The Wars of the Roses

[HistoryDude]

Nobles marrying for love are so very rare. It seems that Edmund must content himself with a marriage that brings an alliance... assuming that he doesn't do something reckless...

It's good to see that Margaret's threat is not being ignored.

 

[El Pip]

Edmund is at least realistic about his position and his lack of choice in the matter. And he's got his own gang which is nice for him, even if they are not always giving him the best advice.

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

It will be lovely to have the "gentle" and "not stubborn at all" Isabella in England. She will put Maggie of Anjou to shame...

 

[Rensslaer]

It will certainly be an interesting match. What is Richard's hesitancy? Just not wanting to seem too eager? Or is there something else?

Edmund seems willing. If it works how much carries with it? Possible world exploration? Union with Castile would be pretty major.

Rensslaer

 

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

Nobles marrying for love are so very rare. It seems that Edmund must content himself with a marriage that brings an alliance... assuming that he doesn't do something reckless...

It's good to see that Margaret's threat is not being ignored.

It is a question - can Edmund remain the loyal son or will he go out on his own?

Edmund is at least realistic about his position and his lack of choice in the matter. And he's got his own gang which is nice for him, even if they are not always giving him the best advice.

I admit, I hated losing Norfolk when it happened. I did not have to since this has already differed, but I thought it would fit more realistically. Besides, his son is just as interesting to me and not unlike his father. Not a terrible pal for Edmund to have around.

It will be lovely to have the "gentle" and "not stubborn at all" Isabella in England. She will put Maggie of Anjou to shame...

That is definitely part of the interest (to me at least) of perhaps having Isabella enter the picture.

It will certainly be an interesting match. What is Richard's hesitancy? Just not wanting to seem too eager? Or is there something else?

Edmund seems willing. If it works how much carries with it? Possible world exploration? Union with Castile would be pretty major.

Rensslaer

As you will see, Richard still wants the match. But he wants to hold out to get as much as he can. His game of matches right now is all about the alliances he can get out of them.

 

[coz1]

Greenwich, February 1463​

God his hair was blond. Almost white and so fine and wispy. He’d never seen a babe so full of curls right out of the shoot yet every slight inch of it was soft and precious to the touch. And he seemed to laugh early. Not crying. Joyful and spirited almost the instant he was born. He held the babe in his arms and bent slightly to kiss the forehead ever so gently. A smile returned to him with no confusion. It was love at first sight.

“Husband...you take up too much of the blanket.”

Richard opened his eyes and blinked a time or two before rolling over in the bed, “Was I?”

“Though we be released from the cold hallways of Westminster, sir...” Cecily allowed a slight smile in return, “...there remains a chill to the air and every inch of your cover is no longer mine.”

“I was...” Richard released his grip from the blankets and rested his head to the pillow, “...I was dreaming of Edward.”

Cecily suddenly showed a chill in her voice, “I have asked you more than once, sir. I wish not to hear that name. I cannot...must not. It is too painful still.”

“I am sorry, my sweetest dove,” Richard quickly sat up in the bed to comfort her, “I know it. Yet I may not help myself. I do miss him as much as you. He was our boy...our sweet boy. Our very first and our very own.”

She pulled away and covered herself before rising from the bed, “I shall weep now, husband. Thank you.”

“Oh Cis...” Richard followed her, “...do not let us fight. Yet we cannot pretend that he did not exist.”

Cecily moved closer to the fire and brushed the tears roughly from her cheeks, “I would NEVER do such a thing, my Lord! It is a fine price to buy our happiness and life. And I have paid it!”

“You are unsettled, woman,” Richard sat back to the bed and began to tie up his night shift, “I have much to do this day and did not wish to begin it in such manner. I had thought Greenwich warmer for you yet it seems not.”

“It was hers,” she answered her husband the King, “And I take great pleasure from denying her such. Yet I will not be denied, sir. No. Not when you plan to take another from me.”

Richard finally stood once more to put on his robe, “I’ll not discuss it again, Cis. Margaret is to be married. That is final.”

“I thought that I had say in our children and their matches!” Cecily stood firm by the fire, “Or am I just some breed mare. Is that it?”

He sighed and moved to pour some ale, “Must you be so like our nephew of Warwick?”

“I care not for his whims one way or tother, sir,” she was adamant, “Meg is hardly seven and ten, Dickon. And no pawn for she is precious to me.”

“You of all people should know that Margaret is the precise age to match,” Richard turned to her, “And with one so illustrious.”

She scoffed, “Then why does Warwick hold such troubles?”

Richard grumbled under his breath as he shifted to sit by the fire and warm his bare feet, “His political game in what once was France is foiled. He seeks to divide France and Burgundy yet does not see that one is defeated and the other no friend to us. He is enthralled by this Charles of Burgundy. I know not why. We’ve both met him. As smart as his father before him but as ambitious as our nephew. Mayhap more so. And he begs off war with France for whatever reason, I could not say.”

“That is all fair,” Cecily moved behind her husband and brushed gently at his shaved pate as she too looked to the fire, “Yet Henri d’Albert of Champagne is near to forty. Is that not too old for our cherub?”

He craned his neck to her briefly, “He is a King, madam.”

“They are all Kings these days,” she answered quickly.

Richard was just as swift in reply, “And our nephew thinks himself a kingmaker. He has a pride to him that your brother, his father, never did possess.”

She rounded the chair and knelt to the floor at his knee, “Yet what great harm is there to a French match? This François is so very near to Meg’s age. And he has inquired.”

“Never!” the King was certain as he sipped at his ale, “Nay, my Lady. I shall not hold peace with France in any ways. They are broken and must be put down as you would a lame horse. It is my right as heir to Edward III. More to that, they harbor the whore that you and I detest so very much. No, Cis...I’ll not marry them.”

She hugged at his knee, “Then what about Ed? The man from Burgundy holds a daughter. And he now calls himself King as well.”

“Yet another conversation I tire of hearing,” Richard grumbled again, “Edmund will marry the Princess of Castile. I made the man wait to gain as much as we could. King Enrique is vital yet we shall have ours as well. The dowry is substantial.”

Cecily shifted and sat to his lap. She turned his head to her and showed determined eyes, “You are provoking a war.”

“Yes,” he answered plainly, “Yes...indeed I am. As I did to the Scots in the north and Ireland, I will do so in France. Look ye just to Norham Castle where Ralph Percy sieges...do you see the Scots in attendance? No. They found my threat to them profound and our Lord Montagu will sort it out. John Neville is a soldier. Would that his brother more that than a politician. And include that the Scots tossed the whore right to her backside which is where she so often lives. She should be right at home.”

“Of course,” she brushed his cheek, “Yet if you are to war with France, do you not worry that Burgundy will intercede?”

He smiled to her, “I care not if they do. Let them come. If they cannot be bought, then another one may be found. And that price is Champagne and Castile.”

“You are a pleasure to me when you are mischievous,” she answered, “So I may forgive you.”

Richard kissed her cheek, “Then you will not argue anymore?”

“It depends...” she teased, “...on what you say next.”

He grinned, “What if I suggested that we return to bed?”

“It is cold,” Cecily answered as she allowed him to sweep her up in his arms.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Well, at least England has a king who knows what he's doing foreign affairs wise. Though I do hope he's prepared to fight Scotland and France at rhe same time, because that is exactly what's going to happen as soon as the former think they can get away with it.

 

[HistoryDude]

At least Cecily and Richard remember Edward. It's sad that it's too painful to talk about, though - how will he be remembered if no one speaks of him?

This plan looks decent and doesn't require any peace with France. Even so, I fear that Richard might be underestimating Burgundy...

The divide between Richard and Cecily and Warwick seems to go bigger. I'm sure that won't cause any problems later!

 

[El Pip]

There is a sense Richard is in a hurry, each element of his plan is fine but he is trying to do everything at once and risks a war on multiple fronts. I wonder if the distraction of being so busy is in part how is coping with the loss of Edward.

It is good to see that discussions on giving the remains of France a long overdue kicking are just the thing to get Cecily in the mood, this is a valuable personality trait for a King of England to have in their Queen.

 

[Rensslaer]

It's a great strategic plan. I hope it all works out. Then again it's never as easy as it is on paper.

Rensslaer

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

Suddenly this turn of events makes me think about what would happen if Isabel became queen of Castile. It reminds me of an alternate me that made Richard of Gloucester king of Aragon (jure uxoris, I should add).

 

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

Well, at least England has a king who knows what he's doing foreign affairs wise. Though I do hope he's prepared to fight Scotland and France at rhe same time, because that is exactly what's going to happen as soon as the former think they can get away with it.

The guess work may be there for Richard, but of course we know that France and Scotland are allied. Indeed, it is going to happen as it always did.

At least Cecily and Richard remember Edward. It's sad that it's too painful to talk about, though - how will he be remembered if no one speaks of him?

This plan looks decent and doesn't require any peace with France. Even so, I fear that Richard might be underestimating Burgundy...

The divide between Richard and Cecily and Warwick seems to go bigger. I'm sure that won't cause any problems later!

On a related note, while I have not said so explicitly in the work, part the reason it is taking some time to get going is that I am waiting for the previous truce to end.

There is a sense Richard is in a hurry, each element of his plan is fine but he is trying to do everything at once and risks a war on multiple fronts. I wonder if the distraction of being so busy is in part how is coping with the loss of Edward.

It is good to see that discussions on giving the remains of France a long overdue kicking are just the thing to get Cecily in the mood, this is a valuable personality trait for a King of England to have in their Queen.

I'm sure there is a bit of "putting it out of mind" for Richard even if his dreams keep intruding. As will be seen, these thoughts of Edward remain in many.

It's a great strategic plan. I hope it all works out. Then again it's never as easy as it is on paper.

Rensslaer

Never as easy.

Suddenly this turn of events makes me think about what would happen if Isabel became queen of Castile. It reminds me of an alternate me that made Richard of Gloucester king of Aragon (jure uxoris, I should add).

Obviously I cannot give anything away, but I'm rather excited by the concept of Isabella in England.

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

Obviously I cannot give anything away, but I'm rather excited by the concept of Isabella in England.

Like her daughter Kat but with a legion of children around her.

 

[coz1]

Like her daughter Kat but with a legion of children around her.

Indeed.

 

[coz1]

Westminster, March 1463​

Richard swept into the Council chamber and slapped his papers to the long table, “Here it is, sirs. My thoughts on what’s to be done.”

The Lord Chancellor George Neville Bishop of Exeter expressed confusion, “Your Grace...do you forget something?”

“If you wish prayer then you may do it when we are finished,” the King answered him plainly and looked to the rest, “I hold in my head a thing and I shall not be pushed or pulled from it. You, my Lords...are thieving fools!”

All of them expressed shock and the Earl of Warwick reached forward to the table, “What mean you, uncle?! That is an accusation!”

“Indeed it is,” Richard turned to him with a hard face, “I mean it so. Think you not of your own and instead to the kingdom. Our previous reign found much crown land sold off...bartered...in short, less. I’ll not have it. Yet for the price of a pence, I will let you hold it still. For a time. But no longer.”

Henry Bourchier the Earl of Essex tried to suggest, “There be no need for such tax, Your Grace. The coffers are...”

“Near to bare, sir, for what I require!” Richard was sharp in his tone, “You’ve gained your fine lands and title. I shall pass out many more. Yet we shall all pay. For I have a larger thing to mind.”

“And what is that, Your Grace?” William Neville the Earl of Kent questioned.

Richard leaned forward and rested his knuckles to the table as he grinned to them all, “I did promise to all that I would take Normandy back. I meant it. This so called French King now holds the whore to his court and they are all fugitives. I will not let this stand.”

“Hear, hear, I say,” John Tiptoft the Earl of Worcester answered.

The young Duke of Norfolk smiled as he looked to the Prince, “I agree.”

Edmund began to speak but Warwick cut him off, “Why do you feel this great need to war with France?!”

“Nephew!” the Earl of Kent looked to him with a harsh face.

Richard stood as tall as he might and held his head high, “Why do you feel the great need to disagree with me so? Am I not your King?!”

“Papa...please,” Edmund finally spoke to try and calm the chamber, “And my Lords...my father the King would only wish a thing that should have been done years ago. And was promised, as he has said. Unlike others, this King will do what he suggests and I must say to you, cousin...you act rudely.”

Richard kept his gaze to Warwick, “I need not your voice, boy! I would like this Lord to explain himself!”

“I did not mean to show disrespect, Your Grace,” Warwick calmed himself, “I merely wish to know why you are so intent on these actions. Why such haste?”

“I need not explain myself to you or anyone else to this chamber, my Lord,” Richard moved to walk around the table as they sat, “Especially as I have made it as plain as the nose to my face that this is my wish. I’ve made no secret about it. Our endeavor was always and ever about lost chances and lost gains. As I right every wrong of my cousin’s reign, this was always my desire. Normandy, sirs! I shall not rest until we hold it once more and you will no longer question me about it. Is that clear?”

The Lord Chancellor attempted to calm, “I believe that all here understand your intentions, Your Grace...”

“No, I do not believe that they do,” Richard answered quickly, “Mayhap as they fear the loss of privilege and lands that I intend to use in this endeavor. Too many have grown fat even as we found humiliation to France. Why do you think that I sit this throne at the now? My cousin and his ministers sold this realm to the highest bidder and I intend to take every bit of it back. Make no mistake. And if there be one of you that disagree...then I may find other counsel that does understand. I will not be led. I will lead.”

The Earl of Essex implored, “Your Grace, I must strongly suggest that the treasury is sound for whatever your desire.”

“It is not enough, my Lord,” Richard was just as certain, “We will require funds...soldiers...cannon and horse...ships...rations. Everything to prosecute what should be a quick and decisive victory to regain what is rightly ours. If I have learned anything over these last many years it is that one must not take a thing for granted.”

“Boldness, sire,” Norfolk followed, “The very thing.”

Warwick skewed an eye to the young Duke, “Was I not bold to Northampton, sir? At every step to make this man our King?”

“And there you over step, my Lord,” Worcester looked to him with irritation, “For you have it to mind that the victory was yours when in truth, it belongs to King Richard.”

Richard gave nod, “And so too will this be. Nephew...you are valued. Required even. Yet think not your place too highly.”

“I merely hope to advise...” Warwick attempted to answer but the King rounded on him once more.

“Your advice has been heard and discarded, sir!” Richard replied with force, “That is our right as sovereign! So you had best prepare for what is to come and make a peace with it!”

The Earl of Kent showed a sadness, “There is little peace in war, Your Grace.”

“No...” the King answered to them all, “...yet there will be in the end. Of that I promise. Normandy will be ours once more and I shall not cease until that land and that whore are both subdued!”

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

Richard needs to place Warwick leading the first charge and to hope that the French do their dirty work right.

 

[HistoryDude]

Yeah, Richard should probably be a bit more conciliatory to Warwick before he faces another revolt.

Normandy is the rightful inheritance of the House of York, so attempting to reclaim it is good. Will the lords who aid the king the most get some recompense in land or in money for their support, though? That might encourage more support.

Will you also look to reclaim other old Angevin lands? Like Aquitaine, Maine, or... Anjou (which would really offend Margaret)?

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Richard has rhe right idea. Kick France whilst rhey are down. Demonstrate his strength by taking back Normandy. Rebuilding the crown estate (sure his family is rich but the Crown needs southern lands if its going to function).

But going about it in a rough way. Kicking Warwick until he revolts (is he goading him into it to both prove his strength again and seize all his lands?) Is a dangerous ploy. Taxing rhe nobles having just become king is also a harsh measure.

Won't matter if he wins big in France AND keeps his army intact. But better hope it goes well or the civil war starts up again.

He also needs to formally sieze the duchy of Lancaster and reclaim it for the crown, inckuding its lands.

 

[Rensslaer]

Does Richard sense a rival in Warwick? Such that he needs to either bring him to heel or force him out? There seems a deliberacy about this. It's not just about Normandy. It seems it's about Warwick too.

Rensslaer

 

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

Richard needs to place Warwick leading the first charge and to hope that the French do their dirty work right.

I don't know that Richard wants to go that far - just take the Earl down a peg or two.

Yeah, Richard should probably be a bit more conciliatory to Warwick before he faces another revolt.

Normandy is the rightful inheritance of the House of York, so attempting to reclaim it is good. Will the lords who aid the king the most get some recompense in land or in money for their support, though? That might encourage more support.

Will you also look to reclaim other old Angevin lands? Like Aquitaine, Maine, or... Anjou (which would really offend Margaret)?

On the last, England still has part of Gascony in Bourgogne, bit that would surely be nice. Right now the goal is reclaiming Normandy. Of course Anjou would be nice, but that takes a separate war in EU4. It's tricky for the narrative to explain that, so it makes sense just to focus on the lands France owns outright. That said, if Richard really feels spiteful, he could go for it.

Richard has rhe right idea. Kick France whilst rhey are down. Demonstrate his strength by taking back Normandy. Rebuilding the crown estate (sure his family is rich but the Crown needs southern lands if its going to function).

But going about it in a rough way. Kicking Warwick until he revolts (is he goading him into it to both prove his strength again and seize all his lands?) Is a dangerous ploy. Taxing rhe nobles having just become king is also a harsh measure.

Won't matter if he wins big in France AND keeps his army intact. But better hope it goes well or the civil war starts up again.

He also needs to formally sieze the duchy of Lancaster and reclaim it for the crown, inckuding its lands.

Again, this is where the gameplay comes into it. It was a bit precarious to do both at once (take back crown lands and risking stability drops while also pulling the war on France) but I thought England was capable of battling both if needs be. I was rather hoping for a home rebellion for story purposes.

Does Richard sense a rival in Warwick? Such that he needs to either bring him to heel or force him out? There seems a deliberacy about this. It's not just about Normandy. It seems it's about Warwick too.

Rensslaer

It is deliberate, though likely not because he sees him as rival. In my mind, I think Richard may blame Warwick somewhat for his son's death. He may not have that specific thought, but there is something in the back of his mind. His way (as mentioned) of handling such a harsh moment in his life. Also, Warwick has already shown that he is overly ambitious and Richard may desire (and has) to press back on that.


To all - Another scene arrives in a moment and it is surprising it has taken this long to bring in the character. But here he is...