Sirius Business - a C# Aurora forum game. v2.5

[blue emu]

I've found myself unable to participate in this thread for a bit over a month, so I'm not 40 pages behind... Well, I'll try and catch up, and try not to ask too many questions which aren't of general importance.

Why wuld there be some we can't enslave? - You can't enslave Hazards (as far as I know) such as these Goons we were fighting.

What's grade points? - Crew Quality.

Do we have defences at all mining sites? - Every single one. A system with five comet mines has five complete sets of STO defenses.

Why would it matter whether a scout ship can move faster than the enemies it looks at? If it's not discovered th speed shoudlnt' matter. - If it's not discovered.

What's MSP? - Maintenance points. In some contexts (quite commonly, in fact) it means spare parts.

Is there a reason Xi-Bootis-A wasn't an option? - A super-Jovian with no moons. Nowhere to put the base except in orbit.

For that wedge, am I then understanding correctly that it'll always be only one block wide at the top, so if it's 3 deep it'll also be 3 wide at the base? - Three deep is five wide.
Each layer of penetration overlaps one block to left AND one block to the right, so it goes 1 / 3 / 5 / 7 etc. That's why I was talking about "perfect squares". Because 1+3 = 4, and 1+3+5 = 9, and 1+3+5+7 = 16, and so on. Perfect squares.

Why would a slower missile ever be bad, btw? - Easier for the defender to hit. Easier to shoot down. Harder for the missile to hit fast targets. Takes longer to REACH the target, so the success/failure result of the attack remains unknown longer.
Like , it'd still be way way faster than any ships we can meet (at least any we can meet and have any reasonable hope of beating).

 

[Wagonlitz]

Over 36% of our income, last year.

Begs teh question, what is it now.
(As per usual I won't read replies until I catch up, whihc hopefully should be fast.)

Gonna research the other one, too... since it's only 467 research points (it cost 30,000 for the Theory tech!).

Why spend research points on something we won't use, though?
It might not be much, but it'st still something.

I think the only way to upgrade STO is by researching a STO ground unit with the latest Gauss/Laser technology and then replace the old STO ground unit with the new one in the formation template. Next time the STO gets damage they'll get replace with the new units. But there's definitely no way to upgrade the armies.

So even if artmies are damaged, they won't have new gear supplied as replacement?

What was it those round space stations at the bottom corner or some systems mean?

Heh-heh... it looks like the Jerx have lowered their sights a bit, after losing twenty-five ships in that disastrous attempted raid on Tau Ceti. They've decided to attack someplace so irrelevant that we might not even bother to reply.

There's basically NOTHING in Psi Ceti. We landed some people on the planet Moby, simply to validate our claim to the system... and the civvies have brought in more Infrastructure and more colonists, expanding the population... but there were no really useful mining sites in this system, so we just left the civilians to get on with it and make some money. There are a few civilian mines (owned by corporations, not by us) and a planet full of unemployed loafers. That's about it.

... oh, and we donated a full set of defensive turrets. Not sure why. But I guess it's going to see some action.

There are no Sabres in the system at all, because there is basically nothing there worth protecting.

Always better to defend the civvies if possible than not to. They are out tax base, after all. Plus, who knows. This ssytem might eventually buid up tot be decently profitable.

Can't wait until we're in the interstellar empire version of a pub trying to get them on the right side of the tracks by giving them a chance.

Tracks? Since when does pubs habe tracks?

 

[Wagonlitz]

which will do one point of damage at extreme range and ten points of damage at point blank range.

What determines how fast it tapers?
Like, is it linear, exponential, etc.?

It will probably be several hours, or even a few days, before the Rift will allow a second Jerx fleet through. The Rift goes inactive after every transit, for a period of time related to the size of the fleet that recently transited.

So a Jerx fleet that finds itself in a very hostile system would have no way of fleeing home until after a certain time had passed?

A pretty lame-ass Pirate raid! One ship...

Is it worth it to salvage the wreck of a single ship, or is it better to just leave it?
Wil civvies salvage wrecks eventually?

 

[blue emu]

What determines how fast it tapers?
Like, is it linear, exponential, etc.? - Linear.

So a Jerx fleet that finds itself in a very hostile system would have no way of fleeing home until after a certain time had passed? - Correct.

Is it worth it to salvage the wreck of a single ship, or is it better to just leave it? - We could salvage it. We aren't short of fuel.
Wil civvies salvage wrecks eventually? - No, AFAIK.

Begs teh question, what is it now. - 38% -

(As per usual I won't read replies until I catch up, whihc hopefully should be fast.)

Why spend research points on something we won't use, though? - It gives us the option of using it at any time. Flexibility.
It might not be much, but it'st still something.

So even if artmies are damaged, they won't have new gear supplied as replacement? - Yes, but old gear, at the old tech.

What was it those round space stations at the bottom corner or some systems mean? - Shipyards or Repair Yards. Almost always the latter.

Always better to defend the civvies if possible than not to. They are out tax base, after all. Plus, who knows. This ssytem might eventually buid up tot be decently profitable.

Tracks? Since when does pubs have tracks? - Back before air travel and super-highways, railways were far more important than they are now. Many towns had their slums district (where the poorest people lived) on the opposite side of the rail tracks from the better parts of town. So, the phrase "the wrong side of the tracks".

 

[Deleted user]

Tracks? Since when does pubs habe tracks?

It's a turn of phrase, it's not literal. I just meant we would be at the pub trying to talk them into doing good and helping people. Kinda like how many superheroes have or at one point had that one villain who is often easily defeated that they are trying to help live a better life.

 

[blue emu]

Four more months until the return-side of the Gate opens and our Tugs and Space Marines can come home.

We'll keep a Naval presence guarding them until then, of course.

In the meantime, I'll design some new Ground Units!... or perhaps WE'LL design some new ground units.

 

[RobbieAB]

Are there any ground unit options to serve as spotters for orbital bombardment?

 

[Wagonlitz]

I am sending a refueling station to Moby in Psi Ceti, just to simplify logistics. It will allow us to withdraw the Tanker.

I take it that was permanently it was stationed there, right?
Is there a reason we don't just drop refueling stations in any system we own?

the Tankers that we have kept on-station in that star system can now hand over their fuel to the planetary infrastructure and withdraw back to Sol.

Will that help the development of the planet that it suddenly gets lots of fuel?

Debating whether to send them a Shuttle Station... I think I will. I hate developing star systems that bring no particular benefit, but refueling facilities are of limited use if we can't also provide spare parts to any passing ships that need them.

What is it a shuttle station does?

We have improved our Stealth level to the same as the Pirates (90% stealthy), and have also gained the ability to build stealthy engines (-75% thermal signature).

What's teh maximum stalthy you can get? Can you approach 100% asymptotitally?

Keep it up, this stuff is thrilling.

Indeed. I love the details.

invading the Goons. I mean, a guaranteed rich planet *and* another alien species to enslave?

Is it really guaranteed that it's a rich planet?
Also, why was it those species turtle up on a planet? Oh right, it was a previous civ that regressed and forgot spaceflight, right?



" - I love laser gunships shining. Huge difference between this game and the original Aurora game. - I am also enjoying the Gunship revival. The meta used to be Base Strike - Carriers and PD. Now it's a toss-up. Jeune Ecole seems to be a strong contender."
What's Jeune Ecole?

 

[blue emu]

Are there any ground unit options to serve as spotters for orbital bombardment?

I was doing that, yes... but didn't notice any improvement.

---

First, you need to include at least one FO team (Forward Observer) in each unit you want capable of spotting for ships or artillery.

I include one in every combat unit. Here is a Space Marine Battalion - the base unit for building up Brigades and Divisions.

One HQ, three hundred Riflemen, dozens of Mortars, Machine Guns, etc... and a Forward Observer. You can have more than one if you wish, and each FO can call-in a different ship or artillery.

Put some ships in orbit on the "Provide Orbital Bombardment Support" mission, and they will then appear on the drop-down menu detailing the planet's defenses, and you can drag-and-drop to set up "You support this guy" relationships.

But I didn't notice any dramatic improvement in the odds. I didn't notice ANY.

Then again... the dust level was around 35,000. We were all fighting in the dark, in what was effectively a planet-wide smoke screen.

 

[blue emu]

I take it that was permanently it was stationed there, right? - Semi-permanently.
Is there a reason we don't just drop refueling stations in any system we own? - Building them uses minerals, money and time... and ties up the factories for a while. And the station is useless unless you leave (and maintain) a sizable stock of fuel in every system. But yes, ideally we would have one in every system.

Will that help the development of the planet that it suddenly gets lots of fuel? - No.

What is it a shuttle station does? - Allows you to give spare parts from your stockpile to ships that visit, and also speeds up loading and unloading of people and freight.

What's teh maximum stalthy you can get? Can you approach 100% asymptotitally? - Not sure. We're at 90%. The next tech (160,000 research points) is 93%.

Indeed. I love the details.

Is it really guaranteed that it's a rich planet? - No. But it will only take a year or so to terraform it to Class 0.
Also, why was it those species turtle up on a planet? Oh right, it was a previous civ that regressed and forgot spaceflight, right? - Yes.

" - I love laser gunships shining. Huge difference between this game and the original Aurora game. - I am also enjoying the Gunship revival. The meta used to be Base Strike - Carriers and PD. Now it's a toss-up. Jeune Ecole seems to be a strong contender."
What's Jeune Ecole? - Lots of small ships instead of fewer big ones. But I was joking when I said it, because the actual doctrine that we've been using (ie: out-range and out-shoot, use our high speed to choose the most favorable range, run away from anything too scary) is a Battle-Cruiser Doctrine. Jeune Ecole is more of a Convoy Interdiction Doctrine. Someone... RobbieAB, perhaps?... pointed that out in the thread.

 

[Wagonlitz]

The biggest laser that I can create that can fire EVERY impulse (every five seconds) would be one that does six points of damage. Because our Capacitor tech is 6.

Why does it necessarily need to fire every impulse?

Those Grinders are very handy, since a Tug can move the equivalent of 21 auto-mines in one operation.

And freighters can't drag 21 automines at the same time?

We have a full five-ship squadron of Freighters devoted to bringing the minerals home.

Is that for all systems, or just that one system?

Our Grinders can now orbitally mine any object up to 320 km diameter. This will add some new mining sites.

Couldn't those sites have been mined with normal mines previously, though?

Is it worth researching "Death Star" grade spinal lasers?

View attachment 1125654

I love the "Max Range 2.65 million km". LOL. Obviously, our Fire Control can't actually target things that far away.

I suppose it's only a thousand research points...

What does death star grade mean? Like, no way it can destroy planets.

Wagonlitz has researched another tech... he's 73 years old, but refuses to retire. Just completed "Maintenance Support per Facility 3,200".

Woo!
What does maintenance support per facility 3200 entail?

Laser battleships sound like they could be a real thing. Though stealthyness also has it's upsides, and that it won't be.

Nw that sounds super cool. I love the idea of laser battleships.
It'd essentially be star destroyers.

I remember some discussion on whether the NPR can generate Star Swarm and the like - as it turns out, no, it can't. Look at these settings in the middle. The only checkbox that's ticked for what the NPR can generate is "Precursors".

Of course we *have* generated raiders, and AFAIK there's no real reason why the NPR can't be raided by them, too, just like we are.

I wonder what the allow NPRs to generate aether rifts does.
Like, whether they can greate and use rifts if it's clicked.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Classification as a FAC (which requires < 1000 tons) helps a lot.

Why does merely classifying it as FAC matter?
Also, what does FAC stand for?

Of course those settings can also be changed to raise the odds, if we start feeling bored.

You can change the settings mid game?

Obviously. It has to be one of those two options.

Couldn't it be multiple NPRs fighting?
Or encountering rakkhas?

We'll just build a Deep Space Naval base directly on top of the only important mineral deposit in the star system.

Didn't the deep space base stay static and hence not follow asteroids or comets around?

This is counterbalanced by the fact that turrets require traversing gear, which adds displacement.

Will the gears take up as much space as the difference between turrets and casemate?


"he only things that affect the time it takes to get there are the number of jumps, the scale of the star systems (Alpha Centauri is HUGE, Tau Ceti is small) and the arrangement of jump points within the star system."
Is Alpha Centauri so huge it can be worth it to go the ring route around to get form Sol to Luytens?
Also, speaking of, is it then worth it to build jump points between Xi Bootis and Psi Ceti? Assuming you haven't already.

 

[blue emu]

Why does it necessarily need to fire every impulse? - It's supposed to be a DP (Dual Purpose) gun. That means "a gun capable of both point defense work and anti-ship work". It can't do point defense work properly unless it can fire EVERY impulse. Missiles only have one hit point each. It doesn't matter what you hit them with, as long as you hit them. So a gun that does one point of damage and fires every impulse is actually BETTER for point defense work than a gun that does twenty damage but fires every second impulse. For anti-ship work you need long range, high damage and a reasonable rate-of-fire. For point defense work you MUST have rate-of-fire.

And freighters can't drag 21 automines at the same time? - That would take twenty-one freighters. This takes only one Tug.

Is that for all systems, or just that one system? - For the major mineral trade routes.

Couldn't those sites have been mined with normal mines previously, though? - Normal mines require millions of pop to operate (50,000 each), which is not what you would expect to find on a small body 300-odd km in diameter. Auto-mines? Possible of course but they cost twice as much Corundium each as a Grinder's mining module.

What does death star grade mean? Like, no way it can destroy planets. - Just hyperbole.

Woo!
What does maintenance support per facility 3200 entail? - Each facility raises our local space ship support cap by 3,200 tons.

Nw that sounds super cool. I love the idea of laser battleships. - This seems to be a Battle-Cruiser type game so far.
It'd essentially be star destroyers.

I wonder what the allow NPRs to generate aether rifts does. - Pretty sure only Raiders can use Rifts.
Like, whether they can greate and use rifts if it's clicked.

Why does merely classifying it as FAC matter? - Randakar is talking about previous versions of Aurora in that quote, not about the C# Aurora 2.5 that we're playing. Back in the old days there were specific types of high-performance engines that were available only to FACs, or only to Fighters.
Also, what does FAC stand for? - Fast Attack Craft. Sort of like a World War II Torpedo Boat or fast Gunboat. In previous game versions, FAC had to be 1,000 tons or less. HAD to. In the current game version, engines are designed entirely differently and the term "FAC" now describes a role instead of a tonnage class.

You can change the settings mid game? - Some of them, yes. Others, no.

Couldn't it be multiple NPRs fighting? - Yes.
Or encountering rakkhas? - Yes. Or Precursors.

Didn't the deep space base stay static and hence not follow asteroids or comets around? - Correct. This is not really a DSP. It's a base, on a comet.

Will the gears take up as much space as the difference between turrets and casemate? - Depends. The actual tonnage saved by stacking four guns in a turret (-30%) depends on how big the guns are... obviously 30% of four huge guns is a much bigger number than 30% of four small guns. But the tonnage of the traversing gear depends only on the tracking speed desired. So huge guns that track enemy ships will get a big tonnage benefit from stacking four big guns in a turret, and will require little traversing gear because their targets move at only moderate speed. On the other hand, if this is a fast ship then no turret should be required anyway, to track enemy ships. Point defense will always come up short in the math (small guns means only a small benefit from stacking them, and high speed enemy missile targets require lots of traversing gear) but turrets are just the only way to get the tracking speed you need to hit missiles reliably.


"he only things that affect the time it takes to get there are the number of jumps, the scale of the star systems (Alpha Centauri is HUGE, Tau Ceti is small) and the arrangement of jump points within the star system."
Is Alpha Centauri so huge it can be worth it to go the ring route around to get form Sol to Luytens? - Nice idea, but that would mean seven jumps instead of two. I'm almost sure that the direct route through Alpha Centauro is quicker. Nice idea, though.
Also, speaking of, is it then worth it to build jump points between Xi Bootis and Psi Ceti? Assuming you haven't already. - I have, yes.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Meson Armor Retardation

Whatr's that?
And what's a meson cannon?
Does it fire mesons or something?

souped-up engine

What's a souped up engine?

Next time I have the game open, I'll test it by (pretending to) delete the engine, and see what the Lasers REALLY cost to repair.

Won't there be other stuff in there that could swallow spare parts?

 

[Flockingbird]

What's a souped up engine?

Definition of SOUPED-UP

enhanced or increased in appeal, power, performance, or intensity; also : elaborate, embellished… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

enhanced or increased in appeal, power, performance, or intensity
also : ELABORATE, EMBELLISHED

 

[blue emu]

Whatr's that?
And what's a meson cannon?
Does it fire mesons or something? - Yes. Armor is partly transparent to Mesons; you don't need to punch through his armor before you start scoring internal hits. The higher your tech level, the easier it is to shoot right through his armor. Meson Cannons are very short ranged, though. Again, higher tech means longer range.

What's a souped up engine? - A very powerful engine. Lots of thrust per ton of engine. They burn fuel like a fire in a refinery, though.

Won't there be other stuff in there that could swallow spare parts? - Yes but nothing that compares to those two components. An AWACS FAC would have a RADAR that could burn lots of repair parts if it malfunctioned... but those gunships have tiny civilian grade sensors. Literally.

 

[Blaaat]

View attachment 1136751

So decontamination vehicles are worth it if you have lots of it (at least 500 vehicles total I guess for another 10%) and/or radiation levels are high. Ideally for next time we want to have these grounds unit available and ready to land the moment we've conquered the nuked planet. The research and build investment might be worth it for the current nuked planet if it has some juicy resources, I guess we have to send a survey vessels to find out?

 

[randakar]

I'm guessing researching ground units that can actually take on these clowns would help not ruin the planet in the first place ;-)

 

[Wagonlitz]

Another possibility is to replace the 30cm secondary armament with a quick-firing (5 second cycle time) Dual-Purpose secondary armament that has both PD and anti-ship capability. Less damage per hit (only 15cm instead of 30cm) but fires every five seconds and shoots at both ships and missiles.

PD requires being able to shoot every impulse? Or would something being able to track and shoot at missiles, even if not every impulse, also be PD?

Those designs that I've been showing you are based on Prototypes, and they must be replaced by actual components before we can retool a shipyard for the design.

Does it cost anything to get the prototypes for whne you make up these designs?

We now have more than three-and-a-half billion liters of space fuel refined and stockpiled at Earth... so our campaign to extract space fuel from gas giants seems to be going well. Earth's fuel refineries have been shut down for decades.

Is there still sorium on Earth and it's just left there for emergency, or is Earth fully depleted?
Also, is thre a limit to how much fuel we can store? And is it better to store sorium or fuel, once you have a lot of fuel?

Our Earth-based supply of spare parts is also increasing, but much more slowly... even though all the old maintenance facilities have been brought back from "cold storage" on Luna and reactivated.

Why was it going slower? Needing to wait for production efficiency to get back up?

The approaching Fat Man tug is towing an Ark module loaded with 200,000 colonists. That will form the core of the Naval base, offering shore leave to visiting ships and providing a work-force for the Naval base.

I thoguht that all people on arks had ot work in life support and hence oculdn't help with anything else, or was that older designs of teh ark?

One reason that Comet Yod is a good spot for our Naval base... aside from the minerals... is that its orbit regularly carries it past the P Eridani jump point, and that's the NEXT place we're planning to set up a base.

How often does it reach that JP?

Part of my attempt to rationalize the increasingly complex imperial administration has been to create a "Colonial Administration" branch of government, with different departments for different star systems.

View attachment 1126579

Grouping the fleets by home star system also tends to group them by purpose or by responsibility.

What's CDRE and CDR? I take it one of them is commander, but what is the other. And why is tehre a commander in charge of some systeme, but a captain for others?
How was it you could see on the map whether the administrator on earth can handle a planet or not? Like, wasn't there a limit, after which you need to sector?

Also, are we putting beacons in any system we've discovered, to stake a claim?

The General class and the Quality class are now out of Prototype... all necessary components have been researched, and shipyard production can begin as soon as the yards have retooled.

---

General class Gunship 5,995 tons 131 Crew 2,318.2 BP TCS 120 TH 302 EM 0
10508 km/s Armour 5-29 Shields 0-0 HTK 37 Sensors 8/14/0/0 DCR 2-3 PPV 29.75
Maint Life 2.64 Years MSP 3,808 AFR 144% IFR 2.0% 1YR 772 5YR 11,586 Max Repair 1260 MSP
Commander Control Rating 1 BRG
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months Morale Check Required

Magnetic Fusion Drive EP1260.00 PWR-150 HS-42 (1) Power 1260 Fuel Use 53.79% Signature 302.40 Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 535,000 Litres Range 29.9 billion km (32 days at full power)

45.0cm C6 Far Ultraviolet Laser 2004 (1) Range 320,000km TS: 10,508 km/s Power 53-6 RM 50,000 km ROF 45
Twin 15.0cm C6 Far Ultraviolet Laser RoF 5 2000 Turret (1x2) Range 300,000km TS: 25000 km/s Power 12-12 RM 50,000 km ROF 5
1998 Beam Fire Control R320-TS10000 (SW) (1) Max Range: 320,000 km TS: 10,000 km/s ECCM-1 97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
1998 PD Beam Fire Control R160-TS20000 (1) Max Range: 160,000 km TS: 20,000 km/s ECCM-1 94 88 81 75 69 62 56 50 44 38
Tokamak Fusion Reactor R19 (1) Total Power Output 18.5 Exp 5%

1992 CIV PD Sensor AS11-R1 (1) GPS 28 Range 11.2m km MCR 1m km Resolution 1
1992 CIV Sensor AS51-R100 (1) GPS 2800 Range 51.8m km Resolution 100
1993 EM Sensor EM1.0-14.0 (1) Sensitivity 14 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 29.6m km
Thermal Sensor TH1.0-8.0 1969 (1) Sensitivity 8 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 22.4m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Warship for auto-assignment purposes

---

Quality class Light Cruiser 5,995 tons 99 Crew 2,054.2 BP TCS 120 TH 302 EM 0
10508 km/s Armour 6-29 Shields 0-0 HTK 37 Sensors 8/14/0/0 DCR 2-3 PPV 33.7
Maint Life 2.52 Years MSP 3,828 AFR 144% IFR 2.0% 1YR 840 5YR 12,607 Max Repair 1260 MSP
Commander Control Rating 1 BRG
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months Morale Check Required

Magnetic Fusion Drive EP1260.00 PWR-150 HS-42 (1) Power 1260 Fuel Use 53.79% Signature 302.40 Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 440,000 Litres Range 24.6 billion km (27 days at full power)

Quad Gauss Cannon R400-100 2001 Turret (1x16) Range 40,000km TS: 25000 km/s Power 0-0 RM 40,000 km ROF 5
1998 PD Beam Fire Control R160-TS20000 (1) Max Range: 160,000 km TS: 20,000 km/s ECCM-1 94 88 81 75 69 62 56 50 44 38

1992 CIV PD Sensor AS11-R1 (1) GPS 28 Range 11.2m km MCR 1m km Resolution 1
1992 CIV Sensor AS51-R100 (1) GPS 2800 Range 51.8m km Resolution 100
1993 EM Sensor EM1.0-14.0 (1) Sensitivity 14 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 29.6m km
Thermal Sensor TH1.0-8.0 1969 (1) Sensitivity 8 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 22.4m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Warship for auto-assignment purposes

Was it deliberate or by chance they ended up exactly the same weight ahdn hence exactly the same speed?

 

[Wagonlitz]

Bureaucracy indeed. I'm just trying to keep it all straight. Stuff that STAYS in a particular star system (Orbital Naval Bases, Orbital Grinders, Orbital Refineries, DSP patrol bases, Sabre squadrons, etc) all gets tossed into those folders.

I take it that when griders, refineries, etc. are moved elswhere you move them to the other folder, right?

Speakinf of, have we moved refineries a lot, or are we still getting fuel from the same sources? E.g. is Jupiter still giving fuel? And how is it looking compared to when we started? As in, how much is left and how much was there initially and at what acc compared to initially.

By November of this game year, we should be able to design a scout that is too fast for the Galapagonians to catch with a gunship, too small (with its -90% cloaking device) to target with a missile fire control, and hopefully too dim (with its -75% thermal suppressors) to target with Infra-Red seekers.

Fighters and maybe FACs can catch it and kill it. But they might not have the sensors to SEE our scout if it detects them, goes stealthy and runs off.

Missiles can't target too small targets? I thoguht they could hit basically anything.

Only 2,662 tons, and with a 90% cloaking device the RADAR signature is reduced to only 267 tons... the same as a Fighter. Carries large passive sensors.

I thoguht you said that the minimum size tech 8 meant a minimum size of 400 tonnes.

Also, scouts, are those the same as we use for exploring too, or are teh explorers different?