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I edited the models.csv a bit for the germans:

MODEL_GER_18_0;Deutschland-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_1;Konig-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_2;Derflinger-class BC;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_3;Bayern-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_4;Scharnhorst-class BC;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_5;Treaty Battleship;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_6;Bismark-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_7;H-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_8;O-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_9;Nuclear Guided Missile Battleship;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_1;Gazelle-class CL;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_2;Roon-class ACR;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_3;Emden-class CL;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_4;Königsberg-class CL;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_5;Admiral Hipper-class CA;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_6;Lützow-class CA;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_7;AA Light cruiser CA;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_8;M-class CA;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_9;P-class CA;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_10;Super Cruiser;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_11;Nuclear Light Cruiser;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_12;Nuclear Heavy Cruiser;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_13;Nuclear Super Cruiser;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_14;Guided Missile Cruiser;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_15;Nuclear Guided Missile Cruiser;;;;;;;;;;x
 
Ok for the destroyers there existed a few prototype ship classes:

1. Typ 43/Typ 42 (Z51): Displacement 2330 ts
2. Typ 44 (Z52-Z56): Displacement 3700 ts
3. Typ 45: Displacement 3700 ts

Maybe even the so called "Spähkreuzer" = Reconnaissance Cruiser could be added. These ships were basically large destroyers.
3 classes:
- Spähkreuzer 38 - Displacement: 5713 ts
- Spähkreuzer 39 - Displacement: 6300 ts
- Spähkreuzer 40 - Displacement: 7500 ts
 
Originally posted by aeternum
MODEL_GER_18_6;Bismark-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
Click to expand...

You mean:
MODEL_GER_18_6;Bismarck-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x ? ;)

Just kidding, great work!

About destroyers - rather then tonnage try to recreate early war and late war designs. So maybe those Type 44 can be used anyway? Remember, it's HoI, alternative tmeline - you can actually finish Z-plan there! :D
 
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Originally posted by Copper Nicus
You mean:
MODEL_GER_18_6;Bismarck-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x ? ;)

Just kidding, great work!

About destroyers - rather then tonnage try to recreate early war and late war designs. So maybe those Type 44 can be used anyway? Remember, it's HoI, alternative tmeline - you can actually finish Z-plan there! :D
Click to expand...

It´s not that easy to create early and late war design if you want to consider different ship typs (coastal boats, destroyers). But maybe this isnt even necessary.
Ok i will stick with destroyer class ships for the HoI destroyer models, maybe it does work.

aet
 
here we go:


MODEL_20_0;Coastal Gunboat;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_20_0;Raubvogel-class;;;;;;;;;;x

MODEL_20_1;1000 Ton Destroyer;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_20_1;T 1937-class;;;;;;;;;;x

MODEL_20_2;Corvette;;;;;;;;;;x
??
MODEL_20_3;Frigate;;;;;;;;;;x
??

MODEL_20_4;1500 Ton Destroyer;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_20_4;Typ 34/A;;;;;;;;;;x

MODEL_20_5;2000 Ton Destroyer;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_20_5;Typ 36/A;;;;;;;;;;x

MODEL_20_6;2500 Ton Destroyer;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_20_6;Narvik-class;;;;;;;;;;x

MODEL_20_7;3000 Ton Destroyer;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_20_7;Typ 44;;;;;;;;;;x

MODEL_20_8;Guided Missile Destroyer;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_20_8;SP 40-class;;;;;;;;;;x

-------------------------------------------------------------
model.csv:
MODEL_GER_20_0;Raubvogel-class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_20_1;T 1937-class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_20_2;Corvette;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_20_3;Frigate;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_20_4;Typ 34/A;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_20_5;Typ 36/A;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_20_6;Narvik-class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_20_7;Typ 44;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_20_8;SP 40-class;;;;;;;;;;x

Frigatte and Corvette are still ships i dont know how to fill them with german WWII ships.. any idea?
 
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Originally posted by aeternum
here we go:
MODEL_20_2;Corvette;;;;;;;;;;x
??
MODEL_20_3;Frigate;;;;;;;;;;x
??
Click to expand...

Since they never used those classes, we should stay with default model names.

Ok, I'll copy those names - they will make into the next relase. Thanks!
 
Re: Re: German Naval classifications

Originally posted by aeternum
There never existed a 1944-class for destroyers. The 1936B was the last developed destroyer class during WWII. All others where just plans/prototypes



According to various german WWII books and the official federal archive (Bundesarchiv) of Germany, belonged the Nürnberg and the Leipzig to the "same" ship class.
Named: "Leipzig class" light cruisers The Leipzig class was the successor class of the K-class (Köln, Karlsruhe, Königsberg)
Click to expand...

Sure enough about the DD's. I was only looking at the classes, and not the complements in the classes. Though 1 1942 type was launched (Z51).

Looking at the specs for both the Leipzig and Nurnberg, I can't agree that they are the same clas of ship. The Nurnberg is larger, with more armor, and more armaments, and a larger crew. The Leipzig is a light cruiser, while the Nurnberg is more of a traditional cruiser, with significantly better AA capacity.
 
Originally posted by aeternum

Frigatte and Corvette are still ships i dont know how to fill them with german WWII ships.. any idea? [/B]
Click to expand...

What about teh F-Class escorts? I think these fall into the general category of corvettes. Opinions?
 
Already addressed?

Hey gang! LOVE the naval aspects of CORE. GREAT work!

One issue, one question.

Issue: Started the CORE 1936 scenario and the German cruisers were all screwed up. The PBs were listed as AA cruisers, the historical K class (and other CLs) were Hippers, etc.
I made the changes in the OOB and easy enough. Just wanted to inform you in case others had not noticed.

Question: As the naval mod provides ships back to the turn of the century, is there a CORE 20th century in the works....or something that covers 1900-1945? Will ask this question on the big board too. Evolving the navies from WWI to WWII would be fun.....and you've already done most of the work!

THANKS!
 
Re: Re: Re: German Naval classifications

Originally posted by JRaup
Looking at the specs for both the Leipzig and Nurnberg, I can't agree that they are the same clas of ship. The Nurnberg is larger, with more armor, and more armaments, and a larger crew. The Leipzig is a light cruiser, while the Nurnberg is more of a traditional cruiser, with significantly better AA capacity.
Click to expand...

But both had the same standard/official displacement: 6750 ts. But nontheless, germany classified both ships as "Leipzig-class" ships.

aet
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: German Naval classifications

Originally posted by aeternum
But both had the same standard/official displacement: 6750 ts. But nontheless, germany classified both ships as "Leipzig-class" ships.

aet
Click to expand...

As I'm going by Jane's and Conway's, they list both as aseparate classes, and I agree with them. Standard displacement for the Leipzig: 6515t, deep load 8200t; for the Nurnberg: 6520t standard, 8400t deep load. The Nurnberg as significantly better armor on its belt and on the turrets. In addition, the Nurnberg had 8x20mm AA guns, and carried 2 seaplanes, neither of which are on the Leipzig, nor is it capable of having.
 
Re: Already addressed?

Originally posted by Adam the VIth
Question: As the naval mod provides ships back to the turn of the century, is there a CORE 20th century in the works....or something that covers 1900-1945? Will ask this question on the big board too. Evolving the navies from WWI to WWII would be fun.....and you've already done most of the work!

THANKS!
Click to expand...

None that I know of at this time. The earlier designs are in there to take into account the older ships that were in service with minor nations and give a human player more 'toys' to play with. Many of the designs are in there to force small countries to properly evolve a navy. I was getting tired of watching Hatian battleships wandering around the Gulf of Mexico. The other issue was; What is a 150mm battleship? Thank you for the feedback. MDow
 
Treaty Battleship Question

Can I make a case for retaining the Scharnhorst as the treaty battleship, and you can let me know what you all think.

The Scharnhosrt class had much in common in terms of capability as many of the treaty battleships that were her contemporaries. Yes, she had a lighter main battery than all of the others, but that was for political and design reasons.

There is no treaty battleship class other wise. That is one of the classes that is going to be heavily built and it would be nice to have it known as something other than 'treaty battleship.'

The large battlecruiser class is meant to represent the fast battleships/battlecruisers that were designed and built at the end of the first world war. The Germans had both the Mackensen and Hindenburg classes that fit this discription and would have been contemporaries of the Hood had the war continued. I went with Hindenburg because it was the last class actually completed.

I do want to complement aeternum for his work that he has done in correcting my mistakes (I especially like those u's with the dots over them :D, I haven't trained my keyboard to do those yet) with the class names. MDow
 
Re: Treaty Battleship Question

Originally posted by MateDow
Can I make a case for retaining the Scharnhorst as the treaty battleship, and you can let me know what you all think.

The Scharnhosrt class had much in common in terms of capability as many of the treaty battleships that were her contemporaries. Yes, she had a lighter main battery than all of the others, but that was for political and design reasons.

There is no treaty battleship class other wise. That is one of the classes that is going to be heavily built and it would be nice to have it known as something other than 'treaty battleship.'

The large battlecruiser class is meant to represent the fast battleships/battlecruisers that were designed and built at the end of the first world war. The Germans had both the Mackensen and Hindenburg classes that fit this discription and would have been contemporaries of the Hood had the war continued. I went with Hindenburg because it was the last class actually completed.

I do want to complement aeternum for his work that he has done in correcting my mistakes (I especially like those u's with the dots over them :D, I haven't trained my keyboard to do those yet) with the class names. MDow
Click to expand...

The Hindenburg wasnt a ship-class but a ship of the Derfflinger-class (3 ships of that class were build: Derfflinger, Lützow and Hindenburg)

Ok lets add the Mackensen-class

---------------------------------------
MODEL_GER_18_0;Deutschland-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_1;König-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_2;Derfflinger-class BC;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_3;Bayern-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_4;Mackensen-class BC;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_5;Scharnhorst-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_6;Bismarck-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x



My suggestion of the german part of the models.csv so far:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
MODEL_GER_18_0;Deutschland-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_1;König-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_2;Derfflinger-class BC;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_3;Bayern-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_4;Mackensen-class BC;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_5;Scharnhorst-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_6;Bismarck-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_7;H-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_8;O-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_18_9;Nuclear Guided Missile Battleship;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_1;Gazelle-class CL;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_2;Roon-class ACR;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_3;Emden-class CL;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_4;Königsberg-class CL;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_5;Admiral Hipper-class CA;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_6;Lützow-class CA;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_7;AA Light cruiser CA;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_8;M-class CA;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_9;P-class CA;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_10;Super Cruiser;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_11;Nuclear Light Cruiser;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_12;Nuclear Heavy Cruiser;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_13;Nuclear Super Cruiser;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_14;Guided Missile Cruiser;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_19_15;Nuclear Guided Missile Cruiser;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_20_0;Raubvogel-class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_20_1;T 1937-class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_20_2;Corvette;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_20_3;Frigate;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_20_4;Typ 34/A;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_20_5;Typ 36/A;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_20_6;Narvik-class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_20_7;Typ 44;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_20_8;SP 40-class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_21_0;Carrier Conversion;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_21_1;Escort Carrier;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_21_2;Helicopter Carrier;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_21_3;Small Carrier;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_21_4;Aviation Cruiser;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_21_5;Light Carrier;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_21_6;De Grasse-class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_21_7;Graf Zepplin-class CV;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_21_8;Large Carrier;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_21_9;Super Carrier;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_21_10;Nuclear Super Carrier;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_23_0;Coastal Cargo Vessel;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_23_1;Small Tramp Steamer;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_23_2;Small Tramp Freighter;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_23_3;Medium Steamer;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_23_4;Medium Freighter;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_23_5;Fast Steamer;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_23_6;Mass Produced Steamer;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_23_7;Attack Transport;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_23_8;Large Steamer;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_GER_23_9;Nuclear Merchant Vessel;;;;;;;;;;x

added: MODEL_GER_21_6;De Grasse-class;;;;;;;;;;x
The "De Grass" was a incomplete captured french cruiser. The Germans considered to transfor the De Grass to a light aircraft carrier.

any idea where transformed "passenger ships-to-carriers" do fit it?

Also, Germany planned (Z-Plan) to build a so called "Flugdeckkreuzer" which was a hybrid warship. A combination of an aircraft carrier and a cruiser/battleship. Any idea where to fit it in?
2 typs:
- "Flugdeckkreuzer" -> cruiser size
- "Grossflugzeugkreuzer" -> battleship size
 
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Re: Re: Treaty Battleship Question

Originally posted by aeternum
Ok lets add the Mackensen-class
Click to expand...

I like that idea. I went back and looked, and I had it wrong in my last post. I had put it in there as Derflinnger class. :eek:


MODEL_GER_18_8;O-class BB;;;;;;;;;;x
Click to expand...

I assume that O-class is based on the fact that the last planned H class battleship was N and no specific design?


any idea where transformed "passenger ships-to-carriers" do fit it?
Click to expand...

Escort carriers.

Also, Germany planned (Z-Plan) to build a so called "Flugdeckkreuzer" which was a hybrid warship. A combination of an aircraft carrier and a cruiser/battleship. Any idea where to fit it in?
Click to expand...

There is a aviation cruiser (carrier model 4) that sounds like it fits what you are describing. MDow
 
CORE Newbie comments

a) anyone see my post about the German cruisers being askew? The numbering of the types in the OOB is off by one. (meaning Graf Spee lists as an AA cruiser, Emden as a Hipper, etc. I know its just an oops, not a real error.

b) Sea Detection capability of aircraft -- Ju-52 has a 3, Ju-88 tac has a 3, ju-88 naval bomber a 2. Seems amiss. Might not matter, but thought I'd throw it out there.

c) Air Defence of capital ships: Sharnhorst class has like a 2, some pre-dreads have the same! I assume this is the ships' ability to take a hit from the air.....the modern ships had deck protection designed in (vs. bombs). The older ones did not, as aircraft were not bombers when designed. Not sure if rebuilds on ships ever retrofitted deck armor or not.

Jane's says the Italians laid down the first two units of the Vittorio Veneto class in 1934. Wouldn't this make them "in production" when the game starts? Was this omitted to give the Italian some choices in production (with so many other units on the slips)?

Interested in helping out.....anything I can do?
 
Sorry about not responding sooner...

Yes, there is a problem with the German cruisers. I will make a correction of that one and check the others to make sure that they are correct as well. Thank you for getting that to my attention.

Don't know anything about the naval bombers and their detection ratings. I don't think that there were any changes made to the aircraft end of things for CORE.

That rating of 2 for air defense is before you take into account any of the improvements for bigger AA guns, radar, and all of the other technologies that will improve a ships ability to withstand an air attack.

Get me the details for Veneto class and I will put them as in production for the next version coming out. MDow
 
NO APOLOGIES!

No problem.

Air Attack vs. Air Defence......air attack gets upgraded via AA guns, radar, etc. So I assumed that the defence aspect was how the unit absorbs/deflects attack from the air....sounds boring and silly, but I think it needs a look.

I just looked in the "battleship" unit file. The airdefence generally goes up, but I guess with the specific class designs done by the CORE naval crew (which I LOVE!!!), it does not advance as coherently (or even reverses itself.

Will see what I can find on the V V class. Just a reference to "laid down in 1934" in my Janes's Battleships book. Will see if we can come up with something more definitive than that.

Glad to finally be contributing!
 
Here's the info:


October 28, 1934-The keel of the Vittorio Veneto is laid down in the Cantieri Riuniti dell' Adriatico shipyards of San Marco.
Same day keel of sistership Littoria laid down in the Canteieri Ansaldo yards at Genoa.

July 25, 1937-The Vittorio Veneto is launched.
August 22 1937- The Littorio is launched.

April 28, 1940-The Vittorio Veneto is commissioned and embarks on a brief shakedown training.

May 6, 1940 Littorio is commissioned.


So, we've got the poor Italians with 2 battleships being rebuilt and 2 under construction. Would seem to be a 1/2 IC, 2x the production time situation. Also, the Veneto class was a Post Treay Battleship class....sure, they were ostentibly Treaty battleships, but they had 9 15 inch guns, high speed, good armor and exceeded the Treaty weight limits. What should we do about it.....Treaty or Post Treaty everyone?
 
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