if there is a setback like the Wenceslaus IV dethronement

 

[Chieron]

I just wanted to let you know, I revised my post and referred to your post. Since I don’t know how to quote you, I‘m replying to your post.
Please let me know, if you have other suggestions.

Yeah, quoting a following message in a later edit is a bit odd. I guess you could try to quote it and then copy the text from the reply editor to the message editor.

Regarding your post: I like the ideas in general, but would strongly consider adding the Sternberg area to Bützow and surroundings for gameplay purposes. The Wismar snake makes for bad borders and adjacencies/connectivity, and the panhandle feels quite narrow to click. Consider how it will look, if Sweden controls Wismar again, as historical.

Removing the Fürstenberg panhandle from Strelitz is a good idea for similar reasons. The panhandle is slightly anachronistic (by a few years) and doesn't add anything meaningful (Templin and Ruppin still border each other).

I like the choice of Malchow for the eastern Parchim location (Plau is tiny and was completely unimportant). That area strikes me as a wooded fish or lumber location, but I do not have a source for that..

I like the proposed province borders. I do wonder, if we now have too many locations in some provinces and need to split in three province or hand over some to neighboring provinces.. With 17 locations total, we might get away with two provinces for Mecklenburg:
Mecklenburg / western Mecklenburg / Obodritia:

1. Ratzeburg (capital of its bishopric which could also be attached to Holstein as Hippo noted)
2. Grevesmühlen (Mecklenburg)
3. Wismar (capital of duchy of Mecklenburg)
4. Schwerin (capital of county of Schwerin)
5. Hagenow (Schwerin)
6. Grabow (Mecklenburg)
7. Parchim (Mecklenburg)
8. Bützow (capital of bishopric of Schwerin, new location, wooded, lumber ?)

Werle / eastern Mecklenburg:

1. Rostock (Mecklenburg)
2. Doberan / Kröpelin (Mecklenburg)
3. Ribnitz (Mecklenburg)
4. Güstrow (capital of principality of Werle-Güstrow / Güstrow)
5. Malchow (Güstrow, new location, wooded, fish ?)
6. Waren (capital of principality of Werle-Waren / Waren)
7. Malchin (Waren)
8. Strelitz (Mecklenburg, this could also be part of the Uckermark province, more for conceptual reasons)
9. Neubrandenburg (Mecklenburg, this could also be part of the Uckermark province, more for conceptual reasons)

Strelitz and Neubrandenburg cover the area of Stargard that had become part of Mecklenburg 40 years earlier, they could be attached to the Uckermark province, also providing additional incentive for Mecklenburg to acquire that area (as happened historically). That said, the actual effects of provinces are not yet provided as far as I know. Moving them to Uckermark keeps the location counts in the target range.

Vorpommern would then cover:

1. Rügen (Wolgast)
2. Stralsund (Wolgast, claimed by Mecklenburg)
3. Grimmen (Wolgast, claimed by Mecklenburg)
4. Greifswald (Wolgast)
5. Wolgast (capital of the duchy of Pomerania-Wolgast / Wolgast. ironically, the town is on the mainland in the Greifswald location, this location contains only the islands of Usedom and Wolin. Maybe carve out something for the town, and move Wolin to the Kammin location)
6. Anklam (part of Pomerania-Stettin)
7. Demmin (part of Pomerania-Stettin)

A three-province solution for Mecklenburg will probably lead to some weird names and borders.

 

[ShinsukeNakamura]

Below, the Lusatian place names announced in the post about Polabian. Here, fortunately, I did not have to rely on reconstruction for the most part (although this happened a few times) and I could use existing and used names in Lower Lusatian and Upper Lusatian. The red line on the map below indicates the division between the versions of names used - Lower Lusatian in the north, Upper Lusatian in the south (although the real division, according to linguistic knowledge, was not so clear).

The names listed below come from areas inhabited in the early Middle Ages by the Sorbian tribes. In several places, the original Slavic names have been preserved, Germanized to varying degrees. In others, however, there is a Sorbian version (or translation) of the original German map. For the western areas, in several places I based them on reconstructions - these were the areas that were Germanized at the earliest (around the 10th-11th centuries). In the remaining locations, only German names exist. I decided to leave them untranslated because: a) I was unable to find an appropriate Sorbian name, b) it is evidence of the history of this region and settlements founded from scratch by German colonists in the later Middle Ages.

Burg – Bor
Belzig - Bělsko
Zerbst – Serbišćo
Wittenberg - Běła Hora
Brandenburg - Braniboŕ
Potsdam - Podstupim
Berlin - Barliń
Teltow – Teltow (no change)
Beeskow - Bezkow
Juterbog - Jutšebok
Schweinitz - Swinica
Liebenwerda - Rukow
Guben - Gubin
Lubben - Lubin
Luckau - Łukow
Calau - Kalawa
Cottbus - Chóśebuz
Spremberg - Grodk
Lebus - Lubuš
Krosno Odrzańskie - Krosyn
Żary – Žarow
Żagań - Žahań
Hoyerswerda – Wojerecy (later, 18th century name)
Gorlitz - Zhorjelc
Bautzen - Budyšin
Zittau - Žitawa
Meissen - Mišno
Dresden - Drježdźany
Freiberg - (German settlement - no change)
Pirna - Pěrno
Merseburg - Mjezybor
Leipzig - Lipsk
Grimma - Grima
Rochlitz - Rochelice
Dobeln - Doblin
Naumburg - Namgard
Weissenfels - (German settlement - no change)
Bitterfeld - (German settlement - no change)
Delitzsch - Deliźišćo
Torgau - Torgawa
Altenburg - Starohród
Zwickau - Šwikawa
Chemnitz - Kamjenica
Glauchau - Głuchow
Schwarzenberg - (German settlement - no change)
Plauen - Pławno
Gera - Gera
Hof - Dwórc
Kulmbach – Cholmna (reconstruction of both the town and the river - 1028 Kulma, 1176 Culminaha, 1220 Culmina)
Magdeburg - Źěwin

I based the names of the provinces on existing names of the regions or the most important cities in those regions.

Citizi - Chutycy (it's hard to find sources about this name)
Mittelmark - Marka Bramborska (more general name)
Neumark - Lubušska
Niderlausitz - Dolna Łužyca
Oberlausitz - Hornja Łužica
Mark Landsberg – Cholm (reconstruction – 961 Holm, Gollma, 1222 de Chulme)
Mark Merseburg - Mjezybor
Mark Meissen - Mišno
Mark Zeitz - Žič
Geratal - Gera
Głogów - Hłohow

The names for the areas are the names of the current German federal states.

Brandenburg - Bramborska
Sachsen – Sakska
Sachsen-Anhalt - Saksko-Anhaltska
Thuring - Durinska

If the country of Lusatia has Sorbian primary culture, it should be called Lužica.

 

[Teekesslchen]

Ah, the Holy Roman Empire. What a beautiful mess. And finally a region where I can offer some feedback on! I notice a couple of mistakes in Austria - some towns seem to be confused about which side of the Danube they should be on, for instance - and I have plenty of suggestions for improvement.

I will preface this by saying that all the information below is a mix of the kind of knowledge you accumulate as a local, some Googling, and some maps whose accuracy I can't verify, so please take my suggestions with a Salzburg's worth of salt. That being said, let's help those towns across the Danube, shall we?

Spoiler: Locations and Provinces

Lower Austria:

• Ober dem Manhartsberg:
  • Move Melk south across the Danube into Ober dem Wienerwald (more on that below) and replace with Ysper. Resource for Ysper is Fruit (representing the Wachau apricots).
  • Move Tulln south across the Danube into Ober dem Wienerwald (more on that below) and replace with Stockerau. Since there is no obvious replacement for Tulln in this precise area, I suggest extending the current Location's borders slightly to the east into Korneuburg to include Stockerau - which, conventiently, is the last semi-significant town in this area not already represented by as a Location. Should be Flatland, Forest, possibly with Wine.
  • Move the Location that is currently named Tulln to Unter dem Manhartsberg. It's currently in the wrong province.
  • Waidhofen an der Thaya's name can be shortened to Waidhofen as long as Waidhofen an der Ybbs isn't also added as a Location (which, to be fair, I'll be adding as another suggestion further downthreat).

• Unter dem Wienerwald: This is my home area, so expect way too many words on how to rework it.
  • Rename to Ober dem Wienerwald. You got your Viertel mixed up there.
  • Replace Grafendorf with Melk. As already mentioned, Melk should be on the south side of the Danube and Grafendorf is, as far as I can tell, not too important to replace. Note that you'll need to cut off the westernmost corner of St. Pölten and give it to this new Melk, because that is Melk's approximate location. Resource for Melk should still be Fruit (those delicious Wachau apricots again).
  • Remove Purkersdorf. Replace it and the eastern part of St. Pölten's current Location with two new Locations: Tulln (Flatlands, perhaps Farmlands, any agricultural good such as Wheat or Legumes; located in a fairly narrow band along the Danube between Vienna and St. Pölten) and Neulengbach (Hills, Forest, either Lumber or Wine; directly to the south of Tulln and sandwiched inbetween it, Wien, Baden, Lilienfeld, and St. Pölten. Neulengbach could easily 'eat' the eastern parts of St. Pölten and the western parts of Baden to represent the entire Wienerwald area.
    • To explain my reasoning: Tulln is surrounded by a very distinctive flatlands area, the Tullnerfeld, which is bordered to the north by the Danube and to the south by the hills of the Wienerwald. In order to represent this distinction in the game, it's not enough to just rename Purkersdorf to Tulln. Note that this distinction has the added benefit of extending Vienna's control along the Danube while blocking its control through the Hills, which has the nice effect of focusing Vienna's attention on that all-important river while also providing a buffer between Vienna and St. Pölten. Finally, Purkersdorf isn't my favourite choice to represent the Wienerwald area as it is too much in the orbit of Vienna. Neulengbach, on the other hand, was formerly the seat of the "Herren von Lengbach" (extinct by 1337) who were important for extending Babenberger's control into the difficult to control Wienerwald.

• Ober dem Manhartsberg, Unter dem Manhartsberg & Ober dem Wienerwald are all historically accurate names, but they're also quite the mouthful. You might rename them to the shortened versions Ober-Manhartsberg, Unter-Manhartsberg, and Ober-Wienerwald. All three became offical names for these Provinces in the 18th century, though I can't say how long they'd been in use before that.
  • It's difficult to make out on the map, but all three Province names should start with "Ober/Unter dem". The map might say "Ober/Unter der", although I'm not sure.

• Amstetten:
  • Move Mariazell to Mürztal. It should be in Styria, not Lower Austria. Replace with Waidhofen an der Ybbs. Note that Waidhofen is actually located in that southern 'arm' of Amstetten's current territory, so you'll have to redraw the borders a bit.
  • I'm unsure why Amstetten is it's own Province. Unless there's a historical reason I'm not aware of, I suggest folding it into Ober dem Wienerwald. If you are just trying to limit the number of Locations in one Province, I suggest splitting off Tulln, Neulengbach, and perhaps St. Pölten and/or Lilienfeld into a Province called Wienerwald. I don't think there's any administrative precedent for that, but it would be a more natural division of the area's geography.

Upper Austria:

• Mühlviadl:
  • Rename to Mühlviertel. The current spelling is an approximation of local dialect, not a correct spelling (now or historically).
  • Move Linz south across the Danube into what is now Wels (more on that below). Replace it with Leonfelden. This would probably be the most notable town in the region, particularly important as a market town linking Linz to Bohemia and eventually a key garrison of the Hussite Wars.

• Traungau: Remove Lambach. It's location is odd, as it should be to the southwest of Wels and isn't part of Traungau/modern Traunviertel. And as I will explain momentarily, moving Linz to its correct location doesn't leave much room in this area.

• 'Grafschaft':
  • The name must be a mistake, as it just means "County". Judging from its shape, I assume it should be Schaunberg (the Grafschaft Schaunberg).
  • Add Linz. This creates some problems with space and Province borders: from the maps I have found, Linz should be part of Schaunberg but today it is part of the Traunviertel (the modern name for the Traungau), so it might fit in either Province. This would require some more research. I see two options:
    • Add Linz to the Traungaun and extend its territory eastward along the Danube to border Amstetten. Then absorb the rest of what used to be Lambach into Kirchdorf and Gmunden. This leaves room in Schaunberg for a decently sized Wels. You might even add Eferding, which is a fairly important town to the west of Linz (perhaps replacing the in my opinion less significant Grieskirchen in the process).
    • Add Linz to Schaunberg and extend its territory westward along the Danube to include the area that could otherwise be Eferding. In that case Grieskirchen will probably have to be divided up between the more significant Linz and Wels or the Province will get cramped. This would leave room to add Enns as a Location to the east between Linz and Amstetten, essentially replacing most of Lambach.
    • Of course, you might add Eferding and/or Enns either way, if you're willing to increase the Location density even further.

Steiermark:

• Hartberg & Fürstenfeld: Add Hartberg as Location. The Province of Hartberg currently does not contain Hartberg as a Location. Alternatively, you could rename the Province to Fürstenfeld, which is already on the map. However, both towns are important enough to add Hartberg in approx. the northern half of what is now Fürstenfeld.
  • Alternatively, the Province corresponds roughly with the cultural and geographic region known as Oststeiermark, which could be considered as an alternative name for the Province.

• Styria:
  • Should be included in the Steiermark Area.
  • Rename to Untersteiermark (Spodnja Štajerska/Lower Styria when not held by German-speaking culture). Lower Styria/Slovenian Styria should not just be called 'Styria' when the word can also refer to the larger region.
  • Add Pettau (Ptuj). The Province could use a higher Location density.
  • Rename Maribor to Marburg while held by German-speaking culture.

• Leibnitz:
  • I am unclear why the Province is named Leibnitz. Unless there is a historical reason I'm not aware of, I suggest renaming it. A few suggestions: Weststeiermark (a geographic term, not an administrative division and I believe fairly modern but also handily descriptive), An der Mur (from the medieval "Mark an der Mur", though by 1337 the name is likely out of date), Graz (simply name the whole thing after the capital), or Steiermark (considering this is the core territory of the Duchy, I believe this is the one province that can simply be called "Styria").
  • Add Lonsperg. Leibnitz currently divided Middle Styria from Celje, but I believe the Styrian dukes held lands to its west. Adding a location under Styrian (i.e. Austrian) control to the west of Leibnitz would remedy that.
  • Move Leoben out of the Province. More on that in a moment.

• Lungau:
  • While I'm not firm on the historical division in the area, I believe the position of Lungau is inaccurate. Lungau is a region in Salzburg (around Tamsweg) and from the - admittedly fairly superficial - bit of reading I've just done, I have no reason to believe that would have been different in 1337. The only thing I have found is maps of the Duchy of Styria labelling the Murau area as part of Lungau, but certainly not Judenburg and further in. Therefore, I have the following suggestions:
    • Add Province called Murtal containing Judenburg, Leoben, and Pölstal. Murtal is a geographic region and not an administrative unit (at least historically), but I think it works quite well to represent the Grafschaften of Judenburg and Leoben and its consistent with other Province names in the region.
    • Add Province called Lungau containing Tamsweg (currently in Pongau), Murau, and Oberwölz. The only problem here is that it might mess up the Area divides between Salzburg and Steiermark.
    • Alternatively, all of these Locations (minus Tamsweg) could form the Province of Murtal, which has the benefit of separating Steiermark and Salzburg as distinct Areas.
  • Change shape of Oberwölz and Murau to extend Murau farther to the southwest. Essentially, Oberwölz should not have a border to Friesach and Feldkirchen since it is located to the northeast of Murau.

I've collected all my previous suggestions for how to rework Austria (quoted above) in a nice little map for better visualisation. Continuing from Styria and Austria Proper, I've also added a bunch of additional suggestions for Salzburg, Carinthia, Tyrol, and Vorarlberg and revisited some areas I've already talked about. I see less need for rework in the western part of the map, but there's still some room for improvement. Details below.

(Province borders in red, Location borders in yellow, impassable terrain in dark red, and one crudely drawn mountain pass in grey. Borders that are unchanged are left unchanged.)

Spoiler: Locations and Provinces

Austria Proper (Lower and Upper Austria):

• Vienna: Split Enzersdorf from Gänserndorf. This allows you to represent that Enzersdorf was under the control of the Bishopric of Freising at game start. Resource should anything agricultural (representing the Marchfeld's position as "Vienna's Granary").

• Amstetten:
  • Rename Province to Ybbstal. I was sceptical of splitting Amstetten off of Ober-Wienerwald, but I like another user's suggestion to rename the area Ybbstal, which makes sense as a regional distinction.
  • Move Mariazell to Mürztal, as described in my previous comment quoted at the top.
  • Add Scheibbs and Waidhofen an der Ybbs in the place of Mariazell, including some of Amstetten's southern territory in the latter. Waidhofen begins the game under the control of the Bishopric of Freising. Resource for Waidhofen is Fruit (representing the extensive fruit orchards of the Ybbstal). Its shape in my map is based on the outline on this map.

• Traungau:
  • Add Enns. I've made up my mind that Enns is important enough to add and makes sense to fill in the region's geography. Enns and the other Locations replace Lambach as I have laid out in my previous post linked above.
  • Add Ischl, split from Gmunden. Ischl represents the entire Salzkammergut area, which I believe is important enough to represent as a Location, if only for its extensive salt mines. Note that the Location is not yet named Bad Ischl.

• Mühlviertel: Move Linz south of the Danube (as suggested in my previous post). Move Freistatt to take up the bulk of the now empty space and extend Perg. Going back on my previous suggestion, I've dropped Leonfelden and extended both Freistatt and Perg so that the latter can control the entirety of the Machlandviertel (which doesn't make sense as its own Province, but is still nice to represent).

• 'Grafschaft':
  • Add Eferding as a Location. This makes the region a bit tight, but hey, it's the HRE. Eferding's territory includes Schaunberg Castle, the seat of the Counts of Schaunberg (see below).
  • Add Schaunberg as a country and an Austrian subject. Controls Eferding, Linz, Vöcklabruck, and Wels. The capital is Eferding. The Counts of Schaunberg were Austrian vassals in control of the region until the 16th century.
  • Split off Braunau, Ried, and Schärding into a new Province, called Innbaiern or Innviertel. This Province belongs to the Lower Bavaria area. This entire area was under Bavarian control until well into the 18th century so it is too soon to represent it as part of Upper Austria.
    • On the Province name: Innbaiern is the most historically accurate choice but may sound odd if the name is no longer controlled by Bavaria. If this is possible, it might be ideal to give the Province the generic name Innviertel but call it Innbaiern while under the control of Bavaria or one of is constituent parts.
  • Rename the rest of the Province to Hausruckviertel or Schaunberger Landl. Either seems fine. The former is a proper administrative name and fits with the fact that we already have other Viertel represented, but technically only comes into use in the 16th century. The latter is an informal name to the region that survived the Schaunberger by centuries.
    • As above, the most immersive solution would be to name the Province Hausruckviertel but change the name to Schaunberger Landl while it is controlled by Schaunberg.
  • Change the shape of St. Georgen and Vöcklabruck so their border runs north to south. The area is divided by the Attersee, which I believe serves as a more natural border between the two Locations than the current one.

Salzburg:

• Salzburggau: Rename Province to Flaches Land or Flachgau. The area was only named Salzburggau while part of Bavaria and thereafter renamed.
  • For added immersion, the Province could be renamed Salzburggau while it is under the control of Bavaria (or one of the fractured Bavarias).

• Pongau:
  • Rename Bad Hofgastein to Hofgastein. The prefix 'Bad' was only added in 1936.
    • Should have Gold has a Resource, representing the nearby Goldberggruppe.
  • Rename St. Johann in Tirol to St. Johann im Pongau. As the name suggests, St. Johann in Tirol is a different town down in Tyrol. Alternatively, if there is no other Location called St. Johann, just call it St. Johann.

Styria (incl. Slovenia):

• Lungau:
  • Rename to Murtal. As I have previously suggested, the Province needs to be renamed. I have made up my mind that Murtal is the best option. As I've previously discussed, the Province should also include Leoben.
  • Oberwölz should initially belong to Freising.

• Slovenian Locations: The various Slovenian Locations that begin the game under German-speaking rulers should presumably have German names. The corresponding German names would be: Adelsberg (Postojna), Bischofslack (Škofja Loka), Feldes (Bled), Laibach (Ljubljana), Rudolfswerth (Novo mesto).
  • Note that Novo Mesto technically wasn't founded yet at game start. Since I don't know Slovenia I'll leave it at that.

Carinthia:

• Oberkärnten:
  • Split Windisch-Matrei from Lienz. Windisch-Matrei begins under Salzburg's control.
  • Though I'm not entirely clear on this, I believe there should be a passage through the mountains from Windisch-Matrei to Mittersill (the Felber Tauern passage).
  • Move Lienz and Windisch-Matrei into their own Province, called Iseltal. Both towns are in a somewhat difficult inbetween position between Carinthia and Tyrol - at the time I believe they may have been considered Carinthian but they will eventually become East Tyrol. By giving them their own Province, they can more easily shift from the Carinthian to the Tyrolean orbit.
  • Replace Steinfeld with Greifenburg. I'm unclear why Steinfeld was chosen for this Location because it seems rather unimportant. However, Steinfeld was (according to Wikipedia) important as a mining town for Iron, Gold, and "precious metals", so there are several options for Resources.
    • Reduce borders in the northeast to give more room to Spittal, which is more appropriate for the two towns' positions.
  • Rename Treffen am Ossiacher See to simply Treffen. I believe there is no other town with a similar name to distinguish it from.
  • Extend Treffen eastward into Feldkirchen. Its actual position is between Villach and Feldkirchen, so it should at least have a border with both.

• Unterkärnten: Split Bleiburg from Völkermarkt. This is primarily because Völkermarkt is fairly large compared to other Locations in the region and has room to its south. Bleiburg ("Lead Castle") obviously has Lead as a Resource.

Tyrol (incl. Vorarlberg):

• Zillertal:
  • Give Zell am Ziller to Salzburg (the country, not the Province).
  • Remove Wörgl. The Location is incorrect as Wörgl should be approximately where Kufstein is now.
  • Move Zell am Ziller to another Province. Since moving Wörgl leaves only one Location in the Province, Zell should be moved to another Province. I don't see an obvious choice, but Kufstein seems the least wrong.

• Kufstein:
  • Kitzbuhel schould be spelled Kitzbühel.
  • Add Wörgl and change the borders of Kufsteinto make room for it. See map.
    • Note that others have suggested Rattenburg for the same area, which might replace Wörgl. I couldn't say which one is the better choice.
  • Add impassable mountains to the north between Wörgl's new position and Miesbach and to the south between Wörgl/Mittersill and Zell am See/Kitzbühel.
  • Give Kitzbühel, Kufstein, and Wörgl(/Rattenberg) to Upper Bavaria. The area only briefly came under Tyrolean control as a wedding gift to Margarete von Tirol in 1342 but were returned after a few decades. Habsburg control of the area was only established in 1505. Here it is still under Bavarian control in 1392.

• South East Tyrol & South West Tyrol: Rename Eisacktal & Etschtal, respectively. Both names are rather clunky and should ideally be replaced. The alternatives I have suggested are based on the main river valleys in the two respective regions.
  • Even if the names are kept, they should probably at least be in German to maintain consistency: Südosttirol & Südwesttirol.

• Unterinntal: Add impassable mountains dividing Innsbruck and Schwaz from Garmisch.

• Oberinntal:
  • Add Vils as a small Location split off from northern Reutte. This is entirely so Vils can begin under the control of Kempten.
  • Move Reutte and Vils into their own District, called Außenfern. The Reutte area is not technically part of the Inntal, so it would be nice to represent that in the Province structure.
  • Replace Galtür with Landeck. It's the more significant town and holds a much more important position in traversing the Inntal.
  • Replace Obergurgl with Längenfeldand extend its territory northward into Telfs. As has already been discussed in this thread, Obergurgl is currently too tiny to include, but Längenfeld could represent the entire Ötztal. I've also seen Sölden suggested as an alternative.
    • Either way, Wikipedia mentions flax being grown extensively in the Ötztal, so that seems like a good option for the local Resource.
  • Add impassable mountains on either side of Längenfeld blocking access from Nauders and Telfs. Imst should be the central hub for any movement through the Oberinntal.

• Vorarlberg:
  • Change Vorarlberg's area to Eastern Switzerland. The area is not now nor historically part of Tyrol. In terms of culture, language, and history, it is at this point much closer to their fellow Allemannic people in Switzerland.
    • It's terribly Austrocentric, but when reworking the Areas you might consider Further Austria to represent Vorarlberg and the parts of Switzerland that begin under Austrian hegemony. For a more neutral sounding name, you might also consider "Vorlande".
  • Extend Bludenz to the west. As far as I can tell, Bludenz' current position does not actually include the real Bludenz.
  • Add Vaduz. The dream of Liechtenstein will live on! Vaduz begins as a territory or subject of Werdenberg. I'm not sure which Province Vaduz should belong to, but presumably Thurgau.

Spoiler: Various Miscellaneous Things

• Bruneck: Could start with Copper as a Resource, representing the copper mines in Prettau.
• Görz Dynasty: Perhaps rename to von Meinhard, as they were also known as Meinhardiner.
  • Rename Gorizia to Görz while the rulers are (presumably) from a German culture.
• Lower and Upper Austria: For more historical names could be called Österreich ob der Enns/Austria Above the Enns and Österreich unter der Enns/Austria Below the Enns, though both names are quite a mouthful. Frankly, I think both areas could just be combined into a single Austria region, representing the relatively high degree of control exerted by Vienna (relative to the rest of the HRE, that is).
• Southern Bavarian culture: Perhaps rename to Alpine Bavarian so both Bavarian sub-cultures are consistently named after their geographical areas.
• Steyr: Should start with Salt as a Resource, representing the salt mines of Bad Hall.
• Steyr & Waidhofen an der Ybbs: Both towns were part of the "Eisenwurzen" regions and had strong, competing iron industries. Ideally they should start with buildings that represent smithing and ironworking (only rivalled by the ironworkers of Leoben).
• Tirol (the country): Currently spelled in German (Tirol) unlike other countries which have their English names. Rename Tyrol.
• Tyrol and Trentino (area): Should simply be named Tyrol.

 

[Znikii]

I like you changes. Territory of Celje is the only jarring thing standing out. It suffers the Slesian Polish-German border syndrome imo...
I would suggest cutting in half with northeren teritorry be named Underauburg (Dravograd) or Windischgratz (Slovenj Gradec).
I would also add another impassible terrain between Bleiburg and Ljubljana. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karawanks
There is a reason why even now, 2 main trade routs from one end of Amber road, from south to north, starts at north Adriatic ->Ljubljana -> Austria, forks in Ljubljana. One going via Klagenfurt over Alpine pass other via Maribor-Graz on a border region between Alps and Pannonian basin (with a third route N. Adriatic -> Maribor/Zagreb -> Buda-Pest and the Denube, the Highway of premoderen Central Europe,.... cant wait for river tt ).
.Not sure, if Klagenfurt and Villach are a tiny bit too far west or is tilted map projection playing tricks...

 

[Duplodragon]

Darmstadt should be owned by the County of Katzenelnbogen. They also held the region south of Diez where the city of Katzenelnbogen is located. They were quite wealthy due to their crucial role in the region's trade.

 

[_M1s]

Some of the culture splits in Germany seem very silly to me.
The german dialect split into high german (in southern germany) and low german (in northern germany) with the Second German Consonant Shift around the year 800. So this is fine to me.
Now the High German split into Alemannic and Bavarian should've only started to happen with the creation of the Duchy of Bavaria, as this split was fueled by Bavarias borders and with it isolation to the other High Germans to the West as mentioned in "KLEINER SPRACHATLAS VON BAYERISCH-SCHWABEN" by König & Renn (2007). The book furthermore mentions that this split happened fairly late. Now we don't have an exact date on this, I'd personally guess the earliest such strict borders that limited linguistic exchange could be implemented in the 13th century leading up to the Great Interregnum. But anyways, even if this split happened sooner, I am also fine with Bavarian being its separate culture. What I do think is extreme however, is the butchering of the Alemannic dialects into three cultures. Swabian being separate I can take. But the Alemannic split I do not understand.
A split of Alemannic into "Rhine" Alemannic and High alemannic at this point is unrealistic (besides just call it Low Alemannic). Even if you do accept the split between Rhine Alemannic and High Alemannic having already happened it's ridiculous that only the region of modern Alsace is Rhine Alemannic, while the parts in modern Germany that are also "Rhine" Alemannic (linguistically Low Alemannic) are just accounted to Swabian or High Alemannic.

If you do insist on separating Alemannic, then make the corridor where it's mixed Swabian and High Alemannic into Rhine Alemannic. But Ideally you would not make such a separation at all, it's not really accurate for it to have happened in 1337. This is further supported by Kunze's "Historischer Südwestdeutscher Sprachatlas" (1980), where he suggests the separation of Alemannic to Franconian in the north only happened around 1350, meaning deeper splits within the Alemannic linguistic region in 1337 is improbable.

 

[Inzano]

I've collected all my previous suggestions for how to rework Austria (quoted above) in a nice little map for better visualisation. Continuing from Styria and Austria Proper, I've also added a bunch of additional suggestions for Salzburg, Carinthia, Tyrol, and Vorarlberg and revisited some areas I've already talked about. I see less need for rework in the western part of the map, but there's still some room for improvement. Details below.


View attachment 1170267
(Province borders in red, Location borders in yellow, impassable terrain in dark red, and one crudely drawn mountain pass in grey. Borders that are unchanged are left unchanged.)

Spoiler: Locations and Provinces

Austria Proper (Lower and Upper Austria):

• Vienna: Split Enzersdorf from Gänserndorf. This allows you to represent that Enzersdorf was under the control of the Bishopric of Freising at game start. Resource should anything agricultural (representing the Marchfeld's position as "Vienna's Granary").

• Amstetten:
  • Rename Province to Ybbstal. I was sceptical of splitting Amstetten off of Ober-Wienerwald, but I like another user's suggestion to rename the area Ybbstal, which makes sense as a regional distinction.
  • Move Mariazell to Mürztal, as described in my previous comment quoted at the top.
  • Add Scheibbs and Waidhofen an der Ybbs in the place of Mariazell, including some of Amstetten's southern territory in the latter. Waidhofen begins the game under the control of the Bishopric of Freising. Resource for Waidhofen is Fruit (representing the extensive fruit orchards of the Ybbstal). Its shape in my map is based on the outline on this map.

• Traungau:
  • Add Enns. I've made up my mind that Enns is important enough to add and makes sense to fill in the region's geography. Enns and the other Locations replace Lambach as I have laid out in my previous post linked above.
  • Add Ischl, split from Gmunden. Ischl represents the entire Salzkammergut area, which I believe is important enough to represent as a Location, if only for its extensive salt mines. Note that the Location is not yet named Bad Ischl.

• Mühlviertel: Move Linz south of the Danube (as suggested in my previous post). Move Freistatt to take up the bulk of the now empty space and extend Perg. Going back on my previous suggestion, I've dropped Leonfelden and extended both Freistatt and Perg so that the latter can control the entirety of the Machlandviertel (which doesn't make sense as its own Province, but is still nice to represent).

• 'Grafschaft':
  • Add Eferding as a Location. This makes the region a bit tight, but hey, it's the HRE. Eferding's territory includes Schaunberg Castle, the seat of the Counts of Schaunberg (see below).
  • Add Schaunberg as a country and an Austrian subject. Controls Eferding, Linz, Vöcklabruck, and Wels. The capital is Eferding. The Counts of Schaunberg were Austrian vassals in control of the region until the 16th century.
  • Split off Braunau, Ried, and Schärding into a new Province, called Innbaiern or Innviertel. This Province belongs to the Lower Bavaria area. This entire area was under Bavarian control until well into the 18th century so it is too soon to represent it as part of Upper Austria.
    • On the Province name: Innbaiern is the most historically accurate choice but may sound odd if the name is no longer controlled by Bavaria. If this is possible, it might be ideal to give the Province the generic name Innviertel but call it Innbaiern while under the control of Bavaria or one of is constituent parts.
  • Rename the rest of the Province to Hausruckviertel or Schaunberger Landl. Either seems fine. The former is a proper administrative name and fits with the fact that we already have other Viertel represented, but technically only comes into use in the 16th century. The latter is an informal name to the region that survived the Schaunberger by centuries.
    • As above, the most immersive solution would be to name the Province Hausruckviertel but change the name to Schaunberger Landl while it is controlled by Schaunberg.
  • Change the shape of St. Georgen and Vöcklabruck so their border runs north to south. The area is divided by the Attersee, which I believe serves as a more natural border between the two Locations than the current one.

Salzburg:

• Salzburggau: Rename Province to Flaches Land or Flachgau. The area was only named Salzburggau while part of Bavaria and thereafter renamed.
  • For added immersion, the Province could be renamed Salzburggau while it is under the control of Bavaria (or one of the fractured Bavarias).

• Pongau:
  • Rename Bad Hofgastein to Hofgastein. The prefix 'Bad' was only added in 1936.
    • Should have Gold has a Resource, representing the nearby Goldberggruppe.
  • Rename St. Johann in Tirol to St. Johann im Pongau. As the name suggests, St. Johann in Tirol is a different town down in Tyrol. Alternatively, if there is no other Location called St. Johann, just call it St. Johann.

Styria (incl. Slovenia):

• Lungau:
  • Rename to Murtal. As I have previously suggested, the Province needs to be renamed. I have made up my mind that Murtal is the best option. As I've previously discussed, the Province should also include Leoben.
  • Oberwölz should initially belong to Freising.

• Slovenian Locations: The various Slovenian Locations that begin the game under German-speaking rulers should presumably have German names. The corresponding German names would be: Adelsberg (Postojna), Bischofslack (Škofja Loka), Feldes (Bled), Laibach (Ljubljana), Rudolfswerth (Novo mesto).
  • Note that Novo Mesto technically wasn't founded yet at game start. Since I don't know Slovenia I'll leave it at that.

Carinthia:

• Oberkärnten:
  • Split Windisch-Matrei from Lienz. Windisch-Matrei begins under Salzburg's control.
  • Though I'm not entirely clear on this, I believe there should be a passage through the mountains from Windisch-Matrei to Mittersill (the Felber Tauern passage).
  • Move Lienz and Windisch-Matrei into their own Province, called Iseltal. Both towns are in a somewhat difficult inbetween position between Carinthia and Tyrol - at the time I believe they may have been considered Carinthian but they will eventually become East Tyrol. By giving them their own Province, they can more easily shift from the Carinthian to the Tyrolean orbit.
  • Replace Steinfeld with Greifenburg. I'm unclear why Steinfeld was chosen for this Location because it seems rather unimportant. However, Steinfeld was (according to Wikipedia) important as a mining town for Iron, Gold, and "precious metals", so there are several options for Resources.
    • Reduce borders in the northeast to give more room to Spittal, which is more appropriate for the two towns' positions.
  • Rename Treffen am Ossiacher See to simply Treffen. I believe there is no other town with a similar name to distinguish it from.
  • Extend Treffen eastward into Feldkirchen. Its actual position is between Villach and Feldkirchen, so it should at least have a border with both.

• Unterkärnten: Split Bleiburg from Völkermarkt. This is primarily because Völkermarkt is fairly large compared to other Locations in the region and has room to its south. Bleiburg ("Lead Castle") obviously has Lead as a Resource.

Tyrol (incl. Vorarlberg):

• Zillertal:
  • Give Zell am Ziller to Salzburg (the country, not the Province).
  • Remove Wörgl. The Location is incorrect as Wörgl should be approximately where Kufstein is now.
  • Move Zell am Ziller to another Province. Since moving Wörgl leaves only one Location in the Province, Zell should be moved to another Province. I don't see an obvious choice, but Kufstein seems the least wrong.

• Kufstein:
  • Kitzbuhel schould be spelled Kitzbühel.
  • Add Wörgl and change the borders of Kufsteinto make room for it. See map.
    • Note that others have suggested Rattenburg for the same area, which might replace Wörgl. I couldn't say which one is the better choice.
  • Add impassable mountains to the north between Wörgl's new position and Miesbach and to the south between Wörgl/Mittersill and Zell am See/Kitzbühel.
  • Give Kitzbühel, Kufstein, and Wörgl(/Rattenberg) to Upper Bavaria. The area only briefly came under Tyrolean control as a wedding gift to Margarete von Tirol in 1342 but were returned after a few decades. Habsburg control of the area was only established in 1505. Here it is still under Bavarian control in 1392.

• South East Tyrol & South West Tyrol: Rename Eisacktal & Etschtal, respectively. Both names are rather clunky and should ideally be replaced. The alternatives I have suggested are based on the main river valleys in the two respective regions.
  • Even if the names are kept, they should probably at least be in German to maintain consistency: Südosttirol & Südwesttirol.

• Unterinntal: Add impassable mountains dividing Innsbruck and Schwaz from Garmisch.

• Oberinntal:
  • Add Vils as a small Location split off from northern Reutte. This is entirely so Vils can begin under the control of Kempten.
  • Move Reutte and Vils into their own District, called Außenfern. The Reutte area is not technically part of the Inntal, so it would be nice to represent that in the Province structure.
  • Replace Galtür with Landeck. It's the more significant town and holds a much more important position in traversing the Inntal.
  • Replace Obergurgl with Längenfeldand extend its territory northward into Telfs. As has already been discussed in this thread, Obergurgl is currently too tiny to include, but Längenfeld could represent the entire Ötztal. I've also seen Sölden suggested as an alternative.
    • Either way, Wikipedia mentions flax being grown extensively in the Ötztal, so that seems like a good option for the local Resource.
  • Add impassable mountains on either side of Längenfeld blocking access from Nauders and Telfs. Imst should be the central hub for any movement through the Oberinntal.

• Vorarlberg:
  • Change Vorarlberg's area to Eastern Switzerland. The area is not now nor historically part of Tyrol. In terms of culture, language, and history, it is at this point much closer to their fellow Allemannic people in Switzerland.
    • It's terribly Austrocentric, but when reworking the Areas you might consider Further Austria to represent Vorarlberg and the parts of Switzerland that begin under Austrian hegemony. For a more neutral sounding name, you might also consider "Vorlande".
  • Extend Bludenz to the west. As far as I can tell, Bludenz' current position does not actually include the real Bludenz.
  • Add Vaduz. The dream of Liechtenstein will live on! Vaduz begins as a territory or subject of Werdenberg. I'm not sure which Province Vaduz should belong to, but presumably Thurgau.

Spoiler: Various Miscellaneous Things

• Bruneck: Could start with Copper as a Resource, representing the copper mines in Prettau.
• Görz Dynasty: Perhaps rename to von Meinhard, as they were also known as Meinhardiner.
  • Rename Gorizia to Görz while the rulers are (presumably) from a German culture.
• Lower and Upper Austria: For more historical names could be called Österreich ob der Enns/Austria Above the Enns and Österreich unter der Enns/Austria Below the Enns, though both names are quite a mouthful. Frankly, I think both areas could just be combined into a single Austria region, representing the relatively high degree of control exerted by Vienna (relative to the rest of the HRE, that is).
• Southern Bavarian culture: Perhaps rename to Alpine Bavarian so both Bavarian sub-cultures are consistently named after their geographical areas.
• Steyr: Should start with Salt as a Resource, representing the salt mines of Bad Hall.
• Steyr & Waidhofen an der Ybbs: Both towns were part of the "Eisenwurzen" regions and had strong, competing iron industries. Ideally they should start with buildings that represent smithing and ironworking (only rivalled by the ironworkers of Leoben).
• Tirol (the country): Currently spelled in German (Tirol) unlike other countries which have their English names. Rename Tyrol.
• Tyrol and Trentino (area): Should simply be named Tyrol.

Spittal is the green dot, and the Spittal in game is Gmünd.

 

[mathuser]

The Margraviate of Lusatia. But I think that in 1337 it should be incorporated into Brandenburg, and just be kept as a revolter tag, though; I'll double-check with the team.

Maybe Lusatia could be a dominion similar to Scania. Lusatia was sold to Emperor Charles IV in 1367 and incorporated into the Lands of the Bohemian Crown.

 

[Palando]

I've collected all my previous suggestions for how to rework Austria (quoted above) in a nice little map for better visualisation. Continuing from Styria and Austria Proper, I've also added a bunch of additional suggestions for Salzburg, Carinthia, Tyrol, and Vorarlberg and revisited some areas I've already talked about. I see less need for rework in the western part of the map, but there's still some room for improvement. Details below.


View attachment 1170267
(Province borders in red, Location borders in yellow, impassable terrain in dark red, and one crudely drawn mountain pass in grey. Borders that are unchanged are left unchanged.)

Spoiler: Locations and Provinces

Austria Proper (Lower and Upper Austria):

• Vienna: Split Enzersdorf from Gänserndorf. This allows you to represent that Enzersdorf was under the control of the Bishopric of Freising at game start. Resource should anything agricultural (representing the Marchfeld's position as "Vienna's Granary").

• Amstetten:
  • Rename Province to Ybbstal. I was sceptical of splitting Amstetten off of Ober-Wienerwald, but I like another user's suggestion to rename the area Ybbstal, which makes sense as a regional distinction.
  • Move Mariazell to Mürztal, as described in my previous comment quoted at the top.
  • Add Scheibbs and Waidhofen an der Ybbs in the place of Mariazell, including some of Amstetten's southern territory in the latter. Waidhofen begins the game under the control of the Bishopric of Freising. Resource for Waidhofen is Fruit (representing the extensive fruit orchards of the Ybbstal). Its shape in my map is based on the outline on this map.

• Traungau:
  • Add Enns. I've made up my mind that Enns is important enough to add and makes sense to fill in the region's geography. Enns and the other Locations replace Lambach as I have laid out in my previous post linked above.
  • Add Ischl, split from Gmunden. Ischl represents the entire Salzkammergut area, which I believe is important enough to represent as a Location, if only for its extensive salt mines. Note that the Location is not yet named Bad Ischl.

• Mühlviertel: Move Linz south of the Danube (as suggested in my previous post). Move Freistatt to take up the bulk of the now empty space and extend Perg. Going back on my previous suggestion, I've dropped Leonfelden and extended both Freistatt and Perg so that the latter can control the entirety of the Machlandviertel (which doesn't make sense as its own Province, but is still nice to represent).

• 'Grafschaft':
  • Add Eferding as a Location. This makes the region a bit tight, but hey, it's the HRE. Eferding's territory includes Schaunberg Castle, the seat of the Counts of Schaunberg (see below).
  • Add Schaunberg as a country and an Austrian subject. Controls Eferding, Linz, Vöcklabruck, and Wels. The capital is Eferding. The Counts of Schaunberg were Austrian vassals in control of the region until the 16th century.
  • Split off Braunau, Ried, and Schärding into a new Province, called Innbaiern or Innviertel. This Province belongs to the Lower Bavaria area. This entire area was under Bavarian control until well into the 18th century so it is too soon to represent it as part of Upper Austria.
    • On the Province name: Innbaiern is the most historically accurate choice but may sound odd if the name is no longer controlled by Bavaria. If this is possible, it might be ideal to give the Province the generic name Innviertel but call it Innbaiern while under the control of Bavaria or one of is constituent parts.
  • Rename the rest of the Province to Hausruckviertel or Schaunberger Landl. Either seems fine. The former is a proper administrative name and fits with the fact that we already have other Viertel represented, but technically only comes into use in the 16th century. The latter is an informal name to the region that survived the Schaunberger by centuries.
    • As above, the most immersive solution would be to name the Province Hausruckviertel but change the name to Schaunberger Landl while it is controlled by Schaunberg.
  • Change the shape of St. Georgen and Vöcklabruck so their border runs north to south. The area is divided by the Attersee, which I believe serves as a more natural border between the two Locations than the current one.

Salzburg:

• Salzburggau: Rename Province to Flaches Land or Flachgau. The area was only named Salzburggau while part of Bavaria and thereafter renamed.
  • For added immersion, the Province could be renamed Salzburggau while it is under the control of Bavaria (or one of the fractured Bavarias).

• Pongau:
  • Rename Bad Hofgastein to Hofgastein. The prefix 'Bad' was only added in 1936.
    • Should have Gold has a Resource, representing the nearby Goldberggruppe.
  • Rename St. Johann in Tirol to St. Johann im Pongau. As the name suggests, St. Johann in Tirol is a different town down in Tyrol. Alternatively, if there is no other Location called St. Johann, just call it St. Johann.

Styria (incl. Slovenia):

• Lungau:
  • Rename to Murtal. As I have previously suggested, the Province needs to be renamed. I have made up my mind that Murtal is the best option. As I've previously discussed, the Province should also include Leoben.
  • Oberwölz should initially belong to Freising.

• Slovenian Locations: The various Slovenian Locations that begin the game under German-speaking rulers should presumably have German names. The corresponding German names would be: Adelsberg (Postojna), Bischofslack (Škofja Loka), Feldes (Bled), Laibach (Ljubljana), Rudolfswerth (Novo mesto).
  • Note that Novo Mesto technically wasn't founded yet at game start. Since I don't know Slovenia I'll leave it at that.

Carinthia:

• Oberkärnten:
  • Split Windisch-Matrei from Lienz. Windisch-Matrei begins under Salzburg's control.
  • Though I'm not entirely clear on this, I believe there should be a passage through the mountains from Windisch-Matrei to Mittersill (the Felber Tauern passage).
  • Move Lienz and Windisch-Matrei into their own Province, called Iseltal. Both towns are in a somewhat difficult inbetween position between Carinthia and Tyrol - at the time I believe they may have been considered Carinthian but they will eventually become East Tyrol. By giving them their own Province, they can more easily shift from the Carinthian to the Tyrolean orbit.
  • Replace Steinfeld with Greifenburg. I'm unclear why Steinfeld was chosen for this Location because it seems rather unimportant. However, Steinfeld was (according to Wikipedia) important as a mining town for Iron, Gold, and "precious metals", so there are several options for Resources.
    • Reduce borders in the northeast to give more room to Spittal, which is more appropriate for the two towns' positions.
  • Rename Treffen am Ossiacher See to simply Treffen. I believe there is no other town with a similar name to distinguish it from.
  • Extend Treffen eastward into Feldkirchen. Its actual position is between Villach and Feldkirchen, so it should at least have a border with both.

• Unterkärnten: Split Bleiburg from Völkermarkt. This is primarily because Völkermarkt is fairly large compared to other Locations in the region and has room to its south. Bleiburg ("Lead Castle") obviously has Lead as a Resource.

Tyrol (incl. Vorarlberg):

• Zillertal:
  • Give Zell am Ziller to Salzburg (the country, not the Province).
  • Remove Wörgl. The Location is incorrect as Wörgl should be approximately where Kufstein is now.
  • Move Zell am Ziller to another Province. Since moving Wörgl leaves only one Location in the Province, Zell should be moved to another Province. I don't see an obvious choice, but Kufstein seems the least wrong.

• Kufstein:
  • Kitzbuhel schould be spelled Kitzbühel.
  • Add Wörgl and change the borders of Kufsteinto make room for it. See map.
    • Note that others have suggested Rattenburg for the same area, which might replace Wörgl. I couldn't say which one is the better choice.
  • Add impassable mountains to the north between Wörgl's new position and Miesbach and to the south between Wörgl/Mittersill and Zell am See/Kitzbühel.
  • Give Kitzbühel, Kufstein, and Wörgl(/Rattenberg) to Upper Bavaria. The area only briefly came under Tyrolean control as a wedding gift to Margarete von Tirol in 1342 but were returned after a few decades. Habsburg control of the area was only established in 1505. Here it is still under Bavarian control in 1392.

• South East Tyrol & South West Tyrol: Rename Eisacktal & Etschtal, respectively. Both names are rather clunky and should ideally be replaced. The alternatives I have suggested are based on the main river valleys in the two respective regions.
  • Even if the names are kept, they should probably at least be in German to maintain consistency: Südosttirol & Südwesttirol.

• Unterinntal: Add impassable mountains dividing Innsbruck and Schwaz from Garmisch.

• Oberinntal:
  • Add Vils as a small Location split off from northern Reutte. This is entirely so Vils can begin under the control of Kempten.
  • Move Reutte and Vils into their own District, called Außenfern. The Reutte area is not technically part of the Inntal, so it would be nice to represent that in the Province structure.
  • Replace Galtür with Landeck. It's the more significant town and holds a much more important position in traversing the Inntal.
  • Replace Obergurgl with Längenfeldand extend its territory northward into Telfs. As has already been discussed in this thread, Obergurgl is currently too tiny to include, but Längenfeld could represent the entire Ötztal. I've also seen Sölden suggested as an alternative.
    • Either way, Wikipedia mentions flax being grown extensively in the Ötztal, so that seems like a good option for the local Resource.
  • Add impassable mountains on either side of Längenfeld blocking access from Nauders and Telfs. Imst should be the central hub for any movement through the Oberinntal.

• Vorarlberg:
  • Change Vorarlberg's area to Eastern Switzerland. The area is not now nor historically part of Tyrol. In terms of culture, language, and history, it is at this point much closer to their fellow Allemannic people in Switzerland.
    • It's terribly Austrocentric, but when reworking the Areas you might consider Further Austria to represent Vorarlberg and the parts of Switzerland that begin under Austrian hegemony. For a more neutral sounding name, you might also consider "Vorlande".
  • Extend Bludenz to the west. As far as I can tell, Bludenz' current position does not actually include the real Bludenz.
  • Add Vaduz. The dream of Liechtenstein will live on! Vaduz begins as a territory or subject of Werdenberg. I'm not sure which Province Vaduz should belong to, but presumably Thurgau.

Spoiler: Various Miscellaneous Things

• Bruneck: Could start with Copper as a Resource, representing the copper mines in Prettau.
• Görz Dynasty: Perhaps rename to von Meinhard, as they were also known as Meinhardiner.
  • Rename Gorizia to Görz while the rulers are (presumably) from a German culture.
• Lower and Upper Austria: For more historical names could be called Österreich ob der Enns/Austria Above the Enns and Österreich unter der Enns/Austria Below the Enns, though both names are quite a mouthful. Frankly, I think both areas could just be combined into a single Austria region, representing the relatively high degree of control exerted by Vienna (relative to the rest of the HRE, that is).
• Southern Bavarian culture: Perhaps rename to Alpine Bavarian so both Bavarian sub-cultures are consistently named after their geographical areas.
• Steyr: Should start with Salt as a Resource, representing the salt mines of Bad Hall.
• Steyr & Waidhofen an der Ybbs: Both towns were part of the "Eisenwurzen" regions and had strong, competing iron industries. Ideally they should start with buildings that represent smithing and ironworking (only rivalled by the ironworkers of Leoben).
• Tirol (the country): Currently spelled in German (Tirol) unlike other countries which have their English names. Rename Tyrol.
• Tyrol and Trentino (area): Should simply be named Tyrol.

So in general, most of those province sizes are extremely small. This would require redoing the rest of the HRE with similar sizes and then again the rest of Europe. I doubt that this will happen.

Ischl became only important in te 19th century as spa. Lauffen and Hallstatt were the two market towns of the area. The former the earlier one whereas Hallstatt was elevated in 1311.

The shape of the Attergau was actually like this

I agree with Landeck being more important than what they choose there.

It would be better to remove Treffen entirely and have Spittal be the province in the centre and Gmünd the northern province in Western Carinthia.
Spittal and its surroundings were the capita of the County of Ortenburg and Gmünd was a territory owned by Salzburg for a long time.

I'll link to my proposal where you can also see this split better (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...h-of-july-2024-germany.1696699/#post-29791531):

Why do you want to add Lonsperch (Deutschlandsberg)? Eibiswald would at least have a different lord (Lords of Duino).


It should remain von Görz, because 'Meinhardiner' wasn't used by them. It stems from most of their rulers being named Meinhard and nothing more.

 

[Znikii]

Hmmm note for the future self: a lot of those territories in carniola, carinthia and lower styria were not hereditary, but given or rented for a period of time. So make a list of those places

 

[Inzano]

Hmmm note for the future self: a lot of those territories in carniola, carinthia and lower styria were not hereditary, but given or rented for a period of time. So make a list of those places

Most only those lordships that were under direct control from the Habsburgs were not heraldic, the rest were.

 

[Ekyman]

Spittal is the green dot, and the Spittal in game is Gmünd.

Both Spittal and Treffen (am Ossiacher See) don't contain the towns that give them their name.

That's hand-aligned so if it's off a little bit one of them could be fine but I don't see how they both could be correct.

 

[Palando]

Both Spittal and Treffen (am Ossiacher See) don't contain the towns that give them their name.

View attachment 1170365

That's hand-aligned so if it's off a little bit one of them could be fine but I don't see how they both could be fine.

Thanks for that map. Like said earlier, the easiest and probably best way would be to make Spittal the central province (capital of Ortenburg) and rename the northern province to Gmünd (territory of Salzburg).

 

[turokhalo]

Hey, as many before me have already stated, Dithmarschen should not include the peninsula of Eiderstedt in the north and also the population is definately to high. Half of this would make more sense, but would probably also to high.

Also, regarding the location, naming it "Meldorf" instead of "Heide" may be better, since Heide simply did not exist at the start of the game and Meldorf was the more important "city" throughout most of the games timeline.

Any chance of getting historical coastlines in the game? Dithmarschen for example got most of its characteristic shape in the 19th and 20th century, but in the game it is already like this.

An example of a more historically acurate coastline can be found in the following pictures.

 

[Palando]

I've collected all my previous suggestions for how to rework Austria (quoted above) in a nice little map for better visualisation. Continuing from Styria and Austria Proper, I've also added a bunch of additional suggestions for Salzburg, Carinthia, Tyrol, and Vorarlberg and revisited some areas I've already talked about. I see less need for rework in the western part of the map, but there's still some room for improvement. Details below.


View attachment 1170267
(Province borders in red, Location borders in yellow, impassable terrain in dark red, and one crudely drawn mountain pass in grey. Borders that are unchanged are left unchanged.)

So I had a look at the impassables, too. Garmisch - Innsbruck should be left as it is, as there are two passes between the provinces.

Miesbach - Kufstein is probably warranted.

Längenfeld - Telfs should be connected as their respective valleys are connected.

Itter / Wörgl - Mittersill are also not connected directly via passes (either via Kitzbühl or Zell).

 

[Pavía]

Is Moravia a dominion-type vassal of Bohemia, while the Silesian states are regular vassals?

Are there any more dominions in the HRE? And what about other forms of vassalage?

1. Moravia is a fiefdom, which is a closer type of subject compared to a regular vassal.
2. The county of Zeeland is also a fiefdom of Holland.

 

[Pavía]

Does partition succession depend on having releasable tags, or will it create location-based tags as necessary à la Crusader Kings?

The second.

 

[ArVass]

1. Moravia is a fiefdom, which is a closer type of subject compared to a regular vassal.
2. The county of Zeeland is also a fiefdom of Holland.

Fiefdom, that's a new one; how many vassal types do you have in total currently? And are you planning on adding more after a while?

 

[Baphomet enjoyer]

The second.

Are the flags of these released countries procedurally generated or are they selected from a pool of generic flags?