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There is no need for this event. These cruisers are already in the game. They are a part of Siam's builds at the beginning of the game. The names might be a little different because of the translation of the Thai that my reference used, but I have included the Siamese cruisers. MDow
 
Phil K said:
Ewww, but that not a bad idea at all. I am sure it would totally piss off pro-Russian players but it has some basis. Problem is, of course, what occurs to the Russian army in Europe also affects the FarEast and anywhere else. But I think it merits discussion. Historically, their atrocities in such a short time period were pretty bad.

This could be handled similarly to the German reaction to partisans events. The events should have some vague attrocity and a German reaction. The effect of the Soviet's treatment of civilians and troops caused wholesale migrations from East Prussia and other eastern territories late in the war. That was the cause of the liner Wilhelm disaster as people were fleeing. It could open up an interesting avenue of events. It would have to be handled with the same respect that we have been giving to other events of that type. MDow
 
MateDow said:
There is no need for this event. These cruisers are already in the game. They are a part of Siam's builds at the beginning of the game. The names might be a little different because of the translation of the Thai that my reference used, but I have included the Siamese cruisers. MDow

No these are diffrent cruisers. The two being built are the Sri Ayuthia & Dhonburi coastal defence ships (level 3 cruiser). The Meklong and Tachin are sloops. In fact the class of sloop designated when building sloops as Siam is the Tachin class. These four ships fought in Koh Chang against the Vichy French on January 14th 1941, against the the Lamotte-Picquet and a multitude of sloops. The Dhonburi was sunk, along with Trad, Chonburi and Songhkli torpedo boats. The Sri Ayuthia was badly damaged.

The Taksin and the Naresuan where as stated in the event, built by the Italians but never sent. these two ships where modern cruisers. Here's the stats of the ORIGINAL stats of the ship before the Italians converted them to an AA cruiser.

Original Siamese units stats:
(1938 - CRDA)
Displacement: 4.300 (more likely 5300 once built)
Dims: 153.8-14.47-5.25
3 boilers
45.000 HP
30 K
6/152 Bofors
6/76
8/13.2 or 20
6 TT 533 mm (placed on the two sides near the N1 turret.
Prot. H 30mm max, V 60 mm max

(Source "Gli incrociatori Italiani", Ufficio storico della Marina Militare, 1976)


NONE of these ships are in the game (although their classes, the Taskin light cruiser (level 4 cruiser) and the Tachin sloop (level 0 cruiser) are present in C.O.R.E.).
 
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Semi-Lobster said:
No NONE of these ships are in the game (although their classes, the Taskin light cruiser (level 4 cruiser) and the Tachin sloop (level 0 cruiser) are present in C.O.R.E.).

I owe you an apology. I went back to check on that after I made the post. The difficulty is that those ships weren't laid down until 1939.

The difficulty is that you can only give Siam the most advanced model of cruiser that they can build themselves. So they would most likely get the class 0 cruiser rather than the more advanced models that were truely built. I have tried to write some events for minor naval powers to get them ships built abroad, but that limitation always comes up. The only advantage of Siam going with the ship from Italy would probably be the speed of construction rather than truely increased fighting power.

You have the same problems with getting the sloops from Japan. Siam only ordered 2 sloops. A destroyer unit contains 5 sloops or destroyers. This means that you would be granting a force 1 1/2 times larger than the historical force.

The event commands aren't really well put together to have events for building units. It is a real weakness of the system. Hopefully, they will add in a command that will allow modders to specify a model to be added rather than just the most advanced that a country can build. MDow
 
MateDow said:
I owe you an apology. I went back to check on that after I made the post. The difficulty is that those ships weren't laid down until 1939.

The difficulty is that you can only give Siam the most advanced model of cruiser that they can build themselves. So they would most likely get the class 0 cruiser rather than the more advanced models that were truely built. I have tried to write some events for minor naval powers to get them ships built abroad, but that limitation always comes up. The only advantage of Siam going with the ship from Italy would probably be the speed of construction rather than truely increased fighting power.

You have the same problems with getting the sloops from Japan. Siam only ordered 2 sloops. A destroyer unit contains 5 sloops or destroyers. This means that you would be granting a force 1 1/2 times larger than the historical force.

The event commands aren't really well put together to have events for building units. It is a real weakness of the system. Hopefully, they will add in a command that will allow modders to specify a model to be added rather than just the most advanced that a country can build. MDow

Hopefully something will come so modders could specify the model (I wasn't aware if automatically made it's most advanced model, or so I can gather from your post)

Well the Ratanakosindra and the Sukhothai (both classified as sloops but actually should be considered armoured cruisers in the game. I discussed this in the Far-East Thread) are both individual ships in the game. The class of ships are all named after these specific ships so I think they deserve to be on their own.

This may not be a problem for the Tachin and Meklong, they where commisioned in 1937. The Taskin and Naresuan where laid down in 1939. So the Italian events that I'm making could give Siam the tech to make them aswell. It's not perfect, but it's as good as it get's so far.

This way the Tachin and the Meklong will still be sloops (the best Siam could ever hope to achieve with it's IC is probably is an armoured cruiser, which according to C.O.R.E. also includes sloops) while having the Taksin and Naresuan being modern ships.
 
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Semi-Lobster said:
Well the Ratanakosindra and the Sukhothai (both classified as sloops but actually should be considered armoured cruisers in the game. I discussed this in the Far-East Thread) are both individual ships in the game. The class of ships are all named after these specific ships so I think they deserve to be on their own.

I will respond to this on the naval thread. MDow
 
In 1937 the Nationalist Spanish wanted to increase their navy. But due to little money and lack of interest by the Italians, whom they where being bought from, only four old destroyers where purchased. The Ceuta, the Melilla, the Huesca and the Teruel (or as they where called in Italy: the Falco, the Aquilla, the Guglielmo Pepe and the Alessandro Poerio). I think there should be an event where Spain may be able to purchase better ships, these ones or none at all. In exhange for some resources or being influenced a bit towards Fascism on the part of the Nationalists. I'm not sure how this could work though. The destroyers are easy to simulate as nobody is going to miss four old destroyers (or 1 destroyer flotilla) but if Spain where to buy an old cruiser, then that could be more difficult. I guess the event could be simplified so it's either the destroyers or nothing.
 
Semi-Lobster said:
In 1937 the Nationalist Spanish wanted to increase their navy. But due to little money and lack of interest by the Italians, whom they where being bought from, only four old destroyers where purchased. The Ceuta, the Melilla, the Huesca and the Teruel (or as they where called in Italy: the Falco, the Aquilla, the Guglielmo Pepe and the Alessandro Poerio). I think there should be an event where Spain may be able to purchase better ships, these ones or none at all. In exhange for some resources or being influenced a bit towards Fascism on the part of the Nationalists. I'm not sure how this could work though. The destroyers are easy to simulate as nobody is going to miss four old destroyers (or 1 destroyer flotilla) but if Spain where to buy an old cruiser, then that could be more difficult. I guess the event could be simplified so it's either the destroyers or nothing.

We are up against the limitation for coding events. There is no way to give Spain old anything. As a fairly modern naval power, they would get at least 1000 ton destroyers and treaty heavy cruisers. Until we have a option for designating the model to be given (hint, hint Paradox), we will hit that limitation pretty frequently. MDow
 
Semi-Lobster said:
Oh yes, THAT problem again, sorry! :eek:o

Not a problem. It is a rather annoying problem. You should see my list of events for when that problem is resolved. Greek and Turkish building, Siamese building... and so on. MDow
 
My suggestion for an event can be used for many nations.

For France, perhaps an event that has an option for "North African Independence" where you can choose to offer independence to several North African provinces after the war is over (so it would be implemented after the start of war). If you select to promise independence, then the manpower of several north african provinces would increase by an amount and dissent would increase by an amount less than 7%. IC could increase in some north african provinces like Djelfa and Tlemcan etc. too. And perhaps add one cavalry and two militia (maybe one infantry?) division to the force pool to represent Berber nomads (cavalry) and quickly assembled volunteers for French forces in Africa (militia).

I think the event could go for any country with colonies and an empire. Like the British could promise independence to India after the war (similar to the current Indian independence event) and promise independence to Sudan, Kenya et cetera. Portugal could choose to grant independence post war to Angola and Mozambique. The Netherlands promise indenpendence to Indonesia and the Belgians to the Kongo. Denmark to Iceland and Greenland too.

Another suggestion is for fictitious events where nations offer to "buy" provinces from other nations. Like Britain offering to buy Gao from Portugal for supplies and resources or the Netherlands trying to buy East Timor. Or like Italy trying to buy Malta; Greece trying to buy Rhodes or Dodenaikos; Siam trying to buy Cambodia; Natchi trying to buy Macao (or britain doing the same). Just a far flung suggestion there.
 
The Allied bombing of Baku

In 1939-1940 the British and French explored the possibility of bombing the Baku oilfields. Their fear was the very real one (given the Soviet-German non-aggression pact) that the Germans would get to use the Russian oil to conquer the world. This plan never came to fruition BUT the German intelligence network got wind of it and spilled the beans to Stalin who naturally became even MORE distrustful of the Western Allies. Can provide more details if you guys are interested.

Another thing that this suggests is the possibility that the Soviets can 'buy off' the Germans with oil (and possibly the Japanese as well!). A series of Molotov-Ribbentrop conferences perhaps which would work in Germany's favor with Russia supplying mondo amounts of oil to Germany in exchange for German techs and, more importantly, Germany keeping out of Russia! Naturally this would tick off the western allies big-time. It doesn't mean that Barbarossa doesn't take place it just means that it is even more random and unpredictable. Germany can stab Russia in the back in 1941 or it can focus on the conquest of the west while Russia can build up her forces then attack Germany on her own time. The big showdown's gonna happen, the question is when...

Also, and I suggested this before, could an event be scripted so that if Russia and Germany are at war in 1939, the Germans don't press the demands for Danzig? They don't need to go through Poland if they're sending expeditionary forces through their allies in eastern Europe and the Balkans. No to a two front war for Germany. I don't think even Hitler would be that stupidly suicidal.

Or, if Hitler does insist, could the coup events of 1944 be moved to 1939? The German generals refusing to see their nation sacrificed to a madman's vision in a two front war stage a coup? Naturally this sees the fanatics of Hitler's camp ranged against an 'alternative' frei-Deutschland government in a sort of German Civil War. Something like that.

Best regards,
Richmond
 
I also made some suggestions in the Soviet USSR thread

About the Phoney war period (there doesn't seem to be any), Ukraine as the Soviet breadbasket, and the non-existence of a Soviet-Japanese non-aggression pact. Please see the Soviet thread for these.

Thanks,
Richmond
 
The planned Allied bombing of the Baku oilfields

At the start of WW2 the Allies, then the British and French, were faced with the problem of cutting off German oil supplies while preserving their own, which mainly came from Persia (Iran) and North America. Germany's main oil supplier was Romania which produced about 6.8 million tons per year. However, with the Russo-German Non-Aggression pact of August 1939 the Germans would gain access to Russia's 35 million ton yearly production, not to mention vast natural resources. In 1940 German oil imports totalled some 2.05 million tons of which some 800,000 were from the Soviet Union, the rest from Romania. Thus in January 1940, the Anglo-French Supreme War Council began looking at ways to hinder or stop the flow of Soviet oil to Germany.

Just a month previous British intelligence had completed and submitted a study on the vulnerability of the Soviet oil industry. They found that some 75% of Russia's oil production was centered in the Caucausus in production facilities located in or near Baku and Batum. There were only two options: disrupt the transport of oil across the Black Sea to the Danube, or attack the oilfields themselves. The Danube option was first chosen as neither Britain nor France wanted to antagonize the Russians and it would have the additional advantage of cutting off Romanian oil as well. However, British efforts to restrict the transport barge traffic by economic and clandestine means were unsuccesful. The next option studied was to attack the oil tankers in the Black Sea which brought the oil to the Danube and were mostly assumed to be German, but the neutrality of Turkey was threatened by this and the Montreaux Convention limited the size and number of ships of non-Black Sea powers that could enter the Turkish Dardanelles.

Another option looked at was fomenting rebellion among the Moslem population of the Caucausus something like at the start of Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising, but this was discarded due to lack of an extensive covert network there. Thus General Maurice Gamelin Allied CinC in France recommended the initiation of plans to attack the oil facilities with military force. The French believed that an extensive bombing campaign would deal a heavy, if not decisive blow to the Soviets, while the British believed that the mere threat of an attack would deter the Soviets from further cooperation with the Germans. The French vehemently disagreed saying that deterrence had not worked with Hitler and would not work with Stalin (Chamberlain was still PM at this time). Finally by late Feb 1940, even if they felt it unwise to go to war with Russia, the British agreed to the plan.

By early march, the British Chiefs of Staff submitted reports on the potential impact of a war against Russia including a study of Russo-German collaboration, weaknesses in the Soviet industrial base, transportation system (they use a totally different railway gauge than Western Europe), and oil industry. They also examined potential Soviet counteractions in places like Iran and Iraq. The French, who were feeling the German threat more directly and whose colonies (unlike British India) were less directly threatened, wanted to attack immediately.

The first problem was aerial recce photographs. The British spy plane took off from Habbaniya air base in Iraq and was able to photograph part of Baku before being driven off by flak and fighters. A second mission successfully gathered all photographic intel and the air staffs began to plan the mission. The British were to commit four Blenheim IV squadrons and a single squadron of Wellesleys with the Blenheims conducting low level daylight raids and the Wellesleys attacking at night from Mosul airbase in Iraq. The French would attack with five Martin Maryland equipped squadrons with extra fuel tanks for greater range from Djezireh in Syria. On April 17, Weygand announced that operations were ready to commence.

The French High Command wanted to begin the attacks during the last week of June 1940, the British were not so enthusiastic and refused to commit as Chamberlain and later Churchill felt that driving the Soviets into open military alliance with Germany would outweigh any benefits gained from destroying the oil facilities. The Russians had concluded the Winter War in March 1940 and the Allies were fighting a desperate see-saw battle for Norway by April. An uncommitted Russia would surely retaliate against British middle-eastern oil interests, something that Britain could not risk.

Then also by early March there were indications that the Soviets knew of the Allied plans. Soviet troops moved into the Caucasus to protect the oilfields. The Soviet government consulted American officials on how to combat oil fires in the event of aerial bombardment. Molotov even asked the Germans in April whether they could supply the Russians with magnetic naval mines to use against hypothetical British units attack Murmansk or the Black Sea ports. Finally on March 29, Molotov announced in a speech that the 'anti-Soviet implications of the Anglo-French forces under General Weygand in the Near East have forced the Soviet Union to take countermeasures for defense' Baku by then would have over 250 AA guns and several squadrons of fighters. Unlike the high flying recce planes, the Blenheims would have to fly low level within engagement range of AA batteries and fighter defenses and Germany may well have provided Me-109s had the campaign become protracted to protect 'their stake' in the Baku oil fields. While the distrust between Hitler and Stalin would have limited their acceptance of 'expeditionary forces' the potential Soviet threat to British interests in the Near East (and also India) would have strained the already stretched British defenses. Hitler wanted the oilfields intact and would probably have offered troops (which Stalin would have turned down) and modern aircraft and German AA artillery (which Stalin might have accepted in exchange for more Soviet raw materiel including oil).

When the Germans marched into Paris they captured the French records of the operations and published them all on July 4, 1940 headlining it as the "Planned Attack Against Russia" and provided copies of all the documents to the Soviet government. The British responded by saying that it was only an examination into whether 'in certain eventualities, it would be possible to interfere with the output of oil from the Caucasian wells'.

The second eventuality came in 1942 when the Germans were conducting operation Blau and driving down the Transcaucasus. Stalin became aware of the British plans and preparations through his spies in MI-5 and MI-6 which reinforced his distrust of the Western Allies and if the plans were carried out then (the equivalent of the bombardment of the French Fleet at Oran) they may have forced at least a part of the Soviet Union to seek an accommodation with the Germans.

Richmond
 
need help on 'secedeprovince'

Look at the following event. It is one of many I am writing that causes an AI Siam to cede control of certain SE Asian provinces to its ally Japan (or puppet master, that being the case). It loads fine, logs in the event log fine, but the province remains Siam-colored and when I load as Japan the province is indeed Siam's and not that of Japan:

event = {
id = 8800202
random = no
persistent = yes
country = SIA

trigger = {
ai = yes
OR = {
alliance = { country = JAP country = SIA }
puppet = { country = SIA country = JAP }
}
control = { province = 1765 data = SIA } #
}

date = { day = 5 month = january year = 1936 }
offset = 7
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1947 }

name = "Siam cedes control of Kuala Lumpur to Japan"
desc = ""
style = 0

action_a = {
name = ""
command = { type = secedeprovince which = JAP value = 1765 }
}
}

What is the deal? What do I have to do to turn it into Japanese control (for resource accumulation)? Is the secedeprovince action busted?
 
Please clarify ADDCORE

Does this also add the core to the country's 'claims' list? Meaning, in my view, that if they capture the territory it gets added to their core provinces as home provinces?

Is it possible to have two or more countries with ADDCORE commands for the the same province during a game? Separate events for each country that add the same core into their claims list.

-PK