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Solmyr said:
I'm a bit unclear on when you are allowed to grab and take duke titles by conquest? Only when the duke has no vassals? That would lead to almost no possible wars because you can bet all NPC dukes will have vassals as soon as they get sons, likely within 20 years of game start. If you are only allowed to take some piddly counties in a war and cannot touch the duke, then I don't see wars as very useful. I suggest that duke titles can be grabbed and conquered freely, and only royal titles are restricted.

Well, the whole point of making it so you can only take a Duke's title when he has no vassals is to make wars more protracted and piece-meal rather than all-or-nothing. Well, there's also the point of preventing larger territory swings, where you take out a Duke and get all his vassals as an added bonus. If you really wanted to wipe out a Duke in one fell swoop, you would just have to bide your time, get claims on all his vassals and his ducal title, and then declare war on him and all his vassals simoutaneously.

And, as Byak said, if you inherit a claim, you can make a bid on it without needing to take all his vassals. Furthermore, if you get an noble with a claim on the Ducal title in your court (say, after the Duke declared war on you in response to you attacking his vassals), you can directly attack and conquor the Duke so long as you give everything you take to the claim-holder that joined your court. In the latter secnario you wouldn't gain any land (unless you wanted to take the added BB hit), but you would gain the title as a vassal.
 
Btw, Hyz, Byak's not the one proposing it, I was the one who suggested it to him first, and I think at least a little bit should be given, otherwise we won't have anything to do for years upon years, except marry and assassinate. And, actually, it would slightly hurt him as well, because a big advantage of Germany is the fact that they get much more prestige because they have lots of dukes.

Perhaps for duke/king titles, you can also press them if someone of your line once held them (like what happened to me in Sunday game, my father lost his dukes and such to revolts, and then I inherited claims)? Or maybe you already said that and I misunderstood.
 
Italy

The King's Brother

Luigi Connici

Young Luigi is a very clever fellow, possessing great natural talents in most aspects of courtly life. Though the courtier that he apprenticed under was more prestigious than talented, Luigi developed an acceptable level of skill at manipulating a court. His manipulations are aided by his deserved reputation for worthy behaviour, being both a naturally modest and temperate man. Luigi is only an average-looking man, but his keen mind earns him the respect most courtiers seek to win with charm and grace.

The King's Cousins

Ambrogio Capponi

Ambrogino is a trusted and honored military commander, well trained in his craft and respected throughout Italy. Never possessing any great talents to speak of, Ambrogino has proven himself through mastery of his craft and the tremendous wisdom his patient and meticulous studies have brought him.

Bonaventura Guerrazzi

Bonaventura has long been a rival of his cousin, Ambrogio. Where Ambrogio sought to prove himself through rigorous application and practice, Bonaventura has always relied on natural talent. Bonaventura has proven time and again that, while his natural talent for military affairs cannot be easily dismissed, his decision to rely solely on natural talent has always been considered misguided. Because of that, Bonaventura has never gained the same esteem his cousin and rival has. This has made Bonaventura angry with God, and he has expressed more than once his belief that the fairness of God priests preach of is a lie. His closing of his heart to God has produced in him a very arbitrary mindset, and leaving him very ill-disposed towards religious people. As he no longer fears God, he also has come to regularly indulge in the carnal pleasures.

The King's Brothers-in-Law

Cesare Boromeo

Cesare the Hunch-Backed, much like his good friend Ambrogino, has always relied more on talent than hard work to make his name. Fortunately for Cesare, he has always possessed quite a bit more talent that his good friend, and has proven capable at whetever he tries. Cesare always demonstrates great faith in those around him, and also has shown his willingness to follow Christ's example and turn the other cheek to those that would derride him for his malformation.

Giuseppe Mancini

Giusippe his a hardened veteran of Italy's many wars. His foot was badly mangled in a conflict a few years ago, but he is still one of Italy's greatest warriors. He is rightly proud of all his many accomplishments, but Guiseppe is not one content to rest upon his laurels. He is always eager to start new projects or attempt new challenges, and is very popular among the nobles of Italy for his uneding dedication to his liege.

Innocenzo Cadorna

Innocenzo is the most accomplished tactician of his generation. A gifted and subtle man, his list of accomplishments in command of Italy's armies is rivaled only by his tremendous ego. Innocenzo is himself a very judgemental fellow, and thinks poorly of those noblemen unwilling to take to the sword and defend their land as he believes nobles aught. Because of that, Innocenzo is not so popular among the nobility as he perhaps should be.

Leonardo di Parma

Leonardo is a man of middling talents and of little accomplishment. He is, however, the eldest son of the powerful Guido di Parma, and thus commands great respect. Like his father, Leonardo is a very avaricious man. Unlike his father, he has tremendous respect for life and seeks to treat others in a kindly way. Leonardo has recently returned from a trip abroad, where he seem to have contracted a strange illness.

Michaelangelo Pelligrino

Crafty Michaelangelo is a talented courtier from Rome. He has always been considered a remarkably bold fellow, never afraid to speak his mind. Unfortunately, Michaelangelo also has no compunctions about spinning elaborate lies in order to make himself look better. Some believe that is why he no longer resides in Rome. Even so, Michaelangelo is a skilled courtier, and has a very good understanding of how a court's underbelly operates.

Nobles married to the King's Cousins

Enrico d'Este

Enrico was born from lust a bastard, and the sin of his birth is one that he cannot resist to this day. Dispite this weakness, Enrico has risen to become the most respected theologian in all of Italy. Other than his inability to resist the temptations of women, he is a model of Christian virtue, both modest and wise. His skill in bedding women is remarkable, particularly given that he is a rather ugly man who has taken holy orders. Still, he is sly and strong, and serves God well in his own way.

Gentile della Bande Nere

Gentile was one of many young men who went to fight in the Crusades against the Saracens. Unlike most, he never developed a taste for the conflict he witnessed and came back a detached fellow. He did take the Holy Orders while in Jerusalem, but has not shown much interest in following through with his oath. Dispise his lack of enthusiasm for the cloth, he is a generally energetic and excitable fellow. The bloodshed of the crusades has also left him a markedly merciful and compassionate fellow.

Orlando de Medici

Orlando de Medici is one of the craftiest of the newest generation of merchants. Orlando has a tremendous gift for making people rich. He is good at almost anything he tries, but it is his excellence with gold that has earned him the lofty honores that have been heapend upon him. Orlando has a fairly poor view of those that take to the cloth or to the sword, believing that true power in this world comes from money. He is, however, a kind and tender person, and few suspect the ruthless talent for making money that lies underneath the surface.

Rafaele Sforza

Some say Rafaele is the Devil himself. Others just say that Lucifer stays out of his way out of respect for an equal. Rafaele is one of the most devious and cunning people alive today. There has never been a scheme yet concocted that he couldn't unravel, and nobody (and everyone) always assume that he is manipulating them. Rafaele is exceedingly arrogant (though his arrogance is certainly well-deserved) and amazingly selfish (though no intelligent person would refuse Rafaele his due.)

Vittore Andreotti

Vittore is a charming man, graceful and suave. His grace is hard-earned, as he was relentlessly mocked as a young boy as a strong ox and little else. Though he has always posessed a great natural talent for military matters, he chose to become a courtier- if only to defy expectations. Thus far, he has defied them spectacularly. Vittore has always been eager to prove himself, though some say his eagerness is closer to rashness. Vittore also has a reputation for embellishment, but such is his likability that his decietfulness is seen as charming rather than sinister.
 
Italian Duchies:

King's duchies: Genoa and Veneto

Archbishobry of Verona - Gentile della Bande Nere

Republic of Toscana - Cesare Boromeo

The feudal duchies:
Marche - Giuseppe Mancini
Milan - Luigi Connici
Romagna - Ambrogio Capponi
Sardinia - Leonardo di Parma
Spoleto - Michaelangelo Pelligrino
 
I assume Patrucio will put it for DL when he has put italians in place according to Jarkko's wishes later tonight.

Are you willing and able to host, Solmyr? Last weeks session went very smoothly.
 
Solmyr said:
Sure, I can host. Only thing with my game is that if we have to quit and restart at some point, I need to restart the game entirely, otherwise it gets stuck on compressing the save.

Well, if I get a ctd, I have to practically reboot computer, so restarting the game should not be so big a problem.
 
Ok, the dukes for Aragon:

Mallorca (Archbrishop) Vidal d'Empuries
Catalonia (Mercantile Republic) Roger de Luna

Spanish Marche (Feudal) Bofill de Cerdanya
Murcia (Feudal) Bertan Jimenez
 
Jarkko Suvinen said:
King's duchies: Genoa and Veneto

I'm going to assume Veneto is the Royal Demense, and give that one the tech bonus. If you'd rather Genoa have the better technology, just pipe up before I get the scenario posted.
 
I almost named one of Italy's courtiers Donatello, even though he isn't on the list of Italian names in the file, just so Jark could have all four Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles in his country. I settled for three. ;)
 
By the way Patr, you have changed Kazimierz and Helena accordingly?
 
Patrucio said:
I'm going to assume Veneto is the Royal Demense, and give that one the tech bonus. If you'd rather Genoa have the better technology, just pipe up before I get the scenario posted.

Veneto is both richer and bigger of the two, so at least I suppose Veneto will be royal duchy.

Throw me with an IM when you are done and have scen for DL so I can DL and do final checkup, ok?
 
I'd like to have Veneto as the Royal duchy, yes.

Unfortunately I have to get to work tomorrow morning at 7 clock local time (because of one of the employees is sick, and I can't get anybody to fill in at this time :( ), which means I'll have to get up at 6 (when this game is supposed to start) and get to work. I should be back after 10 AM local time (ie 8 GMT) because after that there will be enough people at work, and if you still play then I'd like to join in.
 
Well, AI should be able to handle itself. You have a preset wife so AI won't likely marry your ruler to any depressed lepers and if your demesne is small enough to be handled by your ruler without large demesne penalty (aka less than equal to amount of provinces than your effective stewardship), AI won't appoint anyone else, but your sons as counts.

I think we can also refrain from abusing your absence in warfare side.

Or you / we can get a sub.
 
Byakhiam said:
I think we can also refrain from abusing your absence in warfare side.

Yes, it'd be best to avoid repeating what happened the second session of the Game of Thrones....
 
After I checked around, everything seems to very good. There is just one minor glitch: Mallorca has mercantile techs, while having ecclestical capital bonus and being an archbishopric. If you notice something wrong, please mention it here.

Also, as some AI rulers have too big demesne for their abilities, should I add the rulers in question a bunch of 5-5-5-5-misguided warrior placeholder guys they can appoint as counts, to save us from countesses? Or should I add them as vassal counts immediately? Or do we get along with random countesses?

I'll be going to sleep now and I'll wake up at 5:00 local time to do any changes needed and then post final version for DL. Anything not here by then has to wait until after first session to be edited.
 
The scenario looks good and pretty much ready to play. I haven't seen anything wrong besides what Byak mentioned. I would support giving the dukes in question several 5-5-5-5-6-6 misguided warriors so we can avoid the perpetual-country-cousin-countess phenomenon.

One note: Would it be better for Anatolia, controlled by the Ottomans, to be Sunni? I've just noticed this now. Not only is it weird that a country ruled entirely by Sunnis is entirely Orthodox in population, it's questionable whether attacking Anatolia is 'helping' the Romans, or an actual Offensive Crusade.