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The inclusion of a 'MAcdonald White Paper Event" would be excellent. (It was a white paper put through the British parlaiment on the issue of Palestine, calling for a single arab majority state (it failed), but the possibilities should be:
a)Create Palestine (+ a bucket load of dissent as it was unpopular)
b)Creat Two Seperate States (slightly less dissent)
c)The white paper fails (nothing changes)
 
Sir Humphrey said:
The inclusion of a 'MAcdonald White Paper Event" would be excellent. (It was a white paper put through the British parlaiment on the issue of Palestine, calling for a single arab majority state (it failed), but the possibilities should be:
a)Create Palestine (+ a bucket load of dissent as it was unpopular)
b)Creat Two Seperate States (slightly less dissent)
c)The white paper fails (nothing changes)

There was work being done on this IIRC. A whole series of things, covering the tit for tat attacks between the Zionist elements and Arab nationalists, to the British policy, to Axis efforts in the region, to post war set ups.
 
Oh, thats even better. :)
 
Maybe an event for Netherlands would be nice to make the Chief of Staff historical correct. In february 1940 the Chief of Staff Reijnders resigned because of lack of support. The minister of Defense and cabinet didnt support his plans, and he was succeeded by Winkelman. The Winkelman did change somethings, but i dont know if this can be reflected in an event. But the event could simply be the option to change Reijnders to Winkelman, a simple event.
 
Oranje Verzet said:
Maybe an event for Netherlands would be nice to make the Chief of Staff historical correct. In february 1940 the Chief of Staff Reijnders resigned because of lack of support. The minister of Defense and cabinet didnt support his plans, and he was succeeded by Winkelman. The Winkelman did change somethings, but i dont know if this can be reflected in an event. But the event could simply be the option to change Reijnders to Winkelman, a simple event.


Major ministerial changes like this are very good, and should be added in. There are several similar events already in vanilla, and we'll be expanding these to include more nations.

If anyone has such a change, please post the specifics of it (date, situation, who gets canned, who gets the job, etc).
 
Oh, on minister changes, for the sake of researchers everywhere, get rid of that idiot 'Owen Boyd' the UK Air Chief. He was nothing of the sort, and it should corectly be Sir Edward Ellington. Boyd was never anywhere near Chief of the Air Staff.
 
Sir Humphrey said:
Oh, on minister changes, for the sake of researchers everywhere, get rid of that idiot 'Owen Boyd' the UK Air Chief. He was nothing of the sort, and it should corectly be Sir Edward Ellington. Boyd was never anywhere near Chief of the Air Staff.

Take it up with Birch23 for vanilla. ;)
Anyother such changes we can certainly make for CORE.
 
Sir Humphrey said:
The inclusion of a 'MAcdonald White Paper Event" would be excellent. (It was a white paper put through the British parlaiment on the issue of Palestine, calling for a single arab majority state (it failed), but the possibilities should be:
a)Create Palestine (+ a bucket load of dissent as it was unpopular)
b)Creat Two Seperate States (slightly less dissent)
c)The white paper fails (nothing changes)

I have started researching and jotting notes for a string of events starting with the 1936 riots and working through the post-war period. Unfortunately, it is on the back burner until after the release of 0.1. Once that is finished, I will start working on events again.

You can look forward to a string of events for the 1936 London Naval Conference and the results, maybe a string of events for the refugee conference which happened in the late 1930s (if it can be done without violating the rules ;) ), and I have rough notes for minor nations naval building programs where they would be able to supplement their navies through construction in more advanced nations. MDow
 
That sounds all so cool.
 
I've finished reading my book. 8)

Should there event be an event for the incompetent orders of the German and Soviet high commands? German generals were forced into mistakes by Hitler, and the same can also be said about the Soviets and Stalin.

UK probably should get some "desperate mobilization" event if the Axis get holds any land on the British Isles.

There were several treaties that were supposed to control Germany up to 1938 or so, by the Soviets and the Allies. I wonder if (and perhaps this would be highly unfair), if German aggression might be met with both a soviet and an allied response. In particular, an attack against poland (an early attack) is often ignored by both.

Then there is the "New World Order ideas"
 
First let me say that I think there should be at least some unit diff. in HOI2. Screw the doctrines, Germany used diff. doctrine AND diff. units as SU or allies.

To get to the point...

I've been tinkering with this idea for weeks now (ever since I tried to make some changes to HSR)and it came to me, that unit diff. are in fact possibble with slightly changed unit structure.

To elaborate...In HOI2 all units have the same statistics (medium tanks are the same for SU, Germany and UK, the same goes for infrantry, mot. inf., mech. inf,...) BUT the same doesn't apply to brigades. You can actually have country specific brigades with different statistics (bonuses). So we could achieve unit diff. with attaching country specific brigades to units. How would things look like?
Well you would research, say, prewar1936/basic1939/advanced1941/improved1943... armour division, these would represent the frame of an armoured div. (logistic personel, organization, support vehichles, staff,...). They would replace tanks research and would be the same for every nation. BUT in addition you would need to research tanks too (similar as you now research SP AT) but they would take the form of brigades (they wouldn't be actuall brigades, we would only clasiffy them as such for game purposes). These tanks would then be attached to divisons mentioned above. So we would get, say basic1939 armour divisons to which we would attach(equip with) basic light tanks - PZII in case of Germany or with T26 in case of SU, basic medium tanks, prewar tanks,..., ALL with country SPECIFIC stats. So, although the frame (basic divison) would be the same for every country, the tanks in them wouldn't be (because they would be clasiffied/represented as diff. brigades). In that case we would finally get different units for different countries. In addition, in that way OOB would be far more realistic (1941 SU with a lot of basic and improved armoured divs. but with 1936 and 1939 tanks attached, 1936 Germany with basic1939 division frame but with 1936 tanks,...), more interesting (mix of diff. units even for the same country) and easier to represent.

The same could be applied to mech. inf. but in this case new brigades would've oppened only when you would researched the appropriate SP AT and SP Art. levels. (kind of like HD in HSR). So only when improved SP AT AND SP Art. would be reserached you would gain acces to improved mech. brigade.

I hope I made myself clear. I'll probably try these concept myself...What do you think?
 
Spricar said:
First let me say that I think there should be at least some unit diff. in HOI2. Screw the doctrines, Germany used diff. doctrine AND diff. units as SU or allies.

OK


To get to the point...

I've been tinkering with this idea for weeks now (ever since I tried to make some changes to HSR)and it came to me, that unit diff. are in fact possibble with slightly changed unit structure.

To elaborate...In HOI2 all units have the same statistics (medium tanks are the same for SU, Germany and UK, the same goes for infrantry, mot. inf., mech. inf,...) BUT the same doesn't apply to brigades. You can actually have country specific brigades with different statistics (bonuses). So we could achieve unit diff. with attaching country specific brigades to units. How would things look like...

I hope I made myself clear. I'll probably try these concept myself...What do you think?

I wan't aware that you could have country specific brigades. :confused: AFAIK, you can only have 10 brigade models as well which severly limits our options. If you can get it work let us know and we might be able to incorperate your ideas into a future release. MDow
 
I think it is technically possible to have more than 10 brigades, just as it is possible to have more than 10 division models, but PI only supports (as in guarantees it'll work) 10 so that's what we do.

Myself I don't think nation-specific brigades have any room in CORE (this is without knowing exactly how McNaughton have done things - I recall reading something about two or so options for certain brigades), but perhaps more in line with what Stony Road are doing (I believe they use 10+ brigade models). There is enough differentiation through doctrines (which are not just 'doctrines' despite their name) not to warrant their inclusion. Nation-specific anything also goes against the generalized nature of HoI2 (in contrast to HoI1), something we're also honoring.
 
Blue Max said:
I've finished reading my book. 8)

See, the boy can be taught!

Blue Max said:
Should there event be an event for the incompetent orders of the German and Soviet high commands? German generals were forced into mistakes by Hitler, and the same can also be said about the Soviets and Stalin.

We've already discussed this a bit amongst ourselves. IMO, no we shouldn't script this at all. It's a game play issue to my mind. Part of the reason for playing the game is NOT to repeat those same mistakes. In theory, a person playing Germany is acting as AH in game. Same for the USSR and Stalin. I believe this forces too much on a player's actions.

Blue Max said:
UK probably should get some "desperate mobilization" event if the Axis get holds any land on the British Isles.

McNaughton I believe has this well in hand with a new set up with Territorial units, and the new mobilization events that will eventually appear.


Blue Max said:
There were several treaties that were supposed to control Germany up to 1938 or so, by the Soviets and the Allies. I wonder if (and perhaps this would be highly unfair), if German aggression might be met with both a soviet and an allied response. In particular, an attack against poland (an early attack) is often ignored by both.

This is probably worth looking into. An early German attack on Poland, or who ever, prior to 1938 should ellicit a response from either the Allies or the USSR, if not both.

Blue Max said:
Then there is the "New World Order ideas"


Bring 'em on!
 
Bring 'em on![/QUOTE]

One of the problems about plans for the "Post War" period was that many of them they were never fully implemented. Sharing the world with another alliance creates restrictions on what or would not ever happen, let alone a three power world. I'll use a little abbreivation system (3A for Three alliances, 2A for two, and 1A for just one.) If something would be done with all three alliances left in the world, it would also be done with two or one, etc.

The Axis Powers:
--National Socialism of the Church-- A big plan of the Nazis was the Nazification of the Christian Church. I'm unsure of the ramifications of this (I'm an Atheist myself), but should at least be a Flavor. 1A
--Germanisurung. The Long Term aim (at least according to Hitler), of the war in the East was to create a "living space" for the German People. Of course, the stresses of war prevented this from really happening during the lifetime of the German Reich, but when those stresses are over, Poland could well become "Germany II". THis would mean that Germany starts making national provinces out of Polish and Russian Territory, with the Crimea as a very likely new national territory. 2A
--Showdown with Japan. Germany planned all along to destroy the Japanese after wasting the Allies and the Commintern. This would be the "Afterwar" to the second world war, and by this time, the German Navy would be ready to challenge the Japanese. 1A.
--Collapse of Free French. If the Allies and the Germans really came to peace, one factor would the recognition of the Vichy Government. This, in turn, would defeat the Free French (and any other Exile governments). Free French goes to Vichy French. 3A
--Romania and Finland get a very favorable border at the expense of the Soviets. 3A.
--Eventually, Africa and South America are going to wind up as German "Colonies" of sorts. Whateve form they take is unknown to me. 3A
--Victory events for defeating enemies. 3A
--Germany could also ruthlessly demand territory from its "allies", like Bolzano from Italy and all of Switzerland. 3A

Commintern Events
--Destabization and Overthrow of France, Czechloslovkia, Austria and Italy. Czechloslovkia was overthrown by the Soviets and the others could well have had the same fate. 2A
--Intervene in the Chinese Civil War 3A. Obvious reasons with obvious gains involved.
--The Fate of the Germans. If Stalin got to call the shots, there would never be another Germany. At a minimum, it would be divided into smaller countries. Historically, however, the Red Army and the abused peoples of Eastern Europe actually drove back the German people into a smaller area. There might be no reason to stop at the Oder--Berlin could well become occupied by Poles if the Soviets decide that's in their best interests. This would dramatically change the National and Occupied territories of Eastern Europe. 3A, but the magnitude would depend on who else was around to mitigate these actions.
--"Indoctrination" of military personnel. In Poland, 1940, the Soviets attempted to indoctrinate the Poles and force them to serve in the Soviet Ranks. In RL, the Soviets got some of the Balkan Countries to switch sides into the Commintern. Couldn't this be extended to Germany and anywhere else the Red Army has triumphed? 3A
--More Member States to the USSR. While Eastern Europe was puppeted by the Soviets, this was mostly as a sop to the West, which wanted free nations in Eastern Europe. Shouldn't the Soviets have the ability to ignore those concerns and create things like a Romanian SSR, Poland SSR, etc, and gain national territories in Eastern Europe? 3A
--Removal of the Commisar system. After the Red Army won a war against the Wehrmacht, Stalin removed the commisar system from the Red Army, this would increase the fighting quality of the Red Army (at least negate the penalty, if any, they have from political control over army)3A
--Dealing with Traitors. Many Soviet soldiers defected to the Germans in the early years of the Great Patriotic War. There should a choice for mercy or vengance for the Russians.
--Soviets grab German weapon designs (Like the V2 Rocket, and more). 3A.
--Miscellanous Victory Events. 3A.

Allies Events
--Create democracies all over the world after the war(s) are over. 3A
--Marshall Plan in Europe (+ICs for money) 3A, if Western Europe is democratic.
--Create a single, unifed puppet Germany.3A
--Build the United Nations. 3A
--Guns to Butter Drive. If the Allies are the Only alliance left standing, they should go immediately drop back into dove lobby and peacetime IC penalties.1A
--Postwar Economic Boom. This is historical, the postwar years had some of the strongest, most prolonged economic growth in recent history. The Allies should be gaining ICs at a rate of 5% a year (Show some serious economic growth). I don't know how much HOI2 Factors in the Depression in their game, but the emergence from the depression into the long economic boom should provide, at a minimum, a considerable IC boost.3A
--Kennan's Containment doctrine. 3A--the USA will aggressively oppose Red expansion. There would be a similar idea against the Axis powers if they somehow survived as well.
--Collaborators Fired--Many collaborators would be sacked for good, among them Leopold III of Belgium and Petain and Darlan of Vichy. 3A
--UK decides to dismantle the empire.2A
--Three-power (Or Two-Power) Agreement at the end of the wars, creating a sphere of influence for the allies, much like the others have.
--Eastern Europe/Germany Chooses the Allies--If the Allies have done better than the Soviets in the War, nations like Poland would easily side with the Allies over the Soviets.2A
--Help the Nationalists in China?-2A.

I have much more to talk about, but you knew that already,
 
I think if Germany confiscated colonial holdings in the far east, there would eventually be a showdown with Japan.
 
A problem with the post war allied events, only really america benifited out of the post war reconstruction, in alot of cases Britain was totally bankrupt, and France and the continent destroyed alot by war.