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476 Scenario

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I just remembered one thing about a pre-476 setting. Rebels are extraordinarily feeble. They seem to remain at land 0 or the approximate for rebels for nearly the whole of the pre-1419 period. So the 1476-1820 setting does make a great deal of sense considered that way.
 
Originally posted by Patricius
I just remembered one thing about a pre-476 setting. Rebels are extraordinarily feeble. They seem to remain at land 0 or the approximate for rebels for nearly the whole of the pre-1419 period. So the 1476-1820 setting does make a great deal of sense considered that way.
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I don't think this is a problem anymore, as rebels has the same tech as you do...
 
I notice that all techs are disabled. This allows a player to max out stability investment - very useful for players with gold provinces and ambition. Causus belli can now be ignored.

What does anyone think of my event idea on the end of the previous page?
 
Originally posted by Kaigon
I don't think this is a problem anymore, as rebels has the same tech as you do...
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Everyone keeps saying that - I'm almost certain, however, that it's only morale. I'm sure I've fought rebels say, around 1600, and they don't have a fire phase.

(but as you say, it's not a problem; though the AI inflation scaling with the year could cause problems)
 
I notice that Vandal occupied Roman Africa has Arian provinces. They should all the Catholic. Only the state religion was Arian. It was also far wealthier than depicted in the scenario. Its provinces provided the greater part Roman revenues in the west by the time of Valentinian III (425-55). After 429 when the Vandals of Gaiseric crossed from Spain and occupied Roman Africa the Roman state was severely short of funds and grain for the annona that fed Rome. While Justinian was a megalomaniac he would not have invaded an Africa as poor as it was to become later. The Vandals insisted on the demolition of city walls - defortification event might be in order if they acquire additional provinces with fortifications - such an event may not be possible though. Compensation in terms of leaders or an even higher naval level (there is not too much difference between naval one and two) might be an idea. Italy should be poorer and should have plentiful plague and depopulation events. Milan should have a much higher population. It served as a capital in the late forth and early fifth century. This and its location astride the roads and route ways north enabled it to have a population that was likely higher than that of Rome - then having between 250,000 and 400,000.

I hope my suggestions are of some use.
 
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Patricius, an event that may restore Julius Nepos sounds nice. Do you know in which month (and day if possible) he was murdered? The reason while the Vandals provinces are the Arian and not Catholic is simply to prevent them from switching to Catholic (such as Visigoths do all the time). I'm considering changing which religion represents Arianism to Orhtodox, but for the moment I'm wondering what Ideas you all have about the how we should have the religions.

For the moment tax values are unchanged, but they will generally be lowered once beginning to change them. I will see whether making the Vandals fully offensive (unless they already are that) and see whether that will slow them down from re-fortifying their provinces.

What I'm going to do know is to create some sort of revolt.txt. I've made some sort of setup for India, but I think that most south of Gupta is inaccurate in one way or another, but for the moment it will do. And how should we have the religions in your opinions.
 
Julius Nepos was murdered on 9 May 480 by his retainers Viator and Ovida.

I would not make them fully offensive for it was noted how their military ability decayed in the luxuriant atmosphere of Roman Africa. But if it prevents them fortifying their provinces that would be good.

Having the Visigoths convert is obviously not ahistorical since Reccared did as much through the influence of Pope Gregory the Great. Otherwise the Germanic tribes were quite attached to Arianism. The Vandal engaged in some persecution of Catholics in their territory. Using Orthodox or something that precludes conversion is therefore a good idea with a conversion event for the Visigoths and perhaps an ahistorical one for the Vandals if they survive.

One thing I would do is to simulate Syriac/Assyrian and Coptic Christianity. When the Arabs invaded Damascus was taken peacefully and Egypt surrendered by the Patriarch Cyprus on account of massive hostility of local Christians to the Byzantines. Given that these form of Christianity survives yet in the Middle East and were a major factor in the success of the Arab invasion and reduction of Byzantine lands they could be worthwhile. If Orthodox is used for Arianism Coptic and Assyrian Christianity could be given the places for Protestantism and Reformed Christianity. If that is not possible some scripted rebellion in that region might suffice.
 
One Christian sect should be reserved for the Irish, I believe the Copts are in.

Orthodoxy to Arianism sounds cool.

Sorry for long inactivity, my power supply was struck by lightning :) I have not forgotten. I've got an (unpaid) job cataloguing 35,000 finds from Bede's monastery. Rockin' or what?
 
The Irish were different to what prevailed in Francia and England but there were considerable ritual differences in Spain that remained after King Reccared of Visigothic Spain converted to Catholicism from Arianism. Religious localism was usual then. Those Irish monks who travelled Europe were nominally on pilgrimages to Rome that the Irish frequently undertook. Part of Greece and Calabria followed the Orthodox rite yet were under the authority of Rome until the Pontificate of St Gregory II (731-41). Since the Irish were aligned to Rome despite some divergences of ritual - not really in doctrinal terms - a separate Irish Christianity would not make sense. This 'Celtic Church' is a myth promoted by the Church of Ireland, for example, to disguise the fact that the Tudors founded them. Linking them to Irish particularism in Christian terms is a nonsense. New Agers and assorted cranks also cling to this false notion. A history professor I had found the term 'Celtic Church' particularly annoying on account of its essential falsity.

Orthodox as Arian seems good. Consider my suggestion of an event to temporarily restore Julius Nepos since I was also able to find the precise date (9 May 480 in Salonae) when he was murdered on the orders of a serial killing (his old brothers allegedly on account of an inheritance) Archbishop Glycerius of Milan.
 
I do appreciate the idea of a 'Celtic church' is Fenian bollocks, that there was no doctrinal and little procedural divergence from Rome. However, the Irish church was long physically separated from the developing Roman tradition - there being no recorded papal contact with Ireland between Palladius' mission and the twelfth century. That's over 700 years more or less of sequestration. I know that by itself doesn't make a distinct religion, Ethiopia remained Coptic under far worse circumstances, but there were strong cultural overtones to the struggle between 'Irish' and Roman Easter long beyond the hippy vision of the Celtic church that make a separate sect desirable for gameplay at least through the earlier part of the scenario. I reckon it would be cool, say, as Northumbria to have to face Oswiu's dilemma. Perhaps stronger ties with Iona and the Picts, but I don't see Benedict Biscop coming to Tyneside had Northumbria adopted the throwback, thus no Bede, for example.

Ideally changes to/from CC would be solely by event, it would be crap if Spoleto or Vandalia could go 'Celtic'. Since CC would be broadly worse than RC too something needs be done to stop the Irish switching over prematurely as a matter of course.

But like Arthur, Mynyddog etc it's mainly crowd-pleasing.
 
Originally posted by wryun
Well, if you read the post, you can see I got what I got from http://www.roman-emperors.org/heraclis.htm

I really know nothing about it though (I gave him mediocre stats because he managed to lose much of the Empire to the Arabs, presided over failed religious reform and seemed unable to ensure a clean succession).
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Yes, I see that too...but if he died before the Arab (Islamic Explosion) he would have been remembered as a HERO and a Giant in the annals of the Eastern Roman Emperors, By the time the Arabs exploded unto the scene it was during his last years as Emperor and he was already mentally declining and his health was bad. So...its a judgement call as to his stats...but during the Persian Wars he totally rocked!

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla
www.novaroma.org
 
Originally posted by wryun
Everyone keeps saying that - I'm almost certain, however, that it's only morale. I'm sure I've fought rebels say, around 1600, and they don't have a fire phase.

(but as you say, it's not a problem; though the AI inflation scaling with the year could cause problems)
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I've tested this now, and the rebels are severly affected by game year, at least when it's about morale...
 
Sounds interesting. Does one get to play such states as Funan, Chenla, and Champa?
 
Snuggs,

It was a divergence of usage and custom not so much a lack of contact with Rome. Aside from pilgrimage the position of the Universal Church was sought by sending a delegation to Rome after a decision was reached. This is one example. A letter of St Cummian to Abbot Ségéne of Iona of 633 AD concerning the Easter question cited a canon of Innocent I (401-407) verbatim. It outlined the procedure whereby the Irish church convened a synod; a delegation went to Rome to ascertain the custom of the Universal Church in that regard and finally a circular announced the decision to the Irish clergy. However simply consulting with Rome did begin to look very anomalous by the eleventh and twelfth century.

There is just enough to justify a separate faith though but the Syriac and Coptic Churches (perhaps rendered as one for game purposes) are more significant in that it fatally undermined resistance in the Roman East. Damascus fell without a fight (by negotiation) while the Egyptian governor, Cyrus, the Patriarch of Alexandria, was uncertain about the loyalty of a Monophysite Coptic populace whose Church he had been trying to destroy that he retreated behind the stout walls of a mainly Greek Alexandria and essentially abandoned the rest of Egypt to the Arabs. (This could make for a good event) He hoped for Byzantine aid which he got but it was not enough and even when the Byzantines retook the city, the Arab forces were too well entrenched in Egypt. This all happened because Orthodox persecution of the Coptic and Syriac/Jacobite churches. Non-Christian religions could suffice like the way Shia Islam is modified to Zoroastrianism in the scenario but something where a state could convert to accommodate these provinces or the religious disputes of the time might be better. Perhaps something with Counter-Reformation Catholicism could provide a solution. Whatever happens the either the synod of Whitby and the Coptic and Jacobite hostility to Byzantium should get extensive events to compensate for the lack of a separate faith.

I notice an entry for rebels in scenario files with nearly all the attributes of the entries for normal states. Could increasing the rebel land technology be the solution to their weakness?
 
I'm still trying to get going to start on the revolt.txt:eek:
When it is done I will update the download.

As for Phillip V's question. Yes. But I'm sure help would be good to have there. For the moment the easternmost country is Assam, but those beyond will be added, sooner or later. If you wish you can do for that area what snuggs does for the British isles.
 
I've updated the download even though I have yet to start on the revolt.txt, but if I would wait for that who knows when it would be finished?

And I know that Pallava might be a little over-sized, but that just temporary. One state I've added that I'm little unsure about is Vijayan, as it, if I'm not mistaken, should be in the PTI to the west, and maybe Kunlun would be a better province (but that would weaken a Tibet that is meant to become strong enough later in the scenario to fight China and conquer some territory).
 
Lowered tax values in Europe, and the province.csv is now available to download. I felt that you should be able to test it, but it wasn't enough to update the download.

And I've finally begun working on the revolt.txt :cool:
 
Thanks for the update. Given that it is possible nearly every time on every difficulty but very hard to conquer the Eastern Roman Empire thanks to some very rich Italian provinces this is needed. Please consider some plague events for Rome and other provinces to really give the player a sense of what weighed downed the Western Roman Empire in its final years. Please also consider a Julius Nepos restoration event and one where the persecuting Patriarch Cyrus abandons all Egypt except Alexandria to the Moslem invaders as I suggested in earlier posts. I should learn how to write events - it does appear to be vastly difficult - so that I can make a proper suggestion to the scenario. Just making suggestions can slow things down.
 
Patricius, I've been thinking that Julius Nepos should be restored only if Romulus Augustus wasn't deposed in the first event and the Empire still is divided in a western and an eastern part. How do think about that? Glad you like the lowered tax values. :)

And snuggs, are the monarchs for Gododdin, Strathclyde, Gwynedd, Alba and the Irish coming soon? If you don't mind I will make monarchs for Gododdin and Strathclyde and possibly Gwynedd. For Alba, are you going to have the Pictish High Kings or the Kings of Dalriada?

Furthermore, may anyone help me with southeast-asia? I can place Champa, but I don't really know what to do about Fu-nan and Chenla more then somewhere in Cambodia. Chenla's monarchs start 487 in the list I have so should I have them a) part of Fu-nan or b) independent? And what provinces should Fu-nan and Chenla have? And what should be between them and India?

And for a different area, should Ethiopia have more neighbours and or provinces (or less provinces)?

And does anyone want to help with China?

And has anyone spotted anything incorrect that needs to be corrected? If so what and why?
 
Here's what I can find/improvise for now:

Funan (culture: khmer, religion: hinduism) :
Mekong Delta (capital of Oc Eo)
Khmer
Cambodia
Bangkok
Phuket
Perak

Chenla (culture: khmer, religion: hinduism) :
Laos

Mon (culture: mon, religion: hinduism) :
Kwai
Irrawady (capital?)
Lampang

Nan Chao (culture: tai, religion: ???) :
Yunnan (capital)
Bago
 
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