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Pearl Harbor - I know noone cares, but here's my two and a half cents
Ok, here's the deal... the US would never have entered the war if it had not been for the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Therefore, we need to have an event that simulates that attack for no other reason than facilitating the U.S. entry into the war. In addition, it should not be possible for the US to reach 100% WE without this event, or at least not before 1945 or so. A condition for the event triggering might include a minimum number of Capital Ships based in Hawaii, which could then be damaged or removed in a random fashion? I am sure that this is a lot of work, but I believe that the current WE for the US is wrong because of the absence of this event.
Anyway, those are my two and a half cents, talk it or leave it.
Ok, here's the deal... the US would never have entered the war if it had not been for the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Therefore, we need to have an event that simulates that attack for no other reason than facilitating the U.S. entry into the war. In addition, it should not be possible for the US to reach 100% WE without this event, or at least not before 1945 or so. A condition for the event triggering might include a minimum number of Capital Ships based in Hawaii, which could then be damaged or removed in a random fashion? I am sure that this is a lot of work, but I believe that the current WE for the US is wrong because of the absence of this event.
Anyway, those are my two and a half cents, talk it or leave it.
Re: Pearl Harbor - I know noone cares, but here's my two and a half cents
like it has been said many times before(not to come down on you), making a pearl harbor event is impossible and the event that you describe above is impossible to write, because....
1) there is no trigger to check if there are ships in hawaii.
2) if there was there is no way we can target, damage or do anything to a specific unit. If we destroy one unit it might as well be the fighter in washington that gets removed. It is completely random.
3) there is no reason for the US to get WE 100% because it was the japanese who attacked and thus declared war against the US and not the other way around.
hope you can see why its impossible.
Ghost_dk
like it has been said many times before(not to come down on you), making a pearl harbor event is impossible and the event that you describe above is impossible to write, because....
1) there is no trigger to check if there are ships in hawaii.
2) if there was there is no way we can target, damage or do anything to a specific unit. If we destroy one unit it might as well be the fighter in washington that gets removed. It is completely random.
3) there is no reason for the US to get WE 100% because it was the japanese who attacked and thus declared war against the US and not the other way around.
hope you can see why its impossible.
Ghost_dk
I think that some event would have propelled the USA into WWII without Pearl Harbor. FDR was really interested in steering the country into participating on the Allied side. Sooner or later, the USA would have jumped in. The interesting question would be whether FDR could also DOW Germany as well as Japan. Germany DOW'd the USA historically soon after Japan's DOW. I don't think it was politically possible to get a DOW on Japan and Germany (et al) for FDR at the time. What if's abound on that one.
Japan, as well, would have certainly done something sometime. The view within the military, reacting to the geo-political aspirations of the government, was that the USA had to be neutralized as soon as possible (if possible). The exact event that would cause a Japanese declaration (with or without Germany) doesn't really matter as far as the game goes.
If a provacation is considered necessary, one could be provided, it just wouldn't involve anything that has already been described as insurmountable on this forum. As far as the game goes, a DOW is a DOW is a DOW (to roughly paraphrase).
So far, I don't get the sense that players that go as Japan seem to worry too much about an intact US fleet. Somebody, correct me if I'm wrong, but the initial Japanese fleet is somewhat more "modern" than the US fleet and can hold up their own end in any face to face.
At least those who are motivated enough to carry on can probably do so to the designers at Paradox. Only they can tell you whether hardcoding the necessary coding is financially and/or programmatically possible.
Japan, as well, would have certainly done something sometime. The view within the military, reacting to the geo-political aspirations of the government, was that the USA had to be neutralized as soon as possible (if possible). The exact event that would cause a Japanese declaration (with or without Germany) doesn't really matter as far as the game goes.
If a provacation is considered necessary, one could be provided, it just wouldn't involve anything that has already been described as insurmountable on this forum. As far as the game goes, a DOW is a DOW is a DOW (to roughly paraphrase).
So far, I don't get the sense that players that go as Japan seem to worry too much about an intact US fleet. Somebody, correct me if I'm wrong, but the initial Japanese fleet is somewhat more "modern" than the US fleet and can hold up their own end in any face to face.
At least those who are motivated enough to carry on can probably do so to the designers at Paradox. Only they can tell you whether hardcoding the necessary coding is financially and/or programmatically possible.
US War Entry
In V0.63 there is a Japanese DOW on the USA after a period of time if the USA goes to a full economic embargo. I 100% agree with that and personally see that as the proximate reason for the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. There are also some events if the Germans land in Britain that can trigger US intervention.
Other events submitted to CORE or at least reserved in the Event Treasury:
1) US Neutrality Patrol: After Roosevelt ordered the Navy to start patrolling the western Atlantic, the advice that Raeder and Donitz gave Hitler was to declare war on the USA. Hitler didn't listen, but the DOW is a "B" choice in the German reaction.
2) Loss of the USS Reuben James: Once the USN started the Neutrality Patrols and eventually conducted escort operations in international waters, lethal encounters with the Kriegsmarine were inevitable. The USS Reuben James, a destroyer, was torpedoed with heavy loss of life in November, 1941. Joining the British Alliance is a "B" choice for the US reaction.
3) Doorman Declaration: In early 1941, the USA informed Japan that a declaration of war against the British or other western powers in Asia would result in the USA declaring war on Japan. Secretary of State Hull confirmed the information to the Japanese foreign ministry. The event script here gives the USA the choice of joining the British alliance if Hong Kong, Singapore, Rabaul, or the Gilbert Islands are Japanese owned.
4) Monroe Doctrine: Some German players launch an early invasion of Brazil to secure the rubber there in 1936. I have a draft insurance event that the USA would declare war on Germany to defend the hemisphere. In each of my playtests, the British end up joining the war within a matter of weeks. So the Germans are facing the USA, Britain, France, and Brazil in 1936. Those are short games.
5) The revised Panay Incident: There a new script for this event that opens the path for the USA to join China in the war against Japan if the USA and Japan are both determined to escalate the incident. Usually, things work out on the historical path.
I can't promise all of those will get into V0.7, but they're getting scrutiny.
In V0.63 there is a Japanese DOW on the USA after a period of time if the USA goes to a full economic embargo. I 100% agree with that and personally see that as the proximate reason for the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. There are also some events if the Germans land in Britain that can trigger US intervention.
Other events submitted to CORE or at least reserved in the Event Treasury:
1) US Neutrality Patrol: After Roosevelt ordered the Navy to start patrolling the western Atlantic, the advice that Raeder and Donitz gave Hitler was to declare war on the USA. Hitler didn't listen, but the DOW is a "B" choice in the German reaction.
2) Loss of the USS Reuben James: Once the USN started the Neutrality Patrols and eventually conducted escort operations in international waters, lethal encounters with the Kriegsmarine were inevitable. The USS Reuben James, a destroyer, was torpedoed with heavy loss of life in November, 1941. Joining the British Alliance is a "B" choice for the US reaction.
3) Doorman Declaration: In early 1941, the USA informed Japan that a declaration of war against the British or other western powers in Asia would result in the USA declaring war on Japan. Secretary of State Hull confirmed the information to the Japanese foreign ministry. The event script here gives the USA the choice of joining the British alliance if Hong Kong, Singapore, Rabaul, or the Gilbert Islands are Japanese owned.
4) Monroe Doctrine: Some German players launch an early invasion of Brazil to secure the rubber there in 1936. I have a draft insurance event that the USA would declare war on Germany to defend the hemisphere. In each of my playtests, the British end up joining the war within a matter of weeks. So the Germans are facing the USA, Britain, France, and Brazil in 1936. Those are short games.
5) The revised Panay Incident: There a new script for this event that opens the path for the USA to join China in the war against Japan if the USA and Japan are both determined to escalate the incident. Usually, things work out on the historical path.
I can't promise all of those will get into V0.7, but they're getting scrutiny.
Disasters?
There are some major natural disasters that haven't been included, but which had definite and tragic consequences at the time.
1942-There was a hurricane in Dakar, Bangladesh which killed 40,000.
1948- A 7.3 earthquake levelled the capital of Sinkiang, killing 110,000.
1944- Bengal's rice crop failed, causing massive hunger and requiring a major relief effort.
There are some major natural disasters that haven't been included, but which had definite and tragic consequences at the time.
1942-There was a hurricane in Dakar, Bangladesh which killed 40,000.
1948- A 7.3 earthquake levelled the capital of Sinkiang, killing 110,000.
1944- Bengal's rice crop failed, causing massive hunger and requiring a major relief effort.
now theres a nasty surprise for the UK player
maybe a 75% chance of the event firing with a decent hit to UK manpower. They did draw a lot of soldiers from india.
ghost_dk
There should be random smaller wars that can break out between minor powers, without the axis or allies getting involved. It'd make the game a bit more interesting =D
The Allies should only start with the U.K and France in it. All others should have to join later.
The Allies should only start with the U.K and France in it. All others should have to join later.
What, so the Commonwealth just existed in a totally different plane of existence? Sure, we declared war a few days after the UK, but the outcome was never in serious debate. Belgium was also an official member of the Allies in 1936.
We don't want to end up with possible allies fighting themselves in random events (i.e., Romania and Hungary beating eachother up), or you will just weaken certain alliances, or have regional wars burst into total wars way too early.
The only exception I would like to make to this is South Africa. SAF only joined the war after a ckose vote in the parliament to side with the UK, and not remain neutral. Jan Smuts was able to get enough votes to get his pro-British policy through. Thus, SAF should not be part of the allies in 1936, but should rely on the WAR? event to decide.
Indian Famine
Yes. One of the nasty things about famines is that they fall disproportionately on the young and old. Although India contributed a lot of troops, it didn't mobilize as great a proportion of its manpower into the armed forces compared to England or Germany. I need to the math but the effects I would recommend is probably a MP hit of 40 to 100 points, permanent MP reductions of one or two points in several provinces, and a big supply hit for famine relief. Given that the famine would be spread over several months, I might break up the supplies into some subsidiary events so it doesn't bankrupt the British player.
Yes. One of the nasty things about famines is that they fall disproportionately on the young and old. Although India contributed a lot of troops, it didn't mobilize as great a proportion of its manpower into the armed forces compared to England or Germany. I need to the math but the effects I would recommend is probably a MP hit of 40 to 100 points, permanent MP reductions of one or two points in several provinces, and a big supply hit for famine relief. Given that the famine would be spread over several months, I might break up the supplies into some subsidiary events so it doesn't bankrupt the British player.
And if Italy or Japan had declared war on South Africa in 1936 would the UK have ignored the aggression or intervened? Was there defence co-operation in peacetime (ie tech exchange)?
Basically I'm quite happy with the current event setup and I think dropping SAF from the Allies might have some undesirable consequences...
Well, in order of asking:
1. The UK probably would have intervened if someone attacked a CW nation. even though SAF was slowly drifting away from the CW, even then. Of course that isn't finalized until after the war.
2. I'm not sure about the tech exchanges, or arms sales and such. SAF had a pretty good internal industry for that stuff, though nothing like it becomes in the 60's and 70's. Other than that, there wasn't any coopertaive efforts that I am aware of. This would be unlike Australia and Canada, where the links and exchanges were much closer, and they even conducted wargames with each other.
3. there is precedent for this as well. Eire was a member of teh CW until 1949, and never joined the war. And it was a very plausible possibility for SAF to remain neutral. Smuts had to pull the proverbial rabbit out of his hat to get the legislation through. The old Boer elites weren't very keen on helping Britain (and they held most of the parliamentary seats).
4. even if SAF drops from teh allies in teh WAR? event, they still send expeditionary forces, and exchange techs. That seems to be hard coded. So, the net effect is that politically, and officially, SAF would be neutral, but still supports the UK. Plus it should be easy enough for teh UK to bring them in later on.
The Japan-Germany-Italy pact should have more events. Japan should have territorial claims on all of Nationalist China, Communist China, Manchucanko, Mongolia, Siberia, India, Indochina when the pact is signed. Italy should have the provinces boardering the Mediterrainian Sea in Africa, and Turkey and full claims on Syria, Lebanon. Gilbilrator, Spain, Portgual, Greece, Albania, Yugoslavia, Romania or parts of them should also be included in that. Germany should have Austria, northern France, Estonia, Lativa and Lithuania, Hungary, Czechosolvakia/Slovakia and up to the mountains in Russia as claims.
Or it can be a bit altered but I'd like to see it added.
Or it can be a bit altered but I'd like to see it added.
masternick201 said:
National provinces ("claims") allow better production from IC and also full manpower from those provinces. It's not appropriate to assign claims unless there is at least a large minority population segment.
Steel said:
I agree, but I didnt know about the manpower and IC thing. There should be something added to that still though.
Just wondering, and i wasnt sure where to ask, but are there any events for when/if the Russians start advancing into Germany? Events for the atrocities, and the breakdown of org of the Russians. Just wondering as i havent run into any events and i think there should be something to simulate this maybe, though im not sure if its possible.
L G said:
Ewww, but that not a bad idea at all. I am sure it would totally piss off pro-Russian players but it has some basis. Problem is, of course, what occurs to the Russian army in Europe also affects the FarEast and anywhere else. But I think it merits discussion. Historically, their atrocities in such a short time period were pretty bad.
This is my first event so bare with me! 
################################################## ##
# Siam Commissions Cruisers
################################################## ##
event = {
id = whatever
random = no
country = SIA
trigger = {
exists = SIA
exists = ITA
NOT = {
War = { country = SIA country = ITA }
Name = “Siam Commissions the Taksin & the Naresuan”
Desc = “Siam, wanted to increase her naval arsenal. Siam considers commissioning Italy to make two light cruisers for her small navy.”
Style= 0
date = { day = 23 month = September year = 1939 }
offset = 1
action_a = {
name = “ok” # Siam needs cruisers!
command = { type = steelpool value = -500 } # Money to the Italians ***or whatever you see fit, rubber, coal, less, more etc.
action b = {
name = “We don’t need them”
command = { type = sleepevent which = whatever2 } #Italian Naval Tech Event
You get the idea. An event is triggered in Italy in 1942 both ships are taken by over by the Italians. There should be an event for Italy that chooses whether or not they want to keep them for themselves or give them to Siam. There should be a small penalty if they don’t but nothing big. This event obviously is triggered by the one above. Another event for either Italy or Siam puts the ships in either the countries force pool.
A similar event should be the commissioning of the Japanese to build the two sloops Tachin and Meklong in 1937. If you want more info, just ask.
################################################## ##
# Siam Commissions Cruisers
################################################## ##
event = {
id = whatever
random = no
country = SIA
trigger = {
exists = SIA
exists = ITA
NOT = {
War = { country = SIA country = ITA }
Name = “Siam Commissions the Taksin & the Naresuan”
Desc = “Siam, wanted to increase her naval arsenal. Siam considers commissioning Italy to make two light cruisers for her small navy.”
Style= 0
date = { day = 23 month = September year = 1939 }
offset = 1
action_a = {
name = “ok” # Siam needs cruisers!
command = { type = steelpool value = -500 } # Money to the Italians ***or whatever you see fit, rubber, coal, less, more etc.
action b = {
name = “We don’t need them”
command = { type = sleepevent which = whatever2 } #Italian Naval Tech Event
You get the idea. An event is triggered in Italy in 1942 both ships are taken by over by the Italians. There should be an event for Italy that chooses whether or not they want to keep them for themselves or give them to Siam. There should be a small penalty if they don’t but nothing big. This event obviously is triggered by the one above. Another event for either Italy or Siam puts the ships in either the countries force pool.
A similar event should be the commissioning of the Japanese to build the two sloops Tachin and Meklong in 1937. If you want more info, just ask.
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