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Jarkko Suvinen said:Does that mean the Italians are already listed somwhere?
Well, I have them in my files, but they currently all live in Veince. I was just waiting for you to ask for them, since you weren't sure you were going to play...
They'll be up soon.
Perhaps we should begin to summarize all the rules?
I.Claiming Titles
A. You may not claim king titles by use of grab title.
1. You may only claim king titles by inheritance (4th in line, can we usurp?)
B. You may not create Kingdom titles that have already existed unless...
1. You can trace a relation to the last ruler of the kingdom
2. There is no living relative of the last king (perhaps we should allow you to create if you have a relative of the last king in your court)
C. You may create any kingdom that has not existed yet as Christian
II. Crusading
A. Offensive Crusades may only be launched by characters with the Crusader trait.
1. Offensive crusades can take any amount of land and have no requirement besides the crusader trait
B. Defensive crusades may be launched by anyone
1. Defensive crusades can only be launched to protect a Christian kingdom that is under attack and only formerly Christian land can be taken (Also I assume we can attack even if they Christian kingdom was wiped out decades ago?)
That's all I can think of for now.
Also, I would like to re-post my character, as the old iteration was outdated and had "outlawed" stats.
Kazimierz Piast:
Martial: 9 (13)
Diplomacy: 7 (8)
Intrigue: 3 (4)
Stewardship: 9 (10)
Health:6
Fertility: 6
Knowledged Tactician, Just, Indulgent
I.Claiming Titles
A. You may not claim king titles by use of grab title.
1. You may only claim king titles by inheritance (4th in line, can we usurp?)
B. You may not create Kingdom titles that have already existed unless...
1. You can trace a relation to the last ruler of the kingdom
2. There is no living relative of the last king (perhaps we should allow you to create if you have a relative of the last king in your court)
C. You may create any kingdom that has not existed yet as Christian
II. Crusading
A. Offensive Crusades may only be launched by characters with the Crusader trait.
1. Offensive crusades can take any amount of land and have no requirement besides the crusader trait
B. Defensive crusades may be launched by anyone
1. Defensive crusades can only be launched to protect a Christian kingdom that is under attack and only formerly Christian land can be taken (Also I assume we can attack even if they Christian kingdom was wiped out decades ago?)
That's all I can think of for now.
Also, I would like to re-post my character, as the old iteration was outdated and had "outlawed" stats.
Kazimierz Piast:
Martial: 9 (13)
Diplomacy: 7 (8)
Intrigue: 3 (4)
Stewardship: 9 (10)
Health:6
Fertility: 6
Knowledged Tactician, Just, Indulgent
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Offensive crusades can only be launched by people with crusader trait? Then I suggest we alter the excommunication rules to RP reason required only (merely -10 piety is not reason enough), because we'll have a lot of negative piety kings...
Quite well summarized, Sterkarm. One additional point though: Claiming titles also applies to dukes who have vassals or in case of multi-dukes, those duke titles they have vassals in the claimable area of, vassals not being in the claimable area of any title held count as vassals of primary title.
It it intentional that you may grab a duke title that has no vassals left, meaning that if you take all the land of a duke's count vassals, you can grab and take the duke title.
Also to clarify: The Claiming Titles rule concerns forcing claims in war, not grabbing. Meaning that if you want to take a king title, you need a sound RP reason to do so. You may grab titles and usurp them, but that is just waste of prestige, unless you have RP-wise valid claim to proclaim the ruler is not a legitimate one.
Creating king titles when you have a relative of the last king in your court can be allowed, but it would require you to give the kingdom title to him right after you have created it (you still get the prestige though). If you want to have it yourself, marry a daughter of that relative you have hanging around to yourself or your heir.
In defensive crusade you may take:
A) Land held by the christian kingdom at the start of current invasion by heathens
B) Any other christian provinces held by the attacking heathens
Defensive Crusade is not launched to increase the size of your realm cheaply. The most important rule about Defensive Crusade is that all land taken from heathens will be given back to the rightful king via edit between sessions. If you want to keep that land, I'll give you 0.8 BB for each province you want to keep. If you allow it to be edited back to rightful king, I will reduce your BB by 0.2 for each province held directly by you that gets edited away.
Kingdom of Jerusalem is a special case, as if the kingdom is destroyed you may freely crusade in KoJ area (held by it at start) to re-establish it. The lands need to be given to non-heir courtiers or vassals in KoJ area afterwards though and KoJ title given to strongest vassal there. Taking back Jerusalem (province) when KoJ still exists falls under normal Defensive Crusades.
If these seem complicated, just ask for clarfication and I'll do my best to explain. The purpose of these rules is to enhance the RP aspect of the game.
And regarding Excommunication, you need solid RP reason to excommunicate people. You may not excommunicate people under 20. There is no piety requirement.
Also, you may request removal of Papal Controller by edit between sessions. I will edit highest piety guy in a NPC realm to be Papal Controller instead then.
EDIT: Added things about Excommunication, thanks Solmyr.
It it intentional that you may grab a duke title that has no vassals left, meaning that if you take all the land of a duke's count vassals, you can grab and take the duke title.
Also to clarify: The Claiming Titles rule concerns forcing claims in war, not grabbing. Meaning that if you want to take a king title, you need a sound RP reason to do so. You may grab titles and usurp them, but that is just waste of prestige, unless you have RP-wise valid claim to proclaim the ruler is not a legitimate one.
Creating king titles when you have a relative of the last king in your court can be allowed, but it would require you to give the kingdom title to him right after you have created it (you still get the prestige though). If you want to have it yourself, marry a daughter of that relative you have hanging around to yourself or your heir.
In defensive crusade you may take:
A) Land held by the christian kingdom at the start of current invasion by heathens
B) Any other christian provinces held by the attacking heathens
Defensive Crusade is not launched to increase the size of your realm cheaply. The most important rule about Defensive Crusade is that all land taken from heathens will be given back to the rightful king via edit between sessions. If you want to keep that land, I'll give you 0.8 BB for each province you want to keep. If you allow it to be edited back to rightful king, I will reduce your BB by 0.2 for each province held directly by you that gets edited away.
Kingdom of Jerusalem is a special case, as if the kingdom is destroyed you may freely crusade in KoJ area (held by it at start) to re-establish it. The lands need to be given to non-heir courtiers or vassals in KoJ area afterwards though and KoJ title given to strongest vassal there. Taking back Jerusalem (province) when KoJ still exists falls under normal Defensive Crusades.
If these seem complicated, just ask for clarfication and I'll do my best to explain. The purpose of these rules is to enhance the RP aspect of the game.
And regarding Excommunication, you need solid RP reason to excommunicate people. You may not excommunicate people under 20. There is no piety requirement.
Also, you may request removal of Papal Controller by edit between sessions. I will edit highest piety guy in a NPC realm to be Papal Controller instead then.
EDIT: Added things about Excommunication, thanks Solmyr.
Apologies to Jarkko, Italy will be posted during my daughter's nap today. I got rather busy transferring all the information from my files over to Byaks and then ironing out the problems that popped up from doing so.
I'll be on AIM today likely for quite a many hours still Pat, so if you got anything to ask, don't hesitate to pop me with a message.
To give people more options at start, I've decided we should have more than 100 prestige at start. I've been thinking that either 500, 750 or 1000 prestige for a PC king at start. NPC kings can be given same prestige as players, if desired. But which amount is the best? 500, 750 or 1000? On normal difficulty grabbing a single province claim costs about 150 - 300 prestige, depending on wealth of the prov and duchy title claiming costs at least 250 prestige each.
I think 750 might be reasonable amount, as it allows taking few claims. You don't have to spend prestige straight away though, you can save it up.
I think 750 might be reasonable amount, as it allows taking few claims. You don't have to spend prestige straight away though, you can save it up.
Also, my wife's updated stats are:
Martial: 8
Diplomacy: 6
Intrigue: 3
Stewardship: 9
Health: 6
Fertility: 8
Age: 16
Fortune Builder, Forgiving, Merciful
Martial: 8
Diplomacy: 6
Intrigue: 3
Stewardship: 9
Health: 6
Fertility: 8
Age: 16
Fortune Builder, Forgiving, Merciful
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I don't think giving people more than 100 prestige to start out with is a good idea. I think we should give people the low initial starting prestige to help the game settle in before player wars start breaking out.
Patrucio said:
Well, starting prestige can be used for claims, but they don't necessarily have to be in player kingdoms and prestige can be stored instead of used. Also claims don't necessite player wars at start.
Byakhiam said:
Perhaps, but I think players will build up enough prestige quickly enough to be making claims or ensuring vassal loyalty through the natural gain from their kingly titles and vassals. I see no need to accelerate the process.
Patrucio said:
Well, this prestige thingy has most to do with the once planned thing to have players start with some claims to represent "ancestral claims". Then I figured it's simpler to give them prestige for claims and it gives the option to use it when they please.
We can of course have everyone start with 100 prestige and no claims, but that improves the strength of big kings (more dukes -> more prestige).
Gee, I wonder why the most powerful country is the one proposing this extra prestige?
I don't think it's necessary at all.
I don't think it's necessary at all.
Hyzhenhok said:Gee, I wonder why the most powerful country is the one proposing this extra prestige?
Well, I don't propose it as a player of Germany, but as the designer of the scen.
Hyzhenhok said:
Well, 2 vs 1 for no extra prestige now. If the extra prestige is opposed by majority tomorrow, there won't be any.
Jarkko Suvinen said:Count me in too, so 3 votes for the opposers
And as I abstain, I guess that's settled then. No extra prestige.
I'm a bit unclear on when you are allowed to grab and take duke titles by conquest? Only when the duke has no vassals? That would lead to almost no possible wars because you can bet all NPC dukes will have vassals as soon as they get sons, likely within 20 years of game start. If you are only allowed to take some piddly counties in a war and cannot touch the duke, then I don't see wars as very useful. I suggest that duke titles can be grabbed and conquered freely, and only royal titles are restricted.
Solmyr said:
Well, if you have RP-wise sound claim (as with kingdom titles) you may take ducal titles as well. Also as you can take the counties of duke's vassals, you may deprive a duke of vassals. It's just more expensive bb-wise.