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Pagan Geordie

northumberland.gif


flag_northumberland.gif


NORTHUMBRIA
Culture: anglian
Faith: Pagan (change by event)
Starts 476 with YORKSHIRE
Core: Yorkshire, Northumberland, Lancashire by event, Lothian by event, Strathclyde by event
Friendly to: none
Hostile to: Gododdin, Alba

start-01/03/547
*(Dere)
DIP 4
ADM 3
MIL 4

547-01/03/559
Ida
DIP 5
ADM 5
MIL 5
547-559 general 3/3/3+1

559-01/03/560
Glappa
DIP 2
ADM 2
MIL 2

560-01/03/568
Adda
DIP 4
ADM 3
MIL 3

568-01/03/572
Aethelric
DIP 3
ADM 3
MIL 3

572-01/03/579
Theodric
DIP 4
ADM 3
MIL 3

579-01/03/585
Frithuwald
DIP 3
ADM 3
MIL 3

585-01/03/592
Hussa
DIP 3
ADM 3
MIL 4
585-592 general 2/2/3

592-01/03/616
Aethelfrith
DIP 4
ADM 5
MIL 7
592-616 general 4/3/3+1

616-12/10/633
Eadwine
DIP 7
ADM 6
MIL 5
616-633 general 3/2/3+1

alt 626 - 12/10/633
*Eanfrith
DIP 3
ADM 2
MIL 3
(#Following successful assassination of Eadwine)

633-01/03/634
Eanfrith
DIP 3
ADM 2
MIL 3

634-05/08/642
Oswald
DIP 7
ADM 6
MIL 6
634-642 general 3/2/3

642-15/02/670
Oswiu
DIP 6
ADM 5
MIL 5
642-658 general 3/2/3

670-20/05/685
Ecgfrith
DIP 4
ADM 5
MIL 6
670-685 general 4/3/3

685-14/12/705
Ealdfrith
DIP 5
ADM 5
MIL 3

01/03/698-01/03/711 Beorhtfrith, general 3/2/2 rank 2

705-01/02/706
Eadwulf
DIP 2
ADM 2
MIL 2

706-01/03/716
Osred I
DIP 3
ADM 2
MIL 2

716-01/03/718
Cenred
DIP 3
ADM 2
MIL 2

718-09/05/729
Osric
DIP 3
ADM 2
MIL 3

729-01/03/737
Ceolwulf
DIP 4
ADM 4
MIL 3

737-01/03/758
Eadberht
DIP 4
ADM 3
MIL 4
737-758 general 3/2/2

758-24/07/759
Oswulf
DIP 3
ADM 2
MIL 2

759-01/03/765
Aethelwald Moll
DIP 3
ADM 2
MIL 3
759-765 general 2/3/2

765-01/04/774
Alhred
DIP 3
ADM 2
MIL 2

774-22/03/779
Aethelred I
DIP 2
ADM 2
MIL 3

779-23/09/788
Aelfwald I
DIP 3
ADM 3
MIL 3

788-01/03/790
Osred II
DIP 3
ADM 2
MIL 3

790-01/03/796
Aethelred I
DIP 2
ADM 2
MIL 3
(#Restored)

796-01/03/808
Eardwulf
DIP 4
ADM 3
MIL 4
796-01/03/803 general 2/3/2

808-01/03/809
Aelfwald II
DIP 2
ADM 2
MIL 2

809-01/03/810
Eardwulf
DIP 4
ADM 3
MIL 4
(#Restored)

810-(840)
Eanred
DIP 3
ADM 3
MIL 2
 
Last edited:
Rheged

Rheged looks great. I have little to add - here's my suggestions for some leaders and minor amendments. I put Metcaud around 590 and Catraeth around 596AD, and so do you by the looks of things - thus I make the Anglian enemy of Urien Hussa not Theodric.

---
name = "Gwrgi"
year = 1476
year = 1503
}
DIP = 4
ADM = 4
MIL = 5

name = "Merchiaun"
year = 1503
year = 1541
}
DIP = 4
ADM = 5
MIL = 4

name = "Elidyr"
year = 1541
year = 1560
}
DIP = 3
ADM = 3
MIL = 3

name = "Cynmarch"
year = 1560
year = 1570
}
DIP = 4
ADM = 3
MIL = 3

name = "Llywarch"
year = 1570
year = 1575
}
DIP = 4
ADM = 4
MIL = 3

name = "Urien"
year = 1575
year = 1590
}
DIP = 5
ADM = 5
MIL = 4
---

I make of Urien a 3/3/3 leader. There may be an event that gives Northumbria the opportunity to assassinate him... :) and perhaps another to represent Morcant Bulc's bid for power not long after Metcaud leading to Catraeth.

---
name = "Owen"
year = 1590
year = 1596
}
DIP = 3
ADM = 4
MIL = 3
---

And of Owen a 3/2/2.

---
name = "Rhoeth"
year = 1595
year = 1620
}
DIP = 5
ADM = 4
MIL = 4

name = "Riennelth"
year = 1620
year = 1643
}
DIP = 6
ADM = 4
MIL = 3

#To Bernicia
---

I'm not so sure about hypothetical rulers, the trend elsewhere is to have a uniform shit monarch for periods of obscurity or annexation.

How 'bout

*(Ardwy)
DIP 3
ADM 2
MIL 3
 
There are alot of spares.
Confucian, Hindu, reformed.
I would like to see Yazidi and Celtic Christianity personally
Also, I think the PTI should be expanded to beyond India, so we could have the Byzantine conquest of it.
Also, how about only having the Late Caliphs, Byzantium and Persia being Latin tech?
 
I'm all fired up about 'Celtic Christianity'. It's crowd-pleasing though inaccurate. A pleasant deep green on the religion map with all little Celtic cross symbols would be lovely. And it would add real bollocks to any Synod of Whitby event.

I wonder whether it should be an 'elite' religion like CRC or whether there should be actual 'Celtic Christian' provinces. Might foul things up a bit...

Were we to have it, scenario start would be altered thusways...

All three Irish kingdoms and all five provinces would begin 'Celtic Christian'. In 476, CC has not yet influenced the British mainland. However, events would convert Alba (if Alba so chose) and then move down into Northumberland and East Anglia, both of which would get to decide (Northumberland more than once) which way to bend. Finally, inevitably, the culture would go into retreat - although if Northumbria resists the forces of history perhaps not.

Celtic Christianity could dent tax income like Reformed. Stability should come dearer than's true for the Papists. Force-conversions should be possible both ways.
 
I may make them worse, however I prefer fantasy monarchs before a uniform monarch for periods where no historical ruler may be found whatever the reason for that is. It is more fun to play the specific country that way IMHO.

The plan is to have as much of the 'Old world' as possible, so the only religions that seems to be able to be discussed is the Christian ones. I think we need to decide with how to do it. For the moment Catholic represents what would later be Catholic and Orthodox. Orthodox represents Copts and other more or less similar, and finally Protestant representents Arianism. However since I don't want Visigoths to go Catholic almost imediately, but the only way to prevent this is making most of their provinces Arian, which I'm not sure would be good. Now what would be the best idea to order up the Christian religions. I'll let you come with suggestions first.
 
(Finally) the complete Byzantine list... please feel free to make changes you think are justified.

Code: 
[color=white]# (Eastern) Roman Empire #
#
# Ids used 15088-15116
#
# Information sourced primarily from [url]http://www.roman-emperors.org/[/url]
# Also useful were [url]http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Emperors[/url]
# and [url]http://www.wegm.com/coins/byzantine/[/url]
#
# I have tended to give those involved in religious turmoil poor ADM
# ratings, to reflect unrest.

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15088 }
    name = "Zeno"
    startdate = {
        day = 17
        month = november
        year = 1474
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 9
        month = april
        year = 1491
    }
    DIP = 6
    MIL = 6
    ADM = 4
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15089 }
    name = "Anastasius"
    startdate = {
        day = 11
        month = april
        year = 1491
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 8
        month = july
        year = 1518
    }
    DIP = 6
    MIL = 5
    ADM = 8
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15090 }
    name = "Justin"
    startdate = {
        day = 9
        month = july
        year = 1518
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 1
        month = august
        year = 1527
    }
    DIP = 4
    MIL = 4
    ADM = 4
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15091 }
    name = "Justinian I"
    startdate = {
        day = 1
        month = august
        year = 1527
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 15
        month = november
        year = 1565
    }
    DIP = 5
    MIL = 5
    ADM = 7
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15092 }
    name = "Justin II"
    startdate = {
        day = 15
        month = november
        year = 1565
    }
    deathdate = { # 'late in the year'?
        month = september
        year = 1578
    }
    DIP = 3
    MIL = 4
    ADM = 5 # madness should be done via event
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15093 }
    name = "Tiberius II (I) Constantine"
    startdate = { # 'late in the year'?
        month = september
        year = 1578
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 14
        month = august
        year = 1582
    }
    DIP = 5
    MIL = 5
    ADM = 3
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15094 }
    name = "Maurice"
    startdate = {
        day = 14
        month = august
        year = 1582
    }
    deathdate = {
        month = february # killed during famine... winter?
        year = 1602
    }
    DIP = 5
    MIL = 5
    ADM = 6
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15095 }
    name = "Phocas"
    startdate = {
        month = february
        year = 1602
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 5
        month = october
        year = 1610
    }
    DIP = 3
    MIL = 4
    ADM = 3
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15096 }
    name = "Heraclius"
    startdate = {
        day = 5
        month = october
        year = 1610
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 11
        month = february
        year = 1641
    }
    DIP = 4
    MIL = 8
    ADM = 6
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15097 }
    name = "Heraclonas and Constantine III"
    startdate = {
        day = 11
        month = february
        year = 1641
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 24
        month = april
        year = 1641
    }
    DIP = 3
    MIL = 3
    ADM = 3
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15098 }
    name = "Heraclonas"
    startdate = {
        day = 24
        month = april
        year = 1641
    }
    deathdate = {
        month = september
        year = 1641
    }
    DIP = 2
    MIL = 2
    ADM = 2
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15099 }
    name = "Constans II"
    startdate = {
        month = september
        year = 1641
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 15
        month = september
        year = 1668
    }
    DIP = 5
    MIL = 4
    ADM = 3
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15100 }
    name = "Constantine IV"
    startdate = {
        month = october
        year = 1668
    }
    deathdate = {
        month = september
        year = 1685
    }
    DIP = 4
    MIL = 4
    ADM = 5
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15101 }
    name = "Justinian II"
    startdate = {
        month = september
        year = 1685
    }
    deathdate = {
        year = 1795
    }
    DIP = 4
    MIL = 6
    ADM = 4
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15102 }
    name = "Leontius"
    startdate = {
        year = 1695
    }
    deathdate = {
        year = 1698
    }
    DIP = 3
    MIL = 5
    ADM = 4
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15103 }
    name = "Tiberius III (II)"
    startdate = {
        year = 1698
    }
    deathdate = {
        month = august
        year = 1705
    }
    DIP = 3
    MIL = 4
    ADM = 6
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15104 }
    name = "Justinian II" # restored
    startdate = {
        month = august
        year = 1705
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 4 # or 24?
        month = november
        year = 1711
    }
    DIP = 4
    MIL = 4
    ADM = 5
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15105 }
    name = "Philippicus Bardanes"
    startdate = {
        month = august # 'some months' before Just. II's death
        year = 1711
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 3
        month = june
        year = 1713
    }
    DIP = 4
    MIL = 6
    ADM = 3
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15106 }
    name = "Anastasius II"
    startdate = {
        day = 4
        month = june
        year = 1713
    }
    deathdate = {
        month = may
        year = 1715
    }
    DIP = 5
    MIL = 4
    ADM = 6
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15107 }
    name = "Theodosius III"
    startdate = {
        month = may
        year = 1715
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 25
        month = march
        year = 1717
    }
    DIP = 6
    MIL = 4
    ADM = 6
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15108 }
    name = "Leo III"
    startdate = {
        day = 25
        month = march
        year = 1717
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 18
        month = june
        year = 1741
    }
    DIP = 7
    MIL = 7
    ADM = 8
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15109 }
    name = "Constantine V Copronymus"
    startdate = {
        day = 18
        month = june
        year = 1741
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 14
        month = september
        year = 1775
    }
    DIP = 4
    MIL = 7
    ADM = 3
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15110 }
    name = "Leo IV"
    startdate = {
        day = 14
        month = september
        year = 1775
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 8
        month = september
        year = 1780
    }
    DIP = 4
    MIL = 6
    ADM = 4
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15111 }
    name = "Constantine VI"
    startdate = {
        day = 8
        month = september
        year = 1780
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 19
        month = august
        year = 1797
    }
    DIP = 3
    MIL = 3
    ADM = 3
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15112 }
    name = "Irene"
    startdate = {
        day = 19
        month = august
        year = 1797
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 31
        month = october
        year = 1802
    }
    DIP = 3
    MIL = 3
    ADM = 2
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15113 }
    name = "Nicephorus I"
    startdate = {
        day = 31
        month = october
        year = 1802
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 26
        month = july
        year = 1811
    }
    DIP = 4
    MIL = 3
    ADM = 7
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15114 }
    name = "Michael I"
    startdate = {
        day = 26
        month = july
        year = 1811
    }
    deathdate = {
        month = september
        year = 1811
    }
    DIP = 4
    MIL = 4
    ADM = 4
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15115 }
    name = "Michael I"
    startdate = {
        month = september
        year = 1811
    }
    deathdate = {
        month = july
        year = 1813
    }
    DIP = 3
    MIL = 2
    ADM = 3
}

historicalmonarch = {
    id = { type = 6 id = 15116 }
    name = "Leo V"
    startdate = {
        month = july # summer
        year = 1813
    }
    deathdate = {
        day = 24
        month = december
        year = 1820
    }
    DIP = 5
    MIL = 6
    ADM = 5
}

# Free ids to ?
[/color]
 
Last edited:
Heraclius was a magnificent emporer. What are you getting that from?
 
Well, if you read the post, you can see I got what I got from http://www.roman-emperors.org/heraclis.htm

I really know nothing about it though (I gave him mediocre stats because he managed to lose much of the Empire to the Arabs, presided over failed religious reform and seemed unable to ensure a clean succession).
 
But he created an Empire that lasted a thousand years, and saved Byzantium from being a Sassanian vassal!
 
Originally posted by CCR_of_the_Code
But he created an Empire that lasted a thousand years, and saved Byzantium from being a Sassanian vassal!
Click to expand...

Created? Ok, he left an Empire that looked more like the later version than the earlier one (as did almost every emperor, to some extent...), but I think most people of the time would have been astonished if he claimed to have 'created' an Empire :)
 
He certainly hauled its arse out of the Persian/Avar clusterfuck though, and his reign is now seen as a watershed for the way he reestablished the Empire on an avowedly 'Greek' footing.
 
Why will the scenario be set in 1476? There was precious little technological advance during the entire Principate and Dominate. Glassware, civil engineering and superior torsion weapons almost sums up the technological advances of that era. After 476 there are improvements to metalworking whereby swords were now made by sandwiching strips of metal to make stronger weapons while ploughs capable of working deep soils were now found beyond the Po valley. There are also stirrups, Greek fire and one or two other things. Set against that was the extraordinary poverty that enveloped Europe post 476 as international trade essentially halted in the west save for a few bulk goods.

Now setting the scenario in 1476 seems really strange. This was a time when European technology and wealth advance at breakneck speed in comparison with the late and post Roman era. After a century a player will have cannons and be capable of assaulting fortresses. Some time later he will be able to explore the entire world. A player will really need a very powerful imagination to regard this as Roman no matter how good the events, flags and the like are - I am sure they will be excellent. Setting in 476 essentially prevents any improvements in land technology (provided a player does not switch and even then it seems slower). Only infrastructure and trade to a limited extent advances. Limiting the explored area and reducing population to the small levels of the time ensures that there would be little advancement in a game set around 476. The unlimited patch does not affect stability. It is the beta itself that is horrifically unstable. Please set it in the correct year.
 
As far as tech advancement goes, AFAIK it's a primarily cosmetic issue whether it's set in 476 or 1476. You can set the tech advancement penalties in the trade.csv/infra.csv/land.csv/naval.csv files for whatever tech speed you want.

There are also problems (as was mentioned at the start of this thread) with rebel morale and badboy limits, and I believe there are other issues caused by the programmers using 1419 as the start date to calculate things. For instance, the IFU has to invert the tech years in its tech tree. Finally, Lofman's main point when he explained the 1476 date was that it's easier for people to get into: no messy patching which makes EU2 MP a problem.

The cannons/assaulting fortresses is a non-issue: cannons can be replaced by different graphics/names, and 'assaults' should be allowed to happen. Any way, as I said, you can always restrict tech advancement, and there is also the possibility of editing the tech tree with Moctezuma's editor. And "Limiting the explored area and reducing population to the small levels of the time ensures that there would be little advancement in a game set around 476" is something that can be done in 476 or 1476.

Having said all that... I would still like the scenario to use the unlimited time patch, just so I could see the correct date. But it's Lofman's scenario, and since he's the one who's done most of the work so far, he gets to decide :D
 
Originally posted by wryun
Having said all that... I would still like the scenario to use the unlimited time patch, just so I could see the correct date. But it's Lofman's scenario, and since he's the one who's done most of the work so far, he gets to decide :D
Click to expand...
I tried to start a game 0 AD, everything seemed to work fine, EXCEPT that the badboy limit was negative... :(
I would really appreciate if Johan put a cap on the limit, like 30 or something (which means that any value below 30 will be 30)...
Start a petitition(sp?)?
 
Originally posted by Kaigon
I tried to start a game 0 AD, everything seemed to work fine, EXCEPT that the badboy limit was negative... :(
I would really appreciate if Johan put a cap on the limit, like 30 or something (which means that any value below 30 will be 30)...
Start a petitition(sp?)?
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt he'd do it, since its purpose is to allow pre-1419 play, which he is explicitly againt - after all, it would be much easier for him to edit out the 1419 minimum year than Moctezuma (and the 1820 end for that matter, as well as allowing negative dates).
 
May I suggest a possible ahistorical event? I would like to explain the reason for it.

The ending of the Empire in 476 was completely not inevitable. Although the last emperor to legislate with any effect was Majorian (Julius Valerius Majorianus 457-61) not all of those emperors who followed were simple ciphers of a German Magister Militium. Julius Nepos, Magister Militium under Avitus (455-6) was before and after his year and two months of rule from 475-476 the commander of Dalmatia as a sort of near-independent warlord. He had inherited this command from uncle Marcellinus. Dalmatia now became a part of the Empire for a time. Despite some genuine independent authority his rule saw a further weakening of the empire with complete loss of Septemia to the Goths. He sent his predecessor Glycerius to the bishopric of Salonae - a decision that was later to prove lethal. His Magister Militium Orestes repaid elevation by Julius Nepos by overthrowing his master and substituting his frail Romulus Augustulus for him. Flavius Odoacer who instituted a German state in Italy deposed this last emperor. Julius Nepos returned to Dalmatia. However the Emperor Zeno managed to have Odoacer have the face of Julius Nepos placed back on coins in the west (solidii with the face of the Roman emperor were for a long time after 476 the sole type of gold coin in the west).

Glycerius who had first gained wealth through the murder of his brothers was not brought closer to godliness by his sacerdotal office. Glycerius, by now bishop of Dalmatia, had Julius Nepos murdered. Odoacer invaded Dalmatia ostensibly to avenge this murder annexing one of the few remaining Roman holdouts in the west (another survived in northern France until Clovis annexed it while some areas like Batavia retained some Roman garrisons for some years after 476).

My suggestion is that there could be an event giving whoever plays the role of Odoacer to properly reinstate Julius Nepos and somehow restoring the empire in the west ending the game for the ruler of Italy (therefore an event that the ai might chose) or giving him bonuses and a new ruler. The alternative to this would be to follow history and annex it in 480. Sorry if this is done already or is unworkable but while ahistorical it could have happened if the Magister Militium in the east Aspar had not been assassinated (making Odoacer hostile to the eastern Emperor).

The scenario looks excellent so far. My concern re a 1476 is that given time a player can become wealthy enough to bypass a much of the penalties a scenario might have by going fully innovative and though establishing contact with unplayable states outside the play area. For instance while playing as Rome in the IFU scenario I was able to discover much of Indonesia though the trade of maps and was able to max out my infrastructure tech. This could happen in 476 but an earlier date means it can be overlooked. But the scenario is looking well and it is simplicity itself (only lopping the one off the years of all the monarchs is a slight bother) to move it to 476.
 
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