Tinto Maps #18 - 13th of September 2024 - Persia & Caucasus

[BeyondExpectation]

It's not that it's a matter of sooner or later, like a timer ticking on a separatist movement which you could use harsh treatment on to give you a little more time.

Hasan Kucek of the Chobanids is already rallying troops and about to march East to put his own puppet in Tabriz, and Hasan Buzurg was in no position to put a stop to it other than face him in battle. I would argue it is a rather unavoidable historical reality for Hasan Kucek to fight the Jalayirids, unless you take him out of the picture entirely via mysterious assassination.

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This makes it sound like the rebellion should already be in progress.

1. To avoid the Chobanids AI getting stuck along the way (highly likely due to needing multiple military accesses + hostility to the Eretnids who would have multiple forts in the way, when historically the Eretnids did nothing/could do nothing to stop the Chobanids)
   
   
2. To avoid the Chobanid army from dying to attrition along the way
   
   
3. Allow the Jalayirids player to switch over to playing as the Chobanids if they wanted to
   
   
4. Make the Chobanids the formidable third party faction that they were. And without a source of resources/troops from the game start, which they don't have as they didn't own land in April 1337, they would never be able to do that. So they need event spawn troops instead, which is basically how it went, as he was described to have invited and attracted adventurous youth and ragtag bands of soldiers along his march, swelling into an army.

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Given we don't know how exactly military access of rebellions or sieges work, isn't it far too early to say that the game needs such ahistoricity to force a more historic outcome?

 

[SuperLexxe]

This makes it sound like the rebellion should already be in progress.



Given we don't know how exactly military access of rebellions or sieges work, isn't it far too early to say that the game needs such ahistoricity to force a more historic outcome?

You can always suggest better alternatives using the mechanics that we do know about.

 

[GenericUsername1444]

Economy of Georgia
Part 1
​

Extreme nerd scheisse ahead. You have been warned.

The matter of the Georgian economy in the high to late middle ages is extremely controversial, and not without reason. There is very little information about the state income of the country even before the Mongol conquest, but we have to make do with what we have. In this post I will try to find relevant information about the country in order for it to be better represented in-game at the game start in 1337.


According to Apolon Tabuashvili in his seminal work "Economic History of Feudal Georgia":
(translation by me).

"The income of the feudal Georgian state, as with all contemporary countries of the era, was mainly comprised of taxes from the serfs, urban inhabitants, customs duties, state monopolies, and other similar things. In the 12th and the early 13th century, an important part of the state revenue was occupied by the tributes received from the vassal states. Obviously, part of the tributes were collected in kind, and part in the form of money.

Unfortunately, the lack of information does not allow us to consider the amount of taxes by themselves in detail. However, important information about the total revenues of the united Georgian state and the tribute paid to the Mongols is provided by Hamdallah Qazvini, an author in the first half of the 14th century, who was a senior official in the financial department of the Ilkhanate, and, accordingly, had access to the relevant tax lists.

In the sixth chapter of the work "Nuzhat al-Qulub", which is entitled "Mention of the cities of Abkhaz(et) and Sakartvelo", written in 1339/1340, tells us: "... its borders are adjacent to Arran, Armenia and Rome. State revenue during the time of the local kings of this country was approximately five hundred tomans, and now it is one hundred and twenty tomans and two thousand dinars. Tbilisi is the capital city of Georgia and Abkhazia".

Hamdallah Qazvini mentioned of the incomes of other countries of his era that the said sums were recorded in the Mongol tax books. Therefore, 120 tomans and 2000 dinars was the tribute paid to the Mongols. Thus, according to Hamdallah Qazvini, the state revenues of the Kingdom of Georgia during the Mongol dominion amounted to 500 Mongolian tomans, and the amount of tribute paid to the Mongols was 120 tomans and 2000 dinars.

V. Bartold was first to draw attention to this source. According to his explanation, the Mongolian toman contained 10,000 silver dinars, and a dinar was equal to 6 dirhams. As a result of the financial reforms of Ghazan Khan (1295-1304), the weight of the dinar was defined as 3 mithqals, and during the rule of Abu Said Khan (1316-1335), it was reduced to two miskhals. In summary, at the time of Ghazan, 1 Mongolian toman contained 60,000 dirhams, that is, the same amount of drams of reduced weight.

V. Bartold considered 1 dinar to be equivalent to 75 Russian kopecks of 1911, and added that before the Mongols, the state revenues of Georgia were equal to 3,750,000 Russian manats (rubles), and the tribute paid to the Ilkhanate was 901,500 manats (rubles).

Thus, According to Bartold, the 500 tomans named by Hamdallah Qazvini as the state income of Georgia contained 5,000,000 dinars (500×10,000=5,000,000)."


Below is the chart made according to Hamdallah Qazvini's information regarding the pre-Mongol incomes of the respective regions and the post-Mongol state revenues. I slightly modified the chart from the source in order to better illustrate the economic disparities between the wealthier regions, such as Iraq, with less developed ones, such as eastern Persia. I basically sorted the chart by income. Also, because this forum hates me, the chart looks terrible (can't make a table bigger than 10x10), and I would like to sincerely apologise to all readers for this, especially to those with OCD.

​

COUNTRY​	STATE INCOME BEFORE MONGOL CONQUEST​	MONGOL TRIBUTE​
​ Arab Iraq (Iraq of the Arabs)​	3,000 tomans or 30,000,000 dinars​	300 tomans, or 3,000,000 dinars​
Persian Iraq (Eraq-e Ajam)​	2,520 tomans or 25,200,000 dinars​	225 tomans and 1,600 dinars, or 2,351,600 dinars​
Azerbaijan (Adurbadagan)​	2,000 tomans or 20,000,000 dinars​	216 tomans and 400 dinars, or 2,160,400 dinars​
Rome (Rum)​	1,500 tomans or 15,000,000 dinars​	330 tomans, or 3,330,000 dinars​
Fars​	1,050 tomans or 10,500,000 dinars​	287 tomans and 1,200 dinars, or 2,871,200 dinars​
Diyar Bakr and Diyar Rabia (Al-Jazira)​	1,000 tomans or 10,000,000 dinars​	1,925,000 dinars​
Georgia​	500 tomans or 5,000,000 dinars ​	120 tomans and 2,000 dinars, or 1,202,000 dinars​
Khuzestan​	300 tomans or 3,000,000 dinars​	32 tomans and 5,000 dinars, or 325,000 dinars​
Arran and Mughan​	300 tomans or 3,000,000 dinars​	30 tomans and 3,000 dinars, or 303,000 dinars​
Greater Armenia​	200 tomans or 2,000,000 dinars​	39 tomans, or 390,000 dinars ​

Kurdistan​	200 tomans or 2,000,000 dinars​	20 tomans and 1,500 dinars, or 201,500 dinars​
Shabankara​	200 tomans or 2,000,000 dinars​	26 tomans and 6,100 dinars, or 266,100 dinars​
Shirvan​	100 tomans or 1,000,000 dinars​	11 tomans and 300 dinars, or 113,000 dinars​
Gushtasp (Bactria)​	100 tomans or 1,000,000 dinars​	118,000 dinars​
Kerman​	88 tomans or 880,000 dinars​	67 tomans and 6,500 dinars, or 676,500 dinars​
Total​	10,058 tomans or 100,000,580 dinars​	1,920 tomans and 3,800 dinars, or 19,203,800 dinars​

"As we can see, according to Hamdallah Qazvini, the revenues of the countries of the entire region in the pre-Mongol era exceeded 10,000 tomans, while the revenues of the Ilkhanate itself reached 2,000 tomans.

According to the report of Hamdallah Qazvini, it is clear that the total revenues of the state of the Ilkhans before Ghazan Khan amounted to 1700 tomans, and during Ghazan's time it was 2100 tomans, and during Abu Said's it was half of that. As R. Kiknadze notes, the income shown by the author as the income of Ilkhans, approx. 2000 tomans, were not the reality of his era, but were in fact the revenues of the earlier period, of Ghazan's and Oljaitu's.

According to Hamdallah Qazvini, during the period of independence, only 5 states or provinces of the region had greater revenues than Georgia. Also, few countries and provinces paid more Mongolian taxes than Georgia.

Georgian historiography has paid attention to the aforementioned information. I. Javakhishvili, K. Grigolia, V. Donduva, V. Gabashvili, D. Katsitatdze, and other authors, argue that the 500 tomans, i.e. 5,000,000 dinars named by Hamdallah Qazvini, are not contemporaneous with other states/regions, meaning that the revenue of 500 tomans represents the state income of the Georgian "Golden Age". Different opinions are also expressed, in particular, S. Kakabadze considered the 500 tomans as the amount of tribute paid by Georgia to the Mongols in the second half of the 13th century, and 120 tomans and 2000 dinars as the tribute during the 1330s. According to R. Kiknadze, the 500 tomans were a tribute to be paid to the Seljuks during the "Great Turkish Invasion" (1080).

Here's R. Kikinadze's view regarding the sum of money paid to the Ilkhanate according to Qazvini:

Spoiler

"Therefore, we think that the 500 tomans named by Hamdallah Qazvini, or in total four times more than what the conquered-destroyed country in the 14th century had to pay to the Ilkhanate cannot be the income of the politically and economically powerful Georgia's total income during the reign of Tamar.

As has been mentioned many times, Hamdallah Qazvini used Eastern tax books when compiling his works. From these he gathered information about the income of various countries, both during the pre-Mongol period, and during Mongol rule. Even V. Bartold noted that, as for the income of Georgia during the reign of the kings of the pre-Mongol period, it is doubtful that Hamdallah Qazvini used any documentary sources. Indeed, our author would not have found any information about the income of independent Georgia in any Eastern tax book, since these books recorded only the income of the Divan of the corresponding Eastern state. Georgian income would have been included in these books only if it had been paid into the treasury of some Eastern country as a tribute.

Hamdallah Qazvini repeatedly mentions the “Malik-Shah’s Resale”, which, apparently, was an official census of the Seljuk state. From this, Hamdallah must have gathered information about the revenues of various countries during the Seljuk period. We think that it was from the “Malik Shah’s Resale” that Hamdallah extracted information about the revenues of Georgia during the time of the “local kings.”

In 1080, the Great Turkish Invasion began in Georgia. The enemy devastated a large part of the country and massacred a large number of people. King George II decided to submit to the Turks and met with Sultan Malik-Shah in Isfahan. Malik-Shah promised the king peace and showed mercy, “except for the tribute he demanded from his kingdom, which he would receive for many years."

Of the aforementioned authors, only I. Javakhishvili has touched upon the subject in detail [...]. I. Javakhishvili refers to the 120 tomans and 2,000 dinars paid by Georgia in the Mongol ledgers and notes that this amount was not state income, but a tribute. The author also discusses in detail the state income of independent Georgia - 500 tomans. In his opinion, since the annual income of only 3 tributary countries of Georgia - Arran, Armenia and Shirvan before the Mongols was 300, 200 and 100 tomans, or 600 tomans in total, the tribute paid by the tributary countries was not included in the income of Georgia, i.e. the 500 tomans. Thus, I. Javakhishvili believes that 500 tomans was Georgia's income without the taxes of the former Georgian vassal countries.

In our opinion, the data of this Iranian author should be considered reliable, considering his field of activity. We think that the monetary amounts named by the Iranian author are in accordance with logic and, at the same time, do not completely change the general idea about the political and economic strength of Georgia during the era of Tamar. In particular, as Hamdallah Qazvini tells us that in the era of independence, the income of Georgia exceeded the incomes of Shirvan 5 times, and the income of Greater Armenia 2,5 times, that is, the state of Shah-Armens. We also consider it quite natural that the revenues of Rum were 3 times larger than the state revenues of Georgia, because Rum, compared to Georgia, covered much greater territories and controlled strategic trade routes.

[...]. If we take into account the fact that during the rule of Ghazan Khan, according to Hamdallah Qazvini, the revenues of the Ilkhanate were approx. 2000 Mongolian tomans, the income of Georgia, which is several times smaller than that, look even more solid. In a word, we have little reason to doubt Hamdallah Qazvini's reports.

[...]. Finally, based on the above-stated discussion, we note that according to Hamdallah Qazvini, the state revenues of the unified Georgian monarchy at the turn of the 12th-13th centuries, most likely, excluding the tribute from the neighbouring countries, amounted to 500 tomans, or 30,000,000 3-dang (approx. 2,15-gram) dirhams. If we convert the above coins into 3-gram drams, we get 21,500,000 drams. To sum up, the revenues of the Georgian state at the turn of the 12th-13th centuries, excluding the tribute from the neighbouring countries, amounted to 21,500,000 drams.

For comparison, at the beginning of the 11th century, the total income of the Byzantine Empire amounted to 5,895,000 nomismas, and, as I. Javakhishvili noted, the income of the King of England in 1300 was 4,000,000 gold francs, and in 1311 the income of France was 3,000,000 francs. As we have seen above, the revenues of the Seljuk Sultanate of Rum in the pre-Mongol era amounted to 1500 tomans, or approx. It was equal to 5-6 million gold dinars. Thus, the total revenues of the unified Georgian monarchy, including the tribute paid by the tributary countries, were not much lower than the revenues of the world's leading countries of that era, which indicates its strength."

So, to summarise...

I personally subscribe to R. Kikinadze's belief that the named 500 tomans was in fact taken from a much older source, and didn't reflect the wealth of the kingdom at the time, as in reality it was the tribute paid to the Seljuks over 250 years prior.

The other numbers, namely the 120 tomans and 2000 dinars, was most likely a tribute (a tithe, maybe more) and not the total state income of the kingdom. This is unsurprising, as the rest of the middle eastern holdings of the Ilkhanate were directly incorporated, unlike with (eastern) Georgia which remained a vassal kingdom for the entire duration of the empire's existence. We can extrapolate that the total income of all Georgian lands (considering the Mongols only controlled southern and eastern Georgia), in addition to the many vassals surrounding Georgia in 1337, would've been at least 10 times greater.

As you can see, this is an incredibly complex topic, so any feedback would be appreciated.

​

How can this information be translated into the game?

Well, I think giving specific regions, like Mesopotamia, a greater amount of development, more agriculturally suitable terrain, and more valuable trade goods could be one solution.

The population and population density, both of which were completely decimated during the Mongol conquest, should correspond with the information above.

To visualise the socio-economic situation in greater Persia and the Caucasus, according to the information above, I've made this simple (awful) map:

Green - higher third
Yellow - middle income
Red - lower income

In the coming weeks I'll likely make a post dedicated to the economy of Georgia with a focus on natural resources and development.

I hope I've made @Aldaron's life a little bit easier.


Sources used:

თაბუაშვილი აპოლონ, "ფეოდალური ხანის საქართველოს ეკონომიკური ისტორია" - "Tabuashvili Apolon, "Economic History of Feudal Georgia", 2020. Pages 165-173. Link

Qazvini Hamdallah Mustawfi, Nuzhat al-Qulub, "Hearts' Bliss", 1340s.

კიკინაძე რევაზ, "საქართველოს ისტორიის წყაროთმცოდნეობის საკითხები II" - Kikinadze Revaz, "Topics of Georgian Sources II", 1992. Pages 169-184. Link

Бартольд Василий, "Персидская надпись на стене анийской мечети Мануче" - Bartold Vasily, "Persian inscription on the Ani mosque", 1911. pages 17-19. Link

Spoiler

@giorgi1999 @Georgian Noble @Lukagen @Ispil @SuperLexxe @racnes @Aramenian

​

 

[BeyondExpectation]

You can always suggest better alternatives using the mechanics that we do know about.

Yes, but I have no reason to do so given I don't know if they're sufficient.

 

[AntarcticRanger]

I learn so much reading Tinto map threads, I love it so much.
Is Mediterranean Forest really the best choice for the Caspian coast, an area that contains a full on rainforest though?

 

[GenericUsername1444]

I learn so much reading Tinto map threads, I love it so much.

We've all become historians and ethnographers in this forum, that's for sure.

Is Mediterranean Forest really the best choice for the Caspian coast, an area that contains a full on rainforest though?

It really should be oceanic (like the Pontic coast).

 

[mrandmamad7]

Hi great work to the great team of eu5, but I think there should be less wasteland in the central asia part because uzbeks (bukhara) and Persians (safavids) fought over cities that are now wasteland in this map. (also I think it would be better if around the aral lake not be a wasteland)

 

[Streamlet]

Ok, last post I'll make on Hormuz's borders. I managed to read Jean Aubin's text Les Princes d'Ormuz which does clarify a few things, mainly on this page:

Directly after the conquest of Kish in 1330/1331, Tahamtan went on to conquer Bahrain and the rest of their possessions in the the gulf. There are 2 differing accounts of Kish's possessions in the western gulf. One account is by Natanzi and includes the entire coast from Kalatu to Māchūl in the west. The other account is from Pedro Teixeira's translation of the state history of Hormuz and only includes several islands, though it even admits that Tahamtan 'mastered' and drew tribute from all of the shores of Arabia and Persia.

Going by the most conservative estimate, all sources agree that this area was controlled by Hormuz and can confidently be given to them:

I would also include the island of Derab, which is said to be near the mouth of the Shatt-al-Arab, but I don't feel confident placing it without actually knowing what it refers to. Khark is difficult to represent because it's a small island, so I think the best solution is to merge it with the location of Reyshahr (old name of Bushehr) which was also undoubtedly a part of Hormuz.

Fal is a semi-indepedent lordship governed by the Fali family. Jask and Jagin were possibly governed by the local Arab inhabitans, but were definitely subject to, or closely allied with, Hormuz at this point.

Other regions on the coast were very likely within the political and economic influence of Hormuz, but there's little info on each settlement's specific relationship. Hormuz also had to rely on banning all imports of wood and shipbuilding materials to maintain their hegemony in the gulf.

A more lenient interpretation (i.e. claimed extent):

If you decide on this interpretation, I think the Emirate of Reyshahr could be used to represent the (probably) more indirect control in that region.

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Also, I thought it made sense to change some of the other suggested countries from this thread (tagging @SuperLexxe), I've removed Awal as a vassal state because there wasn't a separate ruler there until after a civil war in 1347 (I'll make a post on this in another thread), and Khunj/Fal was never ruled by a member of the house of Hormuz, I got confused by the wording in another source. Later on, the trade route from Hormuz to Shiraz had to be diverted around Lar; Khunj would own Karzin in the north as that later trade route went through it.

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Les Princes d'Ormuz also includes a family tree of the rulers of Hormuz:

I've drawn white brackets around the people who were actually relevant in 1337, the rest were either dead or had been exiled/imprisoned during previous conflicts. On the right it also includes the ruler of Makran, Malik Dinar (Ghiyāth al-Dīn Dīnār) whose family was related to the kings of Hormuz by marriage.

Here's a list to clarify all the characters of Hormuz:

Spoiler: Characters of Hormuz

Royal family from Aubin:

Quṭb al-Dīn Tahamtan (bin Kurdānshāh), the king of Hormuz.

Turān-Shāh (bin Tahamtan), heir to the throne, no date of birth given but he was more than old enough to become ruler in 1347.

Niẓām al-Dīn Kaiqubād (bin Kurdānshāh), beloved brother of Tahamtan who helped him gain the throne, he later betrayed him by staging a coup, leading to a short civil war and his death.

Shādī (bin Kaiqubād), son of Kaiqubād and his successor in the civil war.

Fulān (bin Shādī), son of Shādī, old enough to govern Bahrain around 1350.

Shanba (bin Kaiqubād), son of Kaiqubād, he was initially the joint ruler with Shādī after Kaiqubād's death, but they fell out and Shanba fled to Fal and the ruler of Shiraz.

Fulāna (bint Kurdānshāh), sister of Tahamtan.

Jalāl al-Dīn al-Kījī, husband of Fulāna, probably from the ruling house of Makran.

'Alī Shāh (bin Jalāl al-Dīn al-Kījī), son of Jalāl al-Dīn, first mentioned by Ibn Battuta in 1347 as "someone he was already acquainted with", to me this suggests he was probably alive in 1337.


Other characters mentioned by Teixeira and Ibn Battuta:

Ayyūb Shams al-Dīn (guess, original spelling is Aieb Xamçadin), a captain.

'Umar Sayf al-Dīn (guess, original spelling is Homer Soiadin), a commander.

Shams al-Dīn Muhammad b. 'Ali, the vizier, probably from the family of officials from Fal.

Imād al-Dīn al-Shawānkāri, the Qadi.

 

[JaddesBarro]

Abkhazians, migrelians, lazs and svans were Georgian people so you can add them to one Kartvelian culture group if you have culture groups mechanics but if you don't you just can make them georgians and most important for the time in abkhazia there were mostly georgians but on the map it shows that its abkhazian majority so can you please unite them or at least increase georgian population percentage

 

[Streamlet]

Ok, last post I'll make on Hormuz's borders.

I lied lol sorry, here's another one

From La Survie de Shīlāu et la Route du Khunj-ō-Fāl, by Jean Aubin

Reading the rest of the document, the separate political formation in Khunj/Fal did exist independently from Lar, but it doesn't seem like it was a distinct country like its neighbours. The area in Fal and Siraf was governed by the Fali family who were subjects of, and very close with, the rulers of Hormuz, meanwhile Khunj was closer with the rulers in Shiraz (i.e the Injuids in 1337).

I'd also now include Machul, Jask, and Jagin as part of Hormuz, since that makes for a more coherent historical narrative (e.g. Jask and Jagin being important bases during the civil war in 1345/6). I'll edit the map in my last post to include all of this.

Also, locations:
- I think Jask and Jagin should be smaller and more confined to the coast
- Shīlāu/Shīlāw is the local (Persian?) name of Siraf, Siraf is the literary Arabic name
- Minab should be more accurately called "Old/Ancient Hormuz" in this time period (I'm not sure how to accurately translate that into Persian/Arabic so I'll leave it to someone else)

 

[SuperLexxe]

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Here are some of the compiled countries, with their titles, types, rulers, dynasties, their rulers' cultures and religions. Many of them are empty due to lack of information, and some I've filled with guesswork.

NOTE: Cultures & Religions are those of the RULER, not necessarily the population

NOTE: Vassal relations are represented by indentations.

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Maps for reference:

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Jalayirid Faction
Puppet Claimant: Ilkhan Muhammad Borjigid

Country	Title (Ruler Title)	Type	Ruler	Dynasty	Culture	Religion
Jalayirids	Ulus (Ulus Beg)	ABC	Hasan Buzurg	Jalayirid	Mongol	Sunni
Shirvan​	Shahdom (Shah)	Settled	Kayqubad I	Kasranid	Adhari	-
Ispahbad​	Principality (Prince)	Settled	Badr al-dīn Mahmūd	Ispahbad	Talysh	-
Khalkhal​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	-	-	Adhari	-
Artaz​	Principality (Prince)	Settled	-	Amatuni	Armenian	Miaphysite
Donboli​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Cemşid	Donboli	Kurdish	Yazidi
Ardalan​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	-	Ardalani	Kurdish	-
Kalhor​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	-	Kalhori	Kurdish	-
Rankali​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Jamal al-Din Talan	Rankali	Kurdish	-
Kelali​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	-	Kelali	Kurdish	-
Hasnuya​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	-	Hasnuya	Kurdish	-
Zebari​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Shabab al-Din	Zebari	Kurdish	-
Saqiyya​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Shuja al-Din Abu Bakr Ramaki	Saqiyya	Kurdish	-
Kurani​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Muhammed	Kurani	Kurdish	-
Hadhur​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Taj al-Din	Hadhuri	Kurdish	-
Kartawi​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Abu Bakr	Kartawi	Kurdish	-
Sabuli​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Burek	Sabuli	Kurdish	-
Hasbani​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Abdallah	Hasbani	Kurdish	-
Merkewan​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	-	Merkewani	Kurdish	-
Eretnids​	Emirate (Emir)	ABC	Ala al-Din Eretna	Eretnid	Uyghur	Sunni
Sutayids​	Ulus (Ulus Beg)	ABC	Hajji Taghay	Sutayid	Mongol	Sunni
Cemisgezek​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	-	Malkishi	Kurdish	-
Çapakçur​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Shap	Suwaydid	Kurdish	-
Egil​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Isa	Bulduqani	Kurdish	-
Hazro​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	-	Zraqi	Kurdish	-
Zirqan​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Zeydo	Zerraki	Kurdish	-
Jolemark​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	-	Jolemarki	Kurdish	-
Bohtan​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Izz al-Din	Bohtani	Kurdish	Yazidi
Mazenjani​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Izz al-Din	Mazenjani	Kurdish	-
Zerzari​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Najm al-Din	Zerzari	Kurdish	-
Hakkari​	Malikate (Malik)	Settled	Xars al-Din	Hakkari	Kurdish	-
Sohri​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Hosam	Sohri	Kurdish	-
Donboli-Bosht​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	-	Donboli	Kurdish	Yazidi
Dasni​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Ala al-Din Kurek ibn Ibrahim	Dasni	Kurdish	Yazidi
Bitlis​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Dia' al-Din	Ruzagi	Kurdish	-
Mus​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Shams al-Din	Ruzagi	Kurdish	-
Hizan​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	-	-	Kurdish	-

---

Borjigid Faction
Independent Claimant(s): Ilkhan Togha Temür Borjigid & Ilkhan Musa Borjigid

Country	Title (Ruler Title)	Type	Ruler	Dynasty	Culture	Religion
Qasarids	Ilkhanate (Ilkhan)	ABC	Togha Temür	Borjigid	Mongol	-
Hamadan​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Mahmud	Qutlugh	Persian	Sunni
Qom​	Emirate/Imamate?	Settled	Tal al-Din Ali	Asil	Persian	Sunni
Kashan​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Latif Allah	Kashi	Persian	Sunni
Astarabad​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Shaykh Ali	Hindu	Mazanderani	Shiite
Jauni Qurban​	Ulus (Ulus Beg)	ABC	Arghun Shah	Arghunid	Oirat	Sunni
Esfarayen​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Shaykh Ali	Qushji	Khorasani	Sunni
Sabzevar​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Ala al-Din Muhammad	Farayumadi	Khorasani	Sunni
Kuhistan​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Abd-Allah	Mulai	Persian	Sunni
Tabaristan​	Malikate (Malik)	Settled	Fakhr al-Dawla Hasan II	Bavandid	Mazanderani	Shiite
Herat​	Malikate (Malik)	Settled	Mu'izz-uddin Husayn	Kartid	Persian	Sunni
Merv​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	-	Sanjari	Turkmen	Sunni
Khaf​	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	-	Khwafi	Persian	Sunni
Rostamdar	Ostan (Ostandar)	Settled	Jalal al-Dawla Iskandar II	Baduspanid	Mazanderani	Shiite
Hüleguids	Ilkhanate (Ilkhan)	ABC	Musa	Borjigid	Mongol	Sunni
Hillah​	Sharifate (Sharif)	Settled	Ahmad Rumaytha	Qatadid	Hijazi	Zaydi

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Chobanid Faction
Puppet Claimant(s): Ilkhatun Sati Beg Borjigid & Ilkhan Suleiman Borjigid

Country	Title (Ruler Title)	Type	Ruler	Dynasty	Culture	Religion
Chobanids	Ulus (Ulus Beg)	ABC	Hasan Kuchak	Chobanid	Mongol	Tengri

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Unaligned Countries

Country	Title (Ruler Title)	Type	Ruler	Dynasty	Culture	Religion
Georgia	Kingdom (King)	Settled	Giorgi V	Bagrationi	Georgian	Orthodox
Alastani​	Saeristavo (Eristavi)	Settled	Andronicus	Bagrationi	Georgian	Orthodox
Samstkhe​	Saeristavo (Eristavi)	Settled	Qvarqvare	Jaqeli	Georgian	Orthodox
Tao​	Saeristavo (Eristavi)	Settled	T’aqa	Panaskerteli	Georgian	Orthodox
Ani​	Principality (Prince)	Settled	Shahanshah III	Zakarid	Armenian	Orthodox
Vayots Dzor​	Principality (Prince)	Settled	Hasan II	Proshyan	Armenian	Miaphysite
Amberd​	Principality (Prince)	Settled	Kurd II	Vachutian	Armenian	Miaphysite
Syunik​	Melikate (Melik)	Settled	Burtel	Orbelian	Armenian	Miaphysite
Lower Khachen​	Melikate (Melik)	Settled	Jalal II	Hasan-Jalalyan	Armenian	Miaphysite
Upper Khachen​	Melikate (Melik)	Settled	Grigor II	Dopyan	Armenian	Miaphysite
Shaki​	Ulus (Ulus Beg)	ABC	Sidi Ahmed	Arlat	Oirat	Sunni
Tsakhur​	-	-	-	-	Lezgin	Orthodox
Rutul​	-	-	-	-	Lezgin	Orthodox
Circassia	-	-	-	-	Circassian	-
Alania	-	-	-	-	Alan	Orthodox
Durdzuketia	-	-	-	-	Nakh	-
Avaria	-	-	-	-	Avar	-
Simsir	-	-	-	-	Nakh	-
Tarki	Shamkhalate (Shamkhal)	-	-	-	Kumyk	-
Kaitag Utsmiate	-	-	-	-	Dargin	-
Tabasara	-	-	-	-	Lezgin	-
Zirikhgeran	-	-	-	-	Lezgin	-
Kurakh	-	-	-	-	Lezgin	-
Lahijan	Hokema	Settled	-	Naservand	Gilak	Sunni
Ranekouh​	Hokema	Settled	-	Naservand	Gilak	Sunni
Fuman	Hokema	Settled	-	Eshaqvand	Gilak	Sunni
Rasht	Hokema	Settled	-	-	Gilak	Sunni
Tulam	Hokema	Settled	-	-	Gilak	Shiite
Hisn Kayfa	Emirate (Emir)	Settled	Ghazi Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr	Ayyubid	-	Sunni
Dilmacids???	-	-	-	-	-	-
Artuqids	Beylik (Bey)	Settled	As-Salih Shams al-Din Mahmūd	Artukogullari	Sunni	-
Little Lorestan (Khorsidids)	Atabegate (Atabeg)	Settled	Šoǰāʿ-al-dīn Moḥammad	Khorsidi	Lur	-
Great Lorestan (Hazaraspids)	Atabegate (Atabeg)	Settled	Rokn-al-dīn Yūsofšāh II	Hazaraspid	Lur	-
Sarbadars	-	Settled	Abd al-Razzaq ibn Fazlullah	-	Persian	Shiite
Fars	Malikate (Malik)	Settled	Jalāl-al-Din Masʿud Šāh	Injuid	Persian	Sunni
Khunj​	-	-	-	-	-	-
Shabankara	Tribe	ABC	Ardashir	Shabankarai	Persian	Sunni
Ughanids	Tribe	ABC	-	Ughanid	Mongol	Tengri
Jurmanids	Tribe	ABC	-	Jurmanid	Mongol	Tengri
Lar	Malikate (Malik)	Settled	-	Miladid	Achomi	Sunni
Yazd	Malikate (Malik)	Settled	Mobārez-al-Din	Muzaffarid	Persian	Sunni
Kerman	Malikate (Malik)	Settled	Qutb al-Din	Nikruzi	Persian	Sunni
White Horde (Batu Ulus)	Khanate (Khan)	ABC	Özbeg	Borjigid	Mongol	Sunni
Blue Horde (Orda Ulus)​	Ulus (Ulus Beg)	ABC	-	Borjigid	Mongol	Tengri
Grey Horde (Shiban Ulus)​	Ulus (Ulus Beg)	ABC	-	Borjigid	Mongol	Tengri
Khwarazm (Sufids)​	-	-	Qutluq Temür	Sufid	Mongol	Tengri
Sistan	Malikate (Malik)	Settled	Qutb al-Din Muhammad	Mihrabanid	Persian	Sunni
Kharan	Tribe	ABC	-	Nahrui	Baloch	Sunni
Makran	Malikate (Malik)	Settled	Ghiyāth al-Dīn Dīnār	Hot	Baloch	Sunni
Bampur​	Tribe	ABC	-	Rind-Lashari	Baloch	Sunni
Buleda​	Tribe	ABC	-	Buledai	Baloch	Sunni
Kolwa​	Tribe	ABC	-	Bizenjo	Baloch	Sunni
Khuzdar	Tribe	ABC	-	Jat	Sindhi	Sunni
Kalat	Tribe	ABC	-	Mirwari	Brahui	Sunni
Hormuz	Malikate (Malik)	Settled	Qutb al-Din Tahamtan	Deramku	Persian	Sunni
Fal​	-	-	-	Fali	Persian	-
Jask​	-	-	-	-	-	-

---

 

[SuperLexxe]

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Btw @Ispil, do you know if the Kurdish tribes had any significant military contributions to the Ilkhanate and specifically later successors, like the Jalayirids?

As they are now, it will be quite a vassal swarm, and to me it would seem quite odd, even though I don't have any info to point otherwise.

As we're getting close to finishing the map, I've started thinking about the diplomatic setup, and determining just how expansive the current succession war actually is, and if it would make sense to involve every subject, and what those subjects' status is.

---

 

[Ispil]

---

Btw @Ispil, do you know if the Kurdish tribes had any significant military contributions to the Ilkhanate and specifically later successors, like the Jalayirids?

As they are now, it will be quite a vassal swarm, and to me it would seem quite odd, even though I don't have any info to point otherwise.

As we're getting close to finishing the map, I've started thinking about the starting diplomatic setup, and determining just how expansive the current succession war actually is, and if it would make sense to involve every subject, and what those subjects' status is.

---

Keep in mind that subject relations need not require military obligation in PC.

But to my knowledge they were never involved in any military conflict. I mean hell it took the Qara Qoyunlu taking Mosul before the Jalayirids even reacted to their expansion in the region, and even then it was mostly just a shrug.

Now, the Qara Qoyunlu and Aq Qoyunlu and Safavids and Ottomans absolutely dragged the Kurdish tribes into things.

 

[Streamlet]

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Here are some of the compiled countries, with their titles, types, rulers, dynasties, their rulers' cultures and religions. Many of them are empty due to lack of information, and some I've filled with guesswork.

NOTE: Cultures & Religions are those of the RULER, not necessarily the population

NOTE: Vassal relations are represented by indentations.

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Maps for reference:
View attachment 1251214 View attachment 1251216

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Hormuz (and Fal) should be Persian, they were basically entirely reliant on a Persian court and Persian governors until ~1500 when the Arab element started to become more important. Kalat should be Brahui and Khuzdar should be Sindhi.

Hormuz is almost always referred to as a Kingdom, which suggest Malik, but maybe they could use the English title as an exception because it's way more recognisable than e.g "Malikate of Hormuz" which has 0 results on google.

 

[Ispil]

---

Btw @Ispil, do you know if the Kurdish tribes had any significant military contributions to the Ilkhanate and specifically later successors, like the Jalayirids?

As they are now, it will be quite a vassal swarm, and to me it would seem quite odd, even though I don't have any info to point otherwise.

As we're getting close to finishing the map, I've started thinking about the diplomatic setup, and determining just how expansive the current succession war actually is, and if it would make sense to involve every subject, and what those subjects' status is.

---

Dasni and Donboli-Bosht should be Yazidi.

 

[D.Knight]

---

Here are some of the compiled countries, with their titles, types, rulers, dynasties, their rulers' cultures and religions. Many of them are empty due to lack of information, and some I've filled with guesswork.

NOTE: Cultures & Religions are those of the RULER, not necessarily the population

NOTE: Vassal relations are represented by indentations.

---

Maps for reference:
View attachment 1251214 View attachment 1251216

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Shouldn't the Baduspanid of Rostamdar be just straight Persian?

 

[SuperLexxe]

Shouldn't the Baduspanid of Rostamdar be just straight Persian?

Why's that?

 

[SuperLexxe]

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Also, I don't remember if I mentioned it before, but for Rostamdar, the area circled in red is just recently occupied (less than a year ago), and should be at very low integration:

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[D.Knight]

Why's that?

Honestly mostly going off M&T and Wikipedia they're an exile family descended from the Dayubids who regularly used Persianate names is my reasoning. Though I guess by such reasoning it's been almost 800 years of living up north by this point.

 

[SuperLexxe]

Honestly mostly going off M&T and Wikipedia they're an exile family descended from the Dayubids who regularly used Persianate names is my reasoning. Though I guess by such reasoning it's been almost 800 years of living up north by this point.

Yes, I would think the Baduspanids would be more similiar to the Mazanderani by this point. If we went purely by Persianate name usage, then many of the Armenian families could be said to be Persian