C.O.R.E. HOI - Naval Mod

[Semi-Lobster]

I'm pretty sure Turkey does not have the tech to make battlecruisers on their own. Let alone....well anything.
Speaking of Turkey I see that they are missing the Torgud Reis. A pre-dreadnought with a displacement of 10,700 t, armament of 4 × 280mm, 2 × 280mm, 6 × 105mm, 6 × 88mm, 6 × TT 457mm and a top speeds of 16 knots. She was laid down in May 1890, launched December 14th 1891, commisioned in September 12th 1910, 1924 she became a training ship and in 1950 sold for scrap.
The only ship I can find that Turkey made herself that are in HoI's time period was the Yildiray, an Atilay class sub, the rest of her class being built overseas by Krupp Germaniawerft in Kiel.

A ship I believe should be in the game the Olaf Tryggvason. A Norwegian minelayer/cruiser. She had a displacement 1,596 t, 4 × 120mm, 1 × 76mm, 2 × MG, 250 mines, and had a top speed of 20 knots.

 

[O'Donnel Aboo!]

Cruiser stats

Hello CORE guys. I'm terribly sorry if this is the wrong place to post this. I was looking through the units script trying to figure out the difference between the transport models when i found out that the kick-ass Nuclear Guided Missile Cruiser i just built has a ZERO shore bombardment. Is that accurate? Intentional, even? I looked at the Nuclear Guided Missle Battleship and it has a shore bombardment value. Otehr Cruisers have shore bombardment values. Why not this mother-of-all Cruisers?

 

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Probably

because they didn't have the same heavy guns that the traditional cruisers were armed with? More ASM/AAMs rather than ground pounders. Take note, this is before the time of tomahawk missiles.

Best regards,
Richmond

 

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Hello, my name is Jon and first I would like to thank you for a good mod.

After taking a closer look at the naval models in CORE I cant figure out why I should invest in the newest classes of ships. I think it should be a bigger distinction between models or a smaller cost differance.

Take for example the light cruiser and the treaty light cruiser. The older light cruiser cost 756 IC*days compared to 1460 IC*days for the newer treaty light cruiser. And all you get is a point of sea attack and sea defence. The older one also has longer range! Where is the incentive to buy the newer ship type, when I can get two older one for the same money?

Or another example. Treaty battleship vs. post treaty battleship. The older one cost 8946 IC*days and the post treaty BB cost 10800 IC*days. With the only increase in stat being speed and range increase.

All the costs are with a chief of navy with a decisive battle doctrine. Also take a look a my other thread since you who knows a lot about naval combat might answer me that question.

Thanks!

 

[Semi-Lobster]

So I was curious if a pre treaty heavy cruiser will be available in 0.7?

Well here's what I think should be revised in the Soviet Navy OBB:
The Krasnyj Kavkaz should be at least a treaty light cruiser.She had a full displacement of 9,030 t, she was armed with 4 × 180mm, 8 × 100mm, 8 × 45mm, 12 × TT 533mm and 100 mines. Her top speed was 29 knots. She had 25-76mm of armour on her sides, 70mm + 19mm on the deck, and 76mm of armour on the turrets and conning tower. The Krasnyj Kavkaz had a crew of 866. It seems you got her mized up with an unrelated Soviet cruiser who isn't in the game and sister to the Chervonaya Ukrayina, this cruiser is the Krasnyj Krym.

The Aurora should also be in the game as a protected cruiser (because she was a protected cruiser). Afterall she was only converted to a memorial in 02.11.1948.

Another possible ship to add is the Sergo Ordzhonikidze, a gunboat with a displacement of 1220 t. She was armed with 2 × 130mm, 4 × 45mm, 1 × 37mm, 4 × MG 12.7mm and 3 × MG 7.62mm. She should probably be a sloop. She had a crew of 117.

Also the Amur, a 3,200 t minelayer should be in the game. She was armed with 1 × 120mm, 1 × 76mm and 320 mines. She had a top speed of 13 knots. During the Russo-Japanese War she sank two Japanese battleships, the Yashima and Hatsuse, with her mines. This eliminating one-third of the Japanese Battleship force.

The Krasnaja Armenija class minelayers should also get to be in the game (but it's up to you). They weighed 1,100 t, where armed with 3 × 130mm
2 × 76mm, 2 × 45mm, 2 × 37mm and 180 mines. They had a thrilling low speed of 9 knots. The minelayers in this class where the Krasnaja Abchazija, Krasnaja Armenija, Krasnaja Gruzija and Krasnyj Adžaristan. It would be very understandable if you choose not to put these ships in 0.7.

The Marti now SHOULD be in 0.7. A minelayer of 5,665 t (standard displacement), she was armed with 4 × 130mm, 7 × 76.2mm, 3 × 45mm, 3 × 12.7mm, and 320 to 780 mines. She had a top speed of 18.7 knots and a peace crew of 390. She was built in Burmeister & Wain, Copenhagen, Denmark, laid down in 10.10.1893, launched in 04.08.1895 and commisioned in 1896.

Now on to Germany:

The Bremse was a trainingship. Laid down by Marinewerft Wilhlemshaven, 1931,and launched and commisioned on the same day of 14.07.1932. She had a displacement of 1870 t, armed with four 127mm guns, four 37mm AA flak guns and two to eight 20mm flak guns. She had a crew ranging from 285-289 and had a top speed of 29.1 knots.
Another traning ship was Brummer, laid down in Deschimag, Bremen, 1934, launched in 29.05.1935 and commisioned in 08.02.1936. She was 3010 t, 4-8 105mm guns, two 88mm's, 4-8 37mm's, four 20mm's and 450 mines. Her top speed was 23.1 knots, and had a crew of 215-226. She was sunk during the invasion of Norway and her name was given to a captured Norwegian minelayer, the Olav Tryggvason.

The fleet tender Tsingtau was lightly armed but could be considered to be put in. She was 2490 t, a crew of 149. She was armed with two 88mm's, her top speed was 17.5mm. Laid down by Blohm & Voss Hamburg, 1933, launched in 06.06.1934, commisioned in 24.09.1934. A fleet tender as a single unit though is kinda silly though.

Another ship was the Medua, a Schwimmende Flakbatterie with a displacement of 2657 t. She had five 105mm flak guns, two 37mm guns and four 20mm guns. Laid down in AG. Weser Bremen, 1900, launched in 05.12.1900, commisioned in 26.07.1901 and in July 1940, converted to a floating AA battery.

A fleet tender of the Kriegsmarine was the Grille, with a displacement of 3430 t, and a crew of 248-257. She was armed with three 127mm guns, four 27mm guns, four 20mm guns, and 120-228 mines. Her top speed was 26 knots. She was laid down in Blohm & Voß Hamburg, 17.07.1934, launched in 15.12.1934 and commisioned in 20.05.1935. Maybe she could be a model 1 or something.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

The Royal Dutch Navy has the Tromp and Jacob van Heemskerck cruisers in development, this is inaccurate since the Tromp was laid down in 17.01.1936 and the Jacob van Heemskerck was laid down in 31.10.1938.

You are missing the light cruiser Gelderland, she had no sister ships. She had a light displacement of 3,950 t, was armed with 2 × 150mm
6 × 120mm, 6 × 75mm, 8 × 37mm, 1 × 40mm, 4 × 12.7mm and 3 × 7.7mm. Her top speed was 18 knots and had a crew of 325. She was laid down in Mij Feijenoord, Schiedam in 1897, launched in 28.09.1898, commissioned in 16.07.1900and was later captured by the Germans, renamed Niobe and turned into a flak ship.

Two Dutch sloops that are not in C.O.R.E. are the Flores and her sister, the Soemba. They had a standard displacement of 1,457 t, where armed with 3 × 150mm, 1 × 75mm and 4 × 12.7mm. Her top speed was 15 knots and a crew of 145. Her armour was 25-50mm on the sides, 50mm on the conning tower, and 14-80mm on the gunshields. Both where made by Mij Feijenoord, Schiedam.

Another Dutch sloop was the Johan Maurits Van Nassau which was pretty similar to the Flores class but not of the same class.

The Dutch coastal defence ship of the Holland Class are not in C.O.R.E. The Gelderland (her sister the Noord Brabant was decommissioned in 1920). She had a displacement of 3512 t, a crew of 325 and had an armament of 2 x 150 mm, 6 x 120 mm, 6 x 75 mm, 8 x 37 mm, 4 x .50 MG and 3 x .30 MG. Her Armour on the main deck was 50 mm, 13 mm on the gunshield and 100 mm on the conning tower. Her top speed was 20 knots. She was captured by the Germans and turned into the flak ship, the Niobe. She was laid down in 1897 in Maatschappij Feijenoord, launched September 28 1898 and commissioned in July 16 1900.
Another Dutch coastal defence ship was the Hertog Hendrik, she had a displacement of 5084 t, crew of 437, and an armament of 2 x 240 mm, 4 x 150 mm, 8 x 75 mm and 4 x 37 mm. She had a 102-152 mm armour belt, 120 mm on the lower deck, 152 mm on the bulkhead, 246 mm on the conning tower, 51 mm on the main deck, 102 mm on the turrets, and 102-245 mm on the barbettes. Her top speed was 16 knots.
Lastly, the HNMS Ijmaiden should be called the HNMS Jacob van Heemskerck, it was only renamed Ijmaiden in 1939.

Since I'm still here The Nen class of light cruisers (and they're REALLY light, I'm surprised the Swedes even considered them cruisers) where the Jacob Bagge and the Örnen. They where only 846 t and where armed with 2 × 120mm, 4 × 25mm, 12 mines and 1 × TT 380mm. They had a top speed of 19 - 20.5 knots and had 12-19mm of armour on the deck and 40mm on the conning tower. The Nens had a crew of 104 - 112.

The Clas Fleming should be a protected cruiser with maybe -1 sea defence and -1 attack seeing as it was just a really, light cruiser (not as light as the Nen's though).

 

[MateDow]

Actually, it's still happening with portuguese names. The sloop "Afonso de Albuquerque" is still called "Alfonso de Albuquerque" in the portuguese inc file.

Oops I am really beginning to dislike Portuguese MDow

 

[MateDow]

I haven't actually played Turkey but is there some kind of 'safety valve' to prevent the Turks from building another Yavus? Realistically there were no other Yavus class BC's (they were at the bottom of Scapa Flow - unless prewar Britain wants to raise one and give it to the Turks/or Germany gives them their secret shipbuilders plans) in 1936. Just wondering about this possibility.

Richmond

Actually, Turkey barely has the ability to build destroyer groups much less a battlecruiser. It is set up that a country can't build all of the ships that they have in their fleet. Australia can't build treaty heavy cruisers to replace theirs if they get sunk. They can't construct the heavy guns or propulsion plant. That goes for Turkey as well. Their construction ability is fairly limited. I have found them building small, sloop sized warships around the turn of the century. That will give them more naval construction techs than a nation that has never designed and built their own ships. MDow

 

[MateDow]

Speaking of Turkey I see that they are missing the Torgud Reis.

Torgud Ries was used as a school hulk with most of her armament removed in 1928. She was immobile from that point on.

The only ship I can find that Turkey made herself that are in HoI's time period was the Yildiray, an Atilay class sub, the rest of her class being built overseas by Krupp Germaniawerft in Kiel.

That is good to know. It might be a good event for Germany to transfer the technology to Turkey for her construction.

A ship I believe should be in the game the Olaf Tryggvason. A Norwegian minelayer/cruiser. She had a displacement 1,596 t, 4 × 120mm, 1 × 76mm, 2 × MG, 250 mines, and had a top speed of 20 knots.

Will I get in trouble if I say "sloop?" MDow

 

[MateDow]

The Royal Dutch Navy has the Tromp and Jacob van Heemskerck cruisers in development, this is inaccurate since the Tromp was laid down in 17.01.1936 and the Jacob van Heemskerck was laid down in 31.10.1938.

I will give the benefit of the doubt and leave Tromp in there. It is only 16 days. I will take the Jacob van Heemskerck out of the development pool. I hadn't seen dates for being laid down. Just a launching date and an authorization date.

You are missing the light cruiser Gelderland, she had no sister ships. She had a light displacement of 3,950 t, was armed with 2 × 150mm
6 × 120mm, 6 × 75mm, 8 × 37mm, 1 × 40mm, 4 × 12.7mm and 3 × 7.7mm. Her top speed was 18 knots and had a crew of 325. She was laid down in Mij Feijenoord, Schiedam in 1897, launched in 28.09.1898, commissioned in 16.07.1900and was later captured by the Germans, renamed Niobe and turned into a flak ship.

She was classified as non-effective by the Dutch in 1918 and converted into a training ship. In 1939 she was further derated to an accomdation hulk.

Two Dutch sloops that are not in C.O.R.E. are the Flores and her sister, the Soemba. They had a standard displacement of 1,457 t, where armed with 3 × 150mm, 1 × 75mm and 4 × 12.7mm. Her top speed was 15 knots and a crew of 145. Her armour was 25-50mm on the sides, 50mm on the conning tower, and 14-80mm on the gunshields. Both where made by Mij Feijenoord, Schiedam.

Another Dutch sloop was the Johan Maurits Van Nassau which was pretty similar to the Flores class but not of the same class.

There weren't sloops in 0.6, that is a new rating created for 0.7. Flores and Soemba will be in the next release as will Johan Maurits Van Nassau. They will all be sloops.

Another Dutch coastal defence ship was the Hertog Hendrik, she had a displacement of 5084 t, crew of 437, and an armament of 2 x 240 mm, 4 x 150 mm, 8 x 75 mm and 4 x 37 mm. She had a 102-152 mm armour belt, 120 mm on the lower deck, 152 mm on the bulkhead, 246 mm on the conning tower, 51 mm on the main deck, 102 mm on the turrets, and 102-245 mm on the barbettes. Her top speed was 16 knots.

Hertog Hendrik had half of her armament removed and was used after that as a training hulk.

Lastly, the HNMS Ijmaiden should be called the HNMS Jacob van Heemskerck, it was only renamed Ijmaiden in 1939.

I had put that name in to free up the name for the cruiser Jacob van Heemskerck which is no longer going to be under construction.

Since I'm still here The Nen class of light cruisers (and they're REALLY light, I'm surprised the Swedes even considered them cruisers) where the Jacob Bagge and the Örnen. They where only 846 t and where armed with 2 × 120mm, 4 × 25mm, 12 mines and 1 × TT 380mm. They had a top speed of 19 - 20.5 knots and had 12-19mm of armour on the deck and 40mm on the conning tower. The Nens had a crew of 104 - 112.

The three of them are more like a slow flotilla of 1000 ton destroyers in terms of armament and displacement.

The Clas Fleming should be a protected cruiser with maybe -1 sea defence and -1 attack seeing as it was just a really, light cruiser (not as light as the Nen's though).

In terms of armament and displacement she should be rated as a sloop. MDow

 

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Possible to build

hypotheticals, like the planned Dutch battlecruiser-aircraft carriers or stuff like that? Will stuff like the Hermaphrodites (Tone/Chikuma/Ise/Hyuga/Mogami late war) be represented?

Richmond

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Richmond516: The three project 1940 battlecruisers planned by the Dutch much later then 1936, I'm not sure if they had the tech to make them themselves as of 1936 or it was in a later date.

Glad to see your back MateDow, I have some stuff on the Royal Navy on the previous page and stuff on the Soviet and Kriegsmarine on this one. Thanks for clearing up the Dutch naval stuff, yes most of the Dutch CD's where next to worthless by 1936 ecept the Soerabaia.

There weren't sloops in 0.6, that is a new rating created for 0.7. Flores and Soemba will be in the next release as will Johan Maurits Van Nassau. They will all be sloops

Huh?

I had put that name in to free up the name for the cruiser Jacob van Heemskerck which is no longer going to be under construction.

Makes sense.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

I have some questions on the Mexican navy. First you have the Anahuac pre-dread/coastal batleship. I have never heard of this ship, any info on it?

Well I just want to confirm the rest of the Mexican Navy's 1a División de Destructores consists of a bunch of Patrol Craft and:

The Durango destroyer escort which was 2,000 t at full displacement, armed with 2 × 102mm, 4 × 25mm and 4 × 13.2mm, top speed was 20 knots and had a crew of 149. It was built in Union Naval de Lavante, Valencia, laid down in 28.10.1933, launched in 28.07.1935 and commisioned in 14.07.1936.

The gunboat Nicolas Bravo, full displacement of 1,493 t, an armament of 2 × 102mm, 4 × 57mm, 4 × 13mm, top speed of12.2 knots and crew of 130. She was commisioned in 1903.

The Patrol ships of the Guanajuato class. They had a displacement of 1,300 t, where amred with 3 × 102mm, 4 × 25mm and 4 × 13mm. Had a top speed of 20 knots. They had a crew of 140. They where the Guanajuato, Potosi and Queretato. The Guanajuato and Queretato where built by Societa Espanol de Construccion Naval, Ferrol while the Potosi was built in S.E.de C.N.Matagorda, Cadiz. They where all commisioned in 1935.

Gunboats go in the same category as sloops (The Uruguay for example was a gunboat which for some reason is a model 1 even though it was only 1,250 t, armed with 2 × 120mm, 4 × 76.2mm, 6 × 3pdr, 6 × MG, 2 × TT and had a top speed of 25 knots. She was built in Stettin, Germany and was launched in 1909, she should be a model 0)

 

[MateDow]

hypotheticals, like the planned Dutch battlecruiser-aircraft carriers or stuff like that? Will stuff like the Hermaphrodites (Tone/Chikuma/Ise/Hyuga/Mogami late war) be represented?

Richmond

The only 'hermaphrodite' design is the aviation cruiser. There isn't a good way to incorperate vessels being converted from one type to another. Aviation cruisers were the only purpose designed of the 'hermaphrodites.'

The Dutch will have to research small battlecruisers to be able to build them. It might be an interesting event to simulate the technology exchange between Germany and the Netherlands. The Project 1940 type battlecruisers weren't layed down before the war started in 1939. The small battlecruiser is representative of vessels like the Scharnhorst. MDow

 

[MateDow]

I have some questions on the Mexican navy. First you have the Anahuac pre-dread/coastal batleship. I have never heard of this ship, any info on it?

She is the former Marshal Deodoro which was bought from Brazil in 1924. She was decommisioned in 1938.

Well I just want to confirm the rest of the Mexican Navy's 1a División de Destructores consists of a bunch of Patrol Craft and:

The Durango destroyer escort which was 2,000 t at full displacement, armed with 2 × 102mm, 4 × 25mm and 4 × 13.2mm, top speed was 20 knots and had a crew of 149. It was built in Union Naval de Lavante, Valencia, laid down in 28.10.1933, launched in 28.07.1935 and commisioned in 14.07.1936.

The gunboat Nicolas Bravo, full displacement of 1,493 t, an armament of 2 × 102mm, 4 × 57mm, 4 × 13mm, top speed of12.2 knots and crew of 130. She was commisioned in 1903.

The Patrol ships of the Guanajuato class. They had a displacement of 1,300 t, where amred with 3 × 102mm, 4 × 25mm and 4 × 13mm. Had a top speed of 20 knots. They had a crew of 140. They where the Guanajuato, Potosi and Queretato. The Guanajuato and Queretato where built by Societa Espanol de Construccion Naval, Ferrol while the Potosi was built in S.E.de C.N.Matagorda, Cadiz. They where all commisioned in 1935.

Gunboats go in the same category as sloops (The Uruguay for example was a gunboat which for some reason is a model 1 even though it was only 1,250 t, armed with 2 × 120mm, 4 × 76.2mm, 6 × 3pdr, 6 × MG, 2 × TT and had a top speed of 25 knots. She was built in Stettin, Germany and was launched in 1909, she should be a model 0)

There is some work to be done in minor nations trying to rectify the small warships that many of them have. I would like to give them their due, but not make them too powerful. I am working on it. MDow

 

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Simple hermaphrodism

Just give them a slight recce/detection/surprise bonus and perhaps an AA bonus to reflect their crews greater readiness with AA guns for being forewarned at cost in offensive firepower of course, all available on upgrade. No cause to give them 'air capacity' w/c isn't possible anyway.

Just a suggestion
Richmond

 

[MateDow]

Need Help

I am working on the naval OOBs and don't have any readily available information on passenger liners that are extant or building in 1936. If someone has that information handy and could post it, or could refer me to a web site, it would be appreciated. I am looking for large liners (Queen Mary) that could be, or were, used as fast transports. Thank you for your help. MDow

 

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Liners

Try this site: www.greatoceanliners.net/index2.html

 

[Semi-Lobster]

I have a sizeable resource on merchant/civilian liners but I'm not sure how large a ship you are looking for. This is a very good idea though using existing large liners as transports!

 

[MateDow]

I have a sizeable resource on merchant/civilian liners but I'm not sure how large a ship you are looking for. This is a very good idea though using existing large liners as transports!

My thought was liners over 25000 GRT. That would make the cut-off right around the size of the British Britannic which was finished in 1930. This will give the UK a fleet of around 12 additional liners (targets). That should solve the AIs desire to build transports all over the place. The AI won't build more because of the model number (which is historical). MDow