Talking Turkey: Alternate History from 1936

[TheButterflyComposer]

Cagliari, Sardinia. Which is now under French occupation, of course.

Oh, they managed to hold it? Wow, Italy is getting the stuffing kicked out of it by France and this is before we get involved in the east. Perhaps we can make them fold quickly....oh hell, that means France has to stay alive long enough for it to matter. How did we all miss that? Yeah we can take Italy with our puppets help in a slow campaign but if France keeps distracting them like this, we only have to break through their front lines and then Italy's has a two front war just like Germany. Theee, if we count North Africa which is being cleansed by the British. Maybe they should land in Sicily if we pull that off.

Huh. Now I sort of want France to stay alive not so we can win the war easier but so turkey can enrich herself quicker.

“Just one more thing, Prime Minister. Perhaps we owe Kaya an apology,” says Ögel. Kaya looks calmed, though nonplussed for a moment. It doesn't last. “You know, reflecting on this recent episode, I can’t help but think the pressure of events and keeping track of all his domestic responsibilities as well as the international activities of S.I.T.H. is perhaps a little too unfair on our hard-working Interior Minister. It is our fault he has failed so abjectly in this way.” He looks over at Kaya with theatrically faux sympathy and concern. Kaya’s face begins to burn a bright red as his anger rises. “Indeed, it can’t be good for his apoplexy.” Kaya’s face proves the point more as every second passes; even more so when he starts to make alarming choking sounds.

Wow. That's horrifically direct even for a private cabinet meeting. Did the president give him the go ahead for that ahead of time?

“Yes,” continues Ögel, now enjoying himself. “I think this must have been what led to Kaya’s misjudgement in this matter and his inability to properly control his overseas agents. While I think of it, that is my primary area of expertise, after all. And I have today been left with far less to do than before, and many months before we are likely to have any conventional foreign intelligence action for me to supervise. I feel I could be contributing more.”

Everyone in the room slowly turned paler as the man continued speaking, a few darting their eyes towards the door. One eyed the window.

Ögel turns once more to Kaya, with a stagily solicitous look on his face. “I think the least I can do, Sükrü Kaya, in return for all the support you have given me, is to lighten your heavy load a little. Let me ease your burden. International espionage is my field, after all.” He turns back to face the head of the Cabinet table. “My President, Prime Minister; don’t you think it may be wisest to move S.I.T.H. to the full control of the Intelligence Bureau and make it a purely overseas body, now that we are at war?

He saw no problem with this. it would be a great coup for him and a slap in the face of those fools in the army. Superstition twerps. They actually believed S.I.T.H. propaganda. Not that it wasn't a magnificent wheeze, convincing the whole world their spymaster was actually a demon but really, in this day and age...

Why was everyone looking at him in horror?
Why was the president's face so white. Surely he didn't...

It doesn’t seem to make much sense having them serve two masters.

The entire room sucked in their breath. There was a pause. Then another. A full minute went by with no thunderbolt striking Ögel. There was no chill or mist descending. It was even sunny outside.

Ögel began to grin in amusement.

“Yes, Sükrü Ali, I believe you are right. From today, you will take sole managing control over S.I.T.H. operations, which will be devoted entirely to aiding our foreign war effort. We will keep our focus on Italy and revenge: first on the Tattaglias, then on the Fascist Government itself. In time, you may be able to build the conventional spy network to the point we can use it in Italy – perhaps more for future subversion and sabotage than for industrial espionage, which isn’t so important now we have access to Soviet military technology. Make it careful and slow – they must really suffer when the blow finally falls. I would have them receive my earnest regards, with interest paid on what they have done to us.”

The room began to clear. Many of the men were rather confused and rather afraid of why that might be. Hence when the room began to clear, it cleared quickly. Ögel nodded at the president as he left. He blinked, and Kelebek was in the vacated president's chair.

"So...what's this I hear about you being S.I.T.H. Master, Ögel?"

 

[Bullfilter]

The room began to clear. Many of the men were rather confused and rather afraid of why that might be. Hence when the room began to clear, it cleared quickly. Ögel nodded at the president as he left. He blinked, and Kelebek was in the vacated president's chair.

"So...what's this I hear about you being S.I.T.H. Master, Ögel?"

Will address the in-game comments later, but just wanted to thank Lord Kelebek for another of his amusing (for the reader, not the recipient) interventions. Had a feeling he might put in an ‘appearance’ (so to speak)! I was careful to say Ogel was being given ‘managing control’ of S.I.T.H. - though perhaps the earlier ‘serving two masters’ comment attracted the Red Butterfly’s curiosity. Which one never wants to do.

From what I’ve seen, heard and read of politics, the Cabinet meeting was quite mild. I was of course channeling a bit of ‘Yes Prime Minister’ with the ‘lighten your load’ offer - a pretty low blow, I know. But the Turkish Cabinet table here is for the big boys only (no female options present themselves, alas). It was almost as brutal as the average Cat Fanciers’ Club Annual General Meeting!

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Will address the in-game comments later, but just wanted to thank Lord Kelebek for another of his amusing (for the reader, not the recipient) interventions. Had a feeling he might put in an ‘appearance’ (so to speak)! I was careful to say Ogel was being given ‘managing control’ of S.I.T.H. - though perhaps the earlier ‘serving two masters’ comment attracted the Red Butterfly’s curiosity. Which one never wants to do.

From what I’ve seen, heard and read of politics, the Cabinet meeting was quite mild. I was of course channeling a bit of ‘Yes Prime Minister’ with the ‘lighten your load’ offer - a pretty low blow, I know. But the Turkish Cabinet table here is for the big boys only (no female options present themselves, alas). It was almost as brutal as the average Cat Fanciers’ Club Annual General Meeting!

I was whistling when the guy had the balls to say that. He's been helping spew the Demon of Istanbul/Dark Kelebek stuff across the world for years now and then he goes and does something like this without asking S.I.T.H. or the president first? Either he's so ignorant of our operations that he doesn't realise how nasty we really are (in which case, him being in charge made our jobs easier because we can keep him in the dark about what we're doing) or he's so stupid that he takes in all the reports and concludes it's all propaganda, including what we do to captured spies and the 'official' story of what we didn't to the last interior minister! In either case, he shows qualities that S.I.T.H. despise: outrageous incompetence or utterly oblivious, and in either case sheer greed and self-interest at the expense of the nation. I imagine Kelebek as a character that's rather hard to displease and annoy but I have to applaud his concerted effort.

Maybe I'll feed him to the Iranians at the end of the war. Or drop him off in the middle of France, naked. And to be fair to Ögel, I did end it before anything remotely supernatural happened. He could be right about them not being demons. He just forgot that I found they are normal humans, that makes them somewhat more terrifying in some respects.

It was a real dressing down considering how many of the people present are civil servants in the classical sense, not politicians. See whenever two permenant secrateries get into a fight in Yes Minister for reference. For the time period, pulling that completely unexpectedly with the president and prime minister in the room and in front of the entire cabinet as well...ouch.

 

[Bullfilter]

I was whistling when the guy had the balls to say that. He's been helping spew the Demon of Istanbul/Dark Kelebek stuff across the world for years now and then he goes and does something like this without asking S.I.T.H. or the president first? Either he's so ignorant of our operations that he doesn't realise how nasty we really are (in which case, him being in charge made our jobs easier because we can keep him in the dark about what we're doing) or he's so stupid that he takes in all the reports and concludes it's all propaganda, including what we do to captured spies and the 'official' story of what we didn't to the last interior minister! In either case, he shows qualities that S.I.T.H. despise: outrageous incompetence or utterly oblivious, and in either case sheer greed and self-interest at the expense of the nation. I imagine Kelebek as a character that's rather hard to displease and annoy but I have to applaud his concerted effort.

Maybe I'll feed him to the Iranians at the end of the war. Or drop him off in the middle of France, naked. And to be fair to Ögel, I did end it before anything remotely supernatural happened. He could be right about them not being demons. He just forgot that I found they are normal humans, that makes them somewhat more terrifying in some respects.

It was a real dressing down considering how many of the people present are civil servants in the classical sense, not politicians. See whenever two permenant secrateries get into a fight in Yes Minister for reference. For the time period, pulling that completely unexpectedly with the president and prime minister in the room and in front of the entire cabinet as well...ouch.

Yes, avid readers will have known that Kaya and Ogel have long despised each other. In this specific case, Kaya started it with his deliberate takedown of Ogel’s grand espionage plan - not only did he put the kybosh on the expansion plan, but stuck the knife in so hard Ogel had his whole operation reduced to a vestige, with basically no role left at all, while Kaya retained all his domestic powers.

First, Ogel saw that Inonu and Bayar did nothing to moderate Kaya’s attack on him. So it seemed like ‘open season’ at that point.

Second, he decided to apply the ‘cold revenge’ principle to Kaya himself. Though combined with the same ‘red mist’ that obscures Ogel’s vision when his legendary cool facade finally cracks (see what happened in his Apotheosis in Chapter 27). He has played for high stakes before and sees Kaya pretty much trashing his life’s work in a humiliating play in front of his colleagues.

Third, knowing that dogs are allowed to eat each other in this Government so long as a solid image is maintained in public, he decides to take his chance when Kaya presents it. Unlike Kaya’s well-planned strike, this is spontaneous but no less devastating.

Ogel is emboldened when Aras offers him support and the leadership does not intervene - we can assume he reads the body language around the table and sees a green light to escalate. Helped by the fact everyone else hates and fears Kaya almost as much as he does. Even Inonu would not want his Interior Minister getting too much power - and the entire UGNR internal security apparatus, the secret police plus S.I.T.H. certainly seems like too much!

As Ogel keeps building up and is allowed to get away with it, he decides to go all-in. And his request is actually reasonable, in terms of remits and dispersal of power. Inonu is happy enough to see the ship right itself in this way.

And in the main ATL universe of TT, Kelebek’s physical manifestation (as opposed to his supernatural aspect) is still employed by and acts in accordance with Government direction. Though of course treated with respect - as with hydrochloric acid, venomous snakes or Hannibal Lecter!

I see his manifestations in your descriptions as inhabiting a strange twilight zone of the TT alt world: like the workings of a living nightmare that is frighteningly real to those who encounter it, such that they can’t tell the difference between imagination and (alternate) reality. Which, in an HOI3 AAR, I find deliciously strange and amusing! Fictitious characters struggling with their own sense of reality!

And now Ogel has something to do and can work slowly to match the efforts of his espionage operations and ‘wet ops’ people to a common task in Italy (where revenge will have to be savoured cold due to the paucity of resources allocated to it). I have in mind a plan for the future where the war is carried to Italy and the undermining of NU and creation of covert ops points (a later coup perhaps?) may come into calculations.

And for the narrative, we now have a dangerous and visceral rivalry between the two most powerful ‘secret servants’ in the Republic! The scene wrote itself as it went along - it wasn’t actually premeditated - so in a way, it mirrored a meeting where the thin veneer of civilisation breaks down and the fangs of the predators are finally bared. I rather enjoyed writing it!

 

[diskoerekto]

wow excellent thread just subscribed

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Yes, avid readers will have known that Kaya and Ogel have long despised each other. In this specific case, Kaya started it with his deliberate takedown of Ogel’s grand espionage plan - not only did he put the kybosh on the expansion plan, but stuck the knife in so hard Ogel had his whole operation reduced to a vestige, with basically no role left at all, while Kaya retained all his domestic powers.

First, Ogel saw that Inonu and Bayar did nothing to moderate Kaya’s attack on him. So it seemed like ‘open season’ at that point.

Second, he decided to apply the ‘cold revenge’ principle to Kaya himself. Though combined with the same ‘red mist’ that obscures Ogel’s vision when his legendary cool facade finally cracks (see what happened in his Apotheosis in Chapter 27). He has played for high stakes before and sees Kaya pretty much trashing his life’s work in a humiliating play in front of his colleagues.

Third, knowing that dogs are allowed to eat each other in this Government so long as a solid image is maintained in public, he decides to take his chance when Kaya presents it. Unlike Kaya’s well-planned strike, this is spontaneous but no less devastating.

Ogel is emboldened when Aras offers him support and the leadership does not intervene - we can assume he reads the body language around the table and sees a green light to escalate. Helped by the fact everyone else hates and fears Kaya almost as much as he does. Even Inonu would not want his Interior Minister getting too much power - and the entire UGNR internal security apparatus, the secret police plus S.I.T.H. certainly seems like too much!

As Ogel keeps building up and is allowed to get away with it, he decides to go all-in. And his request is actually reasonable, in terms of remits and dispersal of power. Inonu is happy enough to see the ship right itself in this way.

And in the main ATL universe of TT, Kelebek’s physical manifestation (as opposed to his supernatural aspect) is still employed by and acts in accordance with Government direction. Though of course treated with respect - as with hydrochloric acid, venomous snakes or Hannibal Lecter!

I see his manifestations in your descriptions as inhabiting a strange twilight zone of the TT alt world: like the workings of a living nightmare that is frighteningly real to those who encounter it, such that they can’t tell the difference between imagination and (alternate) reality. Which, in an HOI3 AAR, I find deliciously strange and amusing! Fictitious characters struggling with their own sense of reality!

And now Ogel has something to do and can work slowly to match the efforts of his espionage operations and ‘wet ops’ people to a common task in Italy (where revenge will have to be savoured cold due to the paucity of resources allocated to it). I have in mind a plan for the future where the war is carried to Italy and the undermining of NU and creation of covert ops points (a later coup perhaps?) may come into calculations.

And for the narrative, we now have a dangerous and visceral rivalry between the two most powerful ‘secret servants’ in the Republic! The scene wrote itself as it went along - it wasn’t actually premeditated - so in a way, it mirrored a meeting where the thin veneer of civilisation breaks down and the fangs of the predators are finally bared. I rather enjoyed writing it!

Excellent thinking there about political mechanations there. I think like most regimes, the government is justly afraid of their own security services, especially as most have specialised departments for taking out 'traitors' of the regime in government. One of the reasons turkey does is that there are two ministers at the top constantly competing with each other for power, allowing for the section chiefs and the president to run a very effective and efficient service despite its size and lack of resources. When we remember that they are trying to keep order over all of Persia and the Balkans as well as the homeland, this becomes more impressive and vital. Unlike Germany, and actually quite like Italy, the republic could come crashing down tomorrow if certain groups and peoples within the country were agitated enough by internal or foreign forces.

Speaking of, I bet we could get the Italians to fall to bits if we wanted them to. Crush the idea of a unified peninsula once again and split at very least the south away from the north. The only obstacle to achieving that in the south is the Mafia, which seems to be allied to the fascists for some reason. We get rid I feel them though or merely turn them away from fascism and the south below Rome falls. The pope would be a good ally too, and he really doesn't like the Italians. They tried to kill him.

 

[Bullfilter]

wow excellent thread just subscribed

Thank you very much - great to have you aboard diskoerekto! Please feel free to ask any questions or make any comments about either past or current events - historical discussions are always welcome

 

[Bullfilter]

Excellent thinking there about political mechanations there. I think like most regimes, the government is justly afraid of their own security services, especially as most have specialised departments for taking out 'traitors' of the regime in government. One of the reasons turkey does is that there are two ministers at the top constantly competing with each other for power, allowing for the section chiefs and the president to run a very effective and efficient service despite its size and lack of resources. When we remember that they are trying to keep order over all of Persia and the Balkans as well as the homeland, this becomes more impressive and vital. Unlike Germany, and actually quite like Italy, the republic could come crashing down tomorrow if certain groups and peoples within the country were agitated enough by internal or foreign forces.

Speaking of, I bet we could get the Italians to fall to bits if we wanted them to. Crush the idea of a unified peninsula once again and split at very least the south away from the north. The only obstacle to achieving that in the south is the Mafia, which seems to be allied to the fascists for some reason. We get rid I feel them though or merely turn them away from fascism and the south below Rome falls. The pope would be a good ally too, and he really doesn't like the Italians. They tried to kill him.

Yes, to think of Kaya’s internal security job - even without full-on Japanese influence campaigns - oh boy! The Mafia interest was fostered by the Fascists to divert their attention overseas and against a strategic rival (ie the UGNR). Kind of like a contracted SITH equivalent, without the management overheads. Though it could have really all started by accident, with game events, a reader-inspired idea and your author’s somewhat dubious preoccupation with Godfather mythology!

 

[El Pip]

[So, due to my pic host suddenly deciding to not show any thumbnails, it took me a while to find the requisite photo and cash lira, but I hereby present the following significant award.]

The Great and Glorious Award for Play Spotting
is awarded to
Lord El Pip​

President and Milli Sef Ismet Inonu proudly makes this award for his (subtly implied but nonetheless correct) spotting of the use of Shakespeare's Henry V as the dramatic basis for the recollections and reflections of the two anonymous Turkish Foreign Ministry officials who have recently joined us in this august chronicle of Turkey's Path to Glory. The President and People of a Great and Grateful Glorious National Republic salute you!

As stated previously, the 1,000 lira can be spent in-game in any way you like (by Lord El Pip) either in London or elsewhere, at his direction. Charity, personal use, bribe, whisky for Churchill, donation to Turkey's ruling (in 1940) CHP , etc!.

It is a mighty prize, one I am humbled and honoured to win. I look forward to opportunities to deploy both the impressive funds (Almost £200 in real money!) and the probably more valuable signed photo as this tale progresses.

I am heartened that some of El Pip's advice was taken, but saddened some was ignored, in particular I still think the Rhodes endeavour is a large risk for little reward. It may well work (if the Italian naval AI forgets to react or is distracted by Sardinia) but it shouldn't, the mighty rust bucket Yavuz would probably sink if it risked leaving the Black Sea.

Top dictating from Inonu, not only is he now taking decisions alone but he is encouraging his ministers to fight amongst themselves and backstab each other. All he needs is a quick purge or two and a better moustache and he'll have gone full Stalin, if he finds that a challenge he could always steal Bayar's massive eyebrows and glue them to his lip.

 

[Bullfilter]

It is a mighty prize, one I am humbled and honoured to win. I look forward to opportunities to deploy both the impressive funds (Almost £200 in real money!) and the probably more valuable signed photo as this tale progresses.

I am heartened that some of El Pip's advice was taken, but saddened some was ignored, in particular I still think the Rhodes endeavour is a large risk for little reward. It may well work (if the Italian naval AI forgets to react or is distracted by Sardinia) but it shouldn't, the mighty rust bucket Yavuz would probably sink if it risked leaving the Black Sea.

Top dictating from Inonu, not only is he now taking decisions alone but he is encouraging his ministers to fight amongst themselves and backstab each other. All he needs is a quick purge or two and a better moustache and he'll have gone full Stalin, if he finds that a challenge he could always steal Bayar's massive eyebrows and glue them to his lip.

On Rhodes: Inonu was hesitant to approve that (I was going to scrub until I saw what the Italians had there - not too much for an attack, but some irritating anti-commerce units very close to the Glorious Motherland). If the air phase doesn’t go well or flushes out more Italian support, then the President will abort the mission. I’m actually not too worried about the fleet - not like it would be a great loss and is only completely useless if it isn’t used . And I almost welcome the Italians trying to send a fleet that far east - the British would likely eat it for brunch, like happened in the Dodecanese. The only thing I’d really be afraid of losing would be 15 Inf Div: that would be a cruel setback.

Glad you noticed that Stalin Light/politburo behaviour by the Milli Sef . Between that and the comparisons to Henry V, there won’t be boots (jackboots?) big enough for him soon! Can you imagine the personal destiny factor if the Comintern wins!?

I look forward to that princely prize being used whenever Lord El Pip chooses to use it (in part or full). For now, I can imagine the photo being prominently displayed in his study - part of his “I love me wall” (before they were called that). Up there with Winnie - but perhaps not Neville! Tiso and Tuka?

 

[diskoerekto]

Thank you very much - great to have you aboard diskoerekto! Please feel free to ask any questions or make any comments about either past or current events - historical discussions are always welcome

• I read most of the thread (with the occassional skipping) but I missed the part where Dodecanese was taken from the Italians.
• Do you plan conquering Afghanistan any time?

Keep up the good work

 

[Bullfilter]

• I read most of the thread (with the occassional skipping) but I missed the part where Dodecanese was taken from the Italians.
• Do you plan conquering Afghanistan any time?

Keep up the good work

1. The Dodecanese fell in June 1940, Chapter 80 (see the threadmark or Contents page at the beginning for easy reference). The land invasion started in Chapter 78 (4 June), after a few days of air bombardment. Took two weeks of that assault and continuous air bombardment to take it. It too (like Rhodes) was mountainous terrain.

2. At this stage, I'm planning to leave Afghanistan alone. No big VPs there or Comintern victory objectives and it's a long way to send the troops (time to do it would have been after the conquest of Iran). If there is some spare time later, it could be done I guess, but it's a long way to go.

3. Thanks

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

1. The Dodecanese fell in June 1940, Chapter 80 (see the threadmark or Contents page at the beginning for easy reference). The land invasion started in Chapter 78 (4 June), after a few days of air bombardment. Took two weeks of that assault and continuous air bombardment to take it. It too (like Rhodes) was mountainous terrain.

2. At this stage, I'm planning to leave Afghanistan alone. No big VPs there or Comintern victory objectives and it's a long way to send the troops (time to do it would have been after the conquest of Iran). If there is some spare time later, it could be done I guess, but it's a long way to go.

3. Thanks

Something to do once you've established control of the rest of the Middle East, Arabia and North Africa. Then you can start running it into the ground by getting into a horrible war in Afghanistan.

 

[Bullfilter]

Something to do once you've established control of the rest of the Middle East, Arabia and North Africa. Then you can start running it into the ground by getting into a horrible war in Afghanistan.

Indeed, while the game wouldn’t simulate it (say with continuous partisan uprisings), the reverberations from OTL future make me very wary. Kinda superstitious I know, but still ...

 

[markkur]

And for the narrative, we now have a dangerous and visceral rivalry between the two most powerful ‘secret servants’ in the Republic! The scene wrote itself as it went along - it wasn’t actually premeditated - so in a way, it mirrored a meeting where the thin veneer of civilisation breaks down and the fangs of the predators are finally bared. I rather enjoyed writing it!

Well done! I think it natural (base) that when a Nation's power rises, more than one head starts worrying about what other head has most. The perfect launch into other-than-reality.<L>

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Indeed, while the game wouldn’t simulate it (say with continuous partisan uprisings), the reverberations from OTL future make me very wary. Kinda superstitious I know, but still ...

This is true...you know, I wonder if you would be interested in using the Victoria 2 modern day mod to have a look at how your Turkey would handle the post war world? It wouldn't necessarily even have to be published, but I'm interest to see the economic and political effects of a truly total dominant local power over Middle Eastern Oil, Mediterranean-Indian Ocean trade and a somewhat equal/second tier ally to Soviet Russia (That might remain on friendly terms unlike OTL China, despite being less communist).
Would Afghanistan turn into a disaster? Would they realise this and not do anything but puppet/coerce it diplomatically? Would they be forced to intervene anyway for some reason? What about relations between the soviets, turkey and the US? What would happen with Palestine? Etc etc.

 

[Bullfilter]

This is true...you know, I wonder if you would be interested in using the Victoria 2 modern day mod to have a look at how your Turkey would handle the post war world? It wouldn't necessarily even have to be published, but I'm interest to see the economic and political effects of a truly total dominant local power over Middle Eastern Oil, Mediterranean-Indian Ocean trade and a somewhat equal/second tier ally to Soviet Russia (That might remain on friendly terms unlike OTL China, despite being less communist).
Would Afghanistan turn into a disaster? Would they realise this and not do anything but puppet/coerce it diplomatically? Would they be forced to intervene anyway for some reason? What about relations between the soviets, turkey and the US? What would happen with Palestine? Etc etc.

Interesting concept - have never played Vicky. A mega-campaign using a game originally designed for a past period would be a quaint idea. Is there a converter that goes ‘backwards’? Or would it have to be customised? Because to be faithful, it should mirror the rest of whatever the TT world looks like by the time this one finishes.

As I’m not familiar with the game dynamic, I gather Vicky must simulate the social and economic aspects more. All HOI does of course is provide an engine for war simulation over a limited period.

 

[Bullfilter]

Well done! I think it natural (base) that when a Nation's power rises, more than one head starts worrying about what other head has most. The perfect launch into other-than-reality.<L>

Thanks Professor M . The GU is starting to approach the SU in size, scope and diversity, if not in power, population or economic capacity. Such rivalries are natural.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Interesting concept - have never played Vicky. A mega-campaign using a game originally designed for a past period would be a quaint idea. Is there a converter that goes ‘backwards’? Or would it have to be customised? Because to be faithful, it should mirror the rest of whatever the TT world looks like by the time this one finishes.

As I’m not familiar with the game dynamic, I gather Vicky must simulate the social and economic aspects more. All HOI does of course is provide an engine for war simulation over a limited period.

Vicky2 is the reputed economic simulator of the Paradox series. Since war on a grand scale isn't that likely (we hope) past the second world war, economics and politics take over again as the main movers in the world. It would be interesting to see if Turkey can survive beyond the war period that spawned it or if it quickly becomes a sick man of Euopre yet again.

 

[El Pip]

Vicky2 is the reputed economic simulator of the Paradox series. Since war on a grand scale isn't that likely (we hope) past the second world war, economics and politics take over again as the main movers in the world. It would be interesting to see if Turkey can survive beyond the war period that spawned it or if it quickly becomes a sick man of Euopre yet again.

Police states and wide scale repression are not cheap, especially when many of the areas you are trying to repress contain nationalities who in part define themselves as 'Not Turkish'. Worse, after the initial sugar rush of industrialisation and mobilisation Soviet economics tend towards stagflation or worse. Turkey has Persian oil, but the Soviets had the Caucasus' and Siberian oil and all it did was stave off the inevitable. I think Turkey's path would mirror Russias, a post-war boom of rebuilding and herding peasant farmers into factories and then a mire of stagnation, corruption and waste propped up by oil export revenue.

Of course Turkey could try and steer it's own course, but it (should be) far harder to escape the Comintern than enter. I would expect Soviet 'advisers' to fly into Ankara to correct the government should any Trotyskist counter-revolutionary splitters try to deviate from the true path of marxist-leninist-stalinism.