DSMyers1 said:
have a nice vacation Daniel,
We will talk about the religions some more when you return.
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have a nice vacation Daniel,
We will talk about the religions some more when you return.
A little question before you go:
Why are the winters in ATF so long and harsh and widespread?
Why are the winters in ATF so long and harsh and widespread?
Mosby, it's not winter but ice age!Singleton Mosby said:
But we can't simulate ice age very well, only the weather.
In ice age, Korea and Japan was united by land.
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ladyfabia said:Mosby, it's not winter but ice age!
But we can simulate ice age very well, only the weather.
In ice age, Korea and Japan was united by land.
3.000 BC was no iceage at all and it wasn't even colder.
I don't know about Ice Age but in download thread, Daniel said "Ice Age in Europe, beware winters in everywhere." So I assume that winter represent Ice Age.
Singleton Mosby said:
Eh Mosby, I think we already talked about that. I think the Ice Age was after the flood, from the evidence I have seen. I can talk to you about that again when I get back if you like. There is no real evidence for that particular age, (18,000 years) especially if you think a worldwide flood rearranged everything some 5,000 years ago.
DSMyers1 said:
We spoke about a small temporary ice-age.
But we will speak about it later.
Have a nice vacation, and eh, the book on India did not give me very much usefull info on the period excpet for the excistance of the Aryan and harrapans.
Gave the scenario a shot. Great idea and I especially like the Biblical twist, I'm devout atheist but I think the Biblical stuff gives it a good flavour. Hell, I'd like a few good Godly smiting events or whatnot thrown in. A few things that need to be worked on:
-I get error messages about leader tags already being used a lot, the sometimes make the game crash.
-Is there anyway to fix up the province city names? I know almost every place starts as a colony, but is there any way to give cities historical names despite that?
-How do you install the graphics?
-I think I'll see how the game runs with explore with all fleets tech level knocked up a bit, might cut down a bit on early colonization of Africa and Norway and whatnot.
-The relgions need to be a bit less random. I could try to give you some hand in sorting that out, although it might be hard in some cases since in a good number of cases there's no information about some of your countries anywhere except for a mention or two in the Bible. Also are the effects of the religions the same as in vanilla EU II? ie morale bonuses, tech effects, pagans swapping culture when converted etc. etc.
-Want some help fleshing in leader files and events and whatnot? I don't know anything at all about scenario-making but I know a good bit about history and I've got a pretty good historical atlas on hand.
And then there's my only big complaint, the vassal release event and the problems it creates. Basically no nation stays dead, they always keep on popping up as soon as they've been conquered. When I played a hands off game again and again and again a country would pop back into existance about a month after its been conquered (and in one case ALL 10ish provinces of China became Vietnam after which China was recreated out of a Korean colony after which China was conquered after which China poped back up again in China and took just about all of Vietnam with it except for the Vietnamese colony and a Chinese-culture colony or two up in Manchuria). This makes it almost impossible for the AI to cobble together an empire except in the bits of the map where revolter tags are sparse. This is especially bad in the Mid-East where for most of the game just about all of a big old swath that goes from Yemen up to the Caucuses is composed entirely of one-province countries (this is especially bad in Palestine with all the Isrealites/Canaan/Jebus flip-flopping).
What I would do is put in some post-Babel events to make sure that the Big 3 successor states get broken up pretty well (I wouldn't use the BB permanently, since that gimps them pretty much permanently) I'd use event-based revolt risk and the constant event-based appearance of rebels.
But after the Big 3 gets broken up, I'd really make it a lot less likely for states to break up. I felt so sorry for bunches of countries that I watched try and try to expand and then constantly give their land away. I'd definately limit the number of countries that get released at any one time to 1 and make the AI most likely to choose added RR instead of handing their land away. Also if there's ANY way to make this revolt not fire for countries that have already had the "creation of x kingdom" event then that would probably fix things up pretty well right there so you wouldn't have countries get smacked down and released as vassals over and over again.
Of course its nice to have new states emerge but it should be at least possible for the AI to hold onto at least a few colonies and not constatly give away territory that exists in land covered by a potential revolter.
Also you need to spread out the country tags a bit. There's a HUGE concentration in the Mid-east while a lot of areas are pretty sparse. While the initial break-up in the Mid-east is all well and good there's enough revolter tags in the area (especially overlapping ones and especially in Arabia which seems to get a whole lot more tags then it deserces) to make the area really congested, especially when there's good-sized areas without any tags.
-I get error messages about leader tags already being used a lot, the sometimes make the game crash.
-Is there anyway to fix up the province city names? I know almost every place starts as a colony, but is there any way to give cities historical names despite that?
-How do you install the graphics?
-I think I'll see how the game runs with explore with all fleets tech level knocked up a bit, might cut down a bit on early colonization of Africa and Norway and whatnot.
-The relgions need to be a bit less random. I could try to give you some hand in sorting that out, although it might be hard in some cases since in a good number of cases there's no information about some of your countries anywhere except for a mention or two in the Bible. Also are the effects of the religions the same as in vanilla EU II? ie morale bonuses, tech effects, pagans swapping culture when converted etc. etc.
-Want some help fleshing in leader files and events and whatnot? I don't know anything at all about scenario-making but I know a good bit about history and I've got a pretty good historical atlas on hand.
And then there's my only big complaint, the vassal release event and the problems it creates. Basically no nation stays dead, they always keep on popping up as soon as they've been conquered. When I played a hands off game again and again and again a country would pop back into existance about a month after its been conquered (and in one case ALL 10ish provinces of China became Vietnam after which China was recreated out of a Korean colony after which China was conquered after which China poped back up again in China and took just about all of Vietnam with it except for the Vietnamese colony and a Chinese-culture colony or two up in Manchuria). This makes it almost impossible for the AI to cobble together an empire except in the bits of the map where revolter tags are sparse. This is especially bad in the Mid-East where for most of the game just about all of a big old swath that goes from Yemen up to the Caucuses is composed entirely of one-province countries (this is especially bad in Palestine with all the Isrealites/Canaan/Jebus flip-flopping).
What I would do is put in some post-Babel events to make sure that the Big 3 successor states get broken up pretty well (I wouldn't use the BB permanently, since that gimps them pretty much permanently) I'd use event-based revolt risk and the constant event-based appearance of rebels.
But after the Big 3 gets broken up, I'd really make it a lot less likely for states to break up. I felt so sorry for bunches of countries that I watched try and try to expand and then constantly give their land away. I'd definately limit the number of countries that get released at any one time to 1 and make the AI most likely to choose added RR instead of handing their land away. Also if there's ANY way to make this revolt not fire for countries that have already had the "creation of x kingdom" event then that would probably fix things up pretty well right there so you wouldn't have countries get smacked down and released as vassals over and over again.
Of course its nice to have new states emerge but it should be at least possible for the AI to hold onto at least a few colonies and not constatly give away territory that exists in land covered by a potential revolter.
Also you need to spread out the country tags a bit. There's a HUGE concentration in the Mid-east while a lot of areas are pretty sparse. While the initial break-up in the Mid-east is all well and good there's enough revolter tags in the area (especially overlapping ones and especially in Arabia which seems to get a whole lot more tags then it deserces) to make the area really congested, especially when there's good-sized areas without any tags.
Boshko said:
Great! I really like the feedback!
Boshko said:
Actually, I never made any leader files, so those are the vanilla EU2 files conflicting with the latest of Johan's Betas. However, I don't know how that could make the game crash
Boshko said:
There is a way, I think, but I'm not sure how. Not really high priority
I just want to balance the game and keep it from crashing for now Boshko said:
Well, I think it's in the readme. Just unzip the ATF graphics .zip file to your EU2 directory. It should just add a Gfx folder to the ATF folder.
Boshko said:
That's a thought. Could also tweak the AI files. But I did want there to be at least a few colonies worldwide by the end...
Boshko said:
Mosby is working on the grouping of religions. If you have info on it, that will help. We were just going to group the religions so it wouldn't hinder empires (though I actually liked the fragmented way.) Yes the effects are highly altered, though since I could not differenciate the religions for the most part they are the same. Only Godliness and Taoism are different from the standard, I think.
Boshko said:
Yes I want help! For most, I think just some randomly generated files for monarchs and leaders would be good, but I need believable names. For Israel, I would have no problem. For Egypt, Chaldea, Akkad, Assyria, and maybe China I think enough records exist to make semi-historical files.
Boshko said:
Right. While I was away I changed the A option in the breakup events to "Crush the Rebels" Worked alot better. I will post tomorrow a world map from my hands-off game testing that concept from 1750.
Boshko said:
I had some events like that. But I didn't like to play that version, since I hate rebel bashing. I don't know....
Boshko said:
As I mentioned above, I already fixed that to a great extent. You will see a mammoth Empire of the Phoenicians....
Boshko said:
Yeah.
Boshko said:
Unfortunately, the Middle east is where everybody was! So there are not many more historical nations spread out before 1000 BC. What might be useful would be to decrease the colonists per year somewhat to make the scenario more Mideast focused.
Again, thanks a ton for your input! Please feel free to make changes and help out on this project.
Oh OK. I guess my computer is old enough that a lot of things (including getting IM messages) make EU II crash sometimes.
Right, I don't know much about coding, but if there is a way I wouldn't mind giving you a hand with that.
Right bit of a trade-off. The problem that you can't get around is that you can't colonize an inland province unless there's a city next to it in the most recent EU II patch (right?). So that coastal regions get colonized WAY WAY before inland regions, making it harder for the AI to explore the sea would just be a bit of a band-aid solution at best.
Ah ok. Good to know.
OK, I could do that. I'm sure I could figure out how to format a leader file.
Aaaah, that could definately help.
After some though I agree with you here. Having lots of states in the middle east helps there be a population boom in the heartland and fuel the expansion and isn't a problem as long as the breakaway states stay dead when you kill them.
Oh, one more thing. What are the Culture Events exactly? Are you planning on making them apply to every country?
What I think I'll do is some experimental monkeying with the Vassal events (there's numerous copies of them so that they fire more often, right?) and then either make up leader files or mine the Bible for non-Israel event ideas (think its a good idea to make the mod as Biblical as possible, since that gives it a unique flavor) if you don't mind...
Daniel;
I have some sad newss. For my atf aar I think I have lost the save-game (semi-) permanently when my computer crashed.
By now I have bought a new one so I will be up and running with the atf very soon but getting hold of my savegames (and other files) will be a monumentous task.
Still, I got some 50 years to write on with the atf aar, and posted some 3 or 4 posts in your absesne.
How was Catskill?
I have some sad newss. For my atf aar I think I have lost the save-game (semi-) permanently when my computer crashed.
By now I have bought a new one so I will be up and running with the atf very soon but getting hold of my savegames (and other files) will be a monumentous task.
Still, I got some 50 years to write on with the atf aar, and posted some 3 or 4 posts in your absesne.
How was Catskill?
Boshko said:
As Daniel already said I have been working on it a bit.
But I could not find very much info on it and I would certainly pay a lot of respect to your atlas when it can tell us about the 3000BC situation.
For now, welcome to the atf....Nice to see a new face.
I went through the vassal events and monkied around with them.
I made it so when a nation gets released only that nation gets released instead of all available ones and I also made it that if the nation creation events have been triggered the unrest event for that nation won't trigger ever again (so basically if, say, Nimrod is all restive, gets its independence granted and becomes a nation and then is re-annexed it won't get restive ever again). Seems to work out well so far, I was afraid that the Mid-east would take too long to fragment but due to governments falling in the beginning it fragmented just fine after which there was a slow and interesting process of consolidation.
The only problem is that colonization is now WAAAAAAAAAAAY slower than before I monkied with the events, but then I've only made vassal events for 50 of the 130 nations so once I finish the other 80 things should be more normal.
Interesting experiment, I'll keep you posted on how it works out.
I made it so when a nation gets released only that nation gets released instead of all available ones and I also made it that if the nation creation events have been triggered the unrest event for that nation won't trigger ever again (so basically if, say, Nimrod is all restive, gets its independence granted and becomes a nation and then is re-annexed it won't get restive ever again). Seems to work out well so far, I was afraid that the Mid-east would take too long to fragment but due to governments falling in the beginning it fragmented just fine after which there was a slow and interesting process of consolidation.
The only problem is that colonization is now WAAAAAAAAAAAY slower than before I monkied with the events, but then I've only made vassal events for 50 of the 130 nations so once I finish the other 80 things should be more normal.
Interesting experiment, I'll keep you posted on how it works out.
But as it is now it will take way into the 1500's before the rim of Europe is colonized. This way it will take until the end of the game.
Boshko said:
Did at one point, but I don't think they are useful enough. So no, and I'll probably delete them sooner or later
Boshko said:
Well, I couldn't really make them random (I don't remember why though
o ) Therefore I made a different set for each century of game time. For historical events, while I was away I worked out much of the Exodus from Egypt event set (~15 events) But I need to get the United Egypt events done to get them to fire. Or else make them province based... There are quite a few events to make historically, to simulate, say, the rise of Sargon or the fall of the Hittites to the Sea Peoples (though I still don't know who they were )
Singleton Mosby said:
Too bad. But actually, it is running on so old a version anyway of this scenario...
I was wondering... How does a country hopping AAR in ATF sound? I dropped in to help out the Celts in the game I will discuss below, and it was a lot of fun bringing the 4 province Celts to #5 in the power ratings.
Okay, here's a new hands-off game. I used my altered version of the Vassal events to allow more world empires. Actually, usually most declared independence eventually. I added +5 BB to crushing the rebels, so the South Arabian Superpower of early game started getting hit by BB civil war by the end, and eventually broke apart. That was Sheleph, #1 in the world for a long time. Akkad was #1 for a long time also, conquering the entire fertile crescent. But then they went with a C option and became Media, and freed all vassals. Rangpur was up there, who went on a wild world colonization spree, ding such places as all of Northern Germany, much of Argentina, Southern Africa, and other peculiar places (like Sardinia and Gibraltar). But they could not defend all of it to rebels or the European power, Elishah. Then it was Teotihuacan #1 (!!) as they colonized up a storm, owning much of north and south America. But the mighty Phoenicians overtook them, diploannexing the rest of the Akkadian (now Median) empire, diplo-annexing the Scythians I think, and colonizing elsewhere. As the Celts I took some 15 French provinces from them. At the end of the game, though, they were losing ground to the Indian Superpower, Maghada, who through many wars had conquered nearly all of India and was expanding into Indochina with unstoppably huge armies. I musn't forget the Niu-Chi either, who dominated northern China and the St. Lawrence River in Canada. Also Put, who controlled West Africa. Magog took the Steppes of Russia....
The screenshot (or combination of 15 or so) is too big a file to display here, so this is the link (870kb)
ATF World Map
Thumbnail:
The changes worked nicely!!
The screenshot (or combination of 15 or so) is too big a file to display here, so this is the link (870kb)
ATF World Map
Thumbnail:
The changes worked nicely!!
DSMyers1 said:
Well it sounds good post it up in the aar forum and I will join you as soon as you have posted.
For the other game I think I will get the latest version and try to simulate the situation I have now. no, that will be impossible.
Eh, you will hear from me later on the roman aar but for the hopping thing. Perfect. Good idea, I am your man.
Is there a way to get countries like Elsiha for example to stop sprading over all continents and focus on only one?