The Wars of the Roses

[Kurt_Steiner]

Fb-fb:


Never forget Sir Fulk. He's still out there and taking stock for his master.

Warwick is definitely considering the marriage game. York's intentions are nearly single minded at the moment.


York might be underestimating Margaret (as he has often done.) He really wants Normandy back as he told the Lords when he took the crown.

And indeed, I liked that little bit at the end where Warwick thinks that Edward would have allowed a thing that we know IRL, he certainly did not.


Has Castile ever been for France?

Well, the Castilian fleet trashed the English one during the HYW at La Rochelle.

With Henry IV married to Isabel of Portugal, it might led him to look at England with simpathy... where he not at odds with his wife.

 

[coz1]

Well, the Castilian fleet trashed the English one during the HYW at La Rochelle.

With Henry IV married to Isabel of Portugal, it might led him to look at England with simpathy... where he not at odds with his wife.

Enrique better get it together if he wants an heir. Of course, a good reason to ship Isabella off to England.

 

[coz1]

The Tower, February 1462​

It was damp. The waters of the Thames crept through the soil and the rock and seeped through into the low Tower cell. His voice had become raspy after two weeks to this place. A cough developed and he tried to find the bright spot in it all. John de Vere was soon to be fifty and four in age yet he did not think to see his birth date. And it was certainly not to be here.

The Lord Constable called on him with even more misery as he entered the cell with the keys dangling by his side, “Was this more comfortable, my Lord? I did promise it.”

“I am an old man!” de Vere stated defiantly, “Do with me what you will!”

Tiptoft grinned, “You would rather go back to the Ease?”

Little Ease was a cell made by a formation in the rock at the base of the Tower. Between cells, it barely held a man, yet its shape was conducive for discomfort. One was placed there in chains with their body held to a position, both crouching and bending at once, and there was no relief. There they may stay for hours...or days. The Earl of Oxford had endured it for two until he begged. Worcester suggested it again.

“I do not know what you want from me,” de Vere answered in his pain, “I have done no thing wrong and admit no other. I have neither written nor received word from the Queen...”

The Earl of Worcester stood to him, “At the first, she is no Queen. You admit it there when you suggest otherwise!”

“You twist my words...”

Tiptoft pressed, “I shall twist many a thing until you give us the truth!”

“I supported His Grace the King in his Act of Accord,” Oxford pleaded, “I have pledged my oath to him now. Is there some thing more that Richard of York would like from me?!”

“Speak to me again of this Tuddenham,” Worcester rounded the prisoner, “All know that you were once enemies. How then did you become friends?”

The Earl of Oxford showed a kind eye, “You have been gone a long time, my Lord. Have not seen nor heard many a thing. It was a matter of the Norfolk gentry, sir. No thing more. I settled with the Duke of Norfolk and even with Tuddenham. Since that day, I know little of him.”

“Then why does he hold your letter?!” Tiptoft questioned.

“That is not my letter!” Oxford stated with certainty.

Worcester produced it from his sleeve and slapped it to the table, “These are your words, sir! This is your signature!”

“That is my name...” Oxford looked to it with sorrow, “...yet that is not my writing.”

“Then it is the writing of another of your affinity,” Tiptoft pressed, “Sharing your words for you!”

“That is not my writing,” Oxford again answered with a great sigh.

John Tiptoft rounded him again with a grin, “Indeed it is not, my Lord. For that is the writing of your son. He has already admitted it.”

“Oh God forgive him!” the aged Earl begged in prayer.

“There is no place you may go, sir...” Worcester pressed to him, “...for it is all out in the open now. Every one has admitted but you. Just tell us. Give us this plot and you may be spared.”

Oxford shouted, “I hold no plot!!”

“His Grace King Richard is familiar with the case and wishes to show you mercy, my Lord,” Tiptoft moved around him again and placed a hand to his shoulder, “Says that he loves you still. A fine Lord and one of his. Yet the evidence is overwhelming and so he holds little choice. It is a sadness yet you hold choice still. His Grace says that if you would but state your guilt, he would be gentle with you. A headman’s block rather than the other. It is far worse, my Lord.”

Oxford sighed heavily, “I know well what Richard of York will do to me.”

“It causes me a sorrow, my Lord Earl...” Tiptoft moved from the chamber, “...for I sat Council with you.”

The elder Earl ignored him until he could not. For within the hour he was brought from his cell to Tower Hill. A scaffold was built and it was covered in blood already. He looked higher and saw a massive wooden crane. He knew. It was to be the worst.

“Where is my son?” de Vere questioned.

Tiptoft stood to the side, “His head was struck off two days ago...sir.”

“Then I render myself unto God,” he answered, “For I have ever only served the one and true King!”

The Earl of Worcester gave nod and gestured. Oxford was stripped of his clothes and tied up into chains. They weighed upon his body as it was lifted by the wooden crane. A pyre was set and before it was lit, the executioner stood to him. He was first disemboweled. Still alive, the Earl was then castrated. And then the fire took hold and the flames became too much. He was finally allowed to burn. It was a heretic’s death. King Richard III had made certain of that.

End of Chapter 22​

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

Enrique better get it together if he wants an heir. Of course, a good reason to ship Isabella off to England.

To give her a powerful husband that might feel interested in repeating Gaunt's adventure?

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

So, John de Vere, 12th Earl of Oxford, and his son, the other John, are gone. I hope that our Richard III doesn't attain him and there is a nephew that might become earl of Oxford. If not, there will be no Anonymous film and I like that piece of crap...

 

[coz1]

To give her a powerful husband that might feel interested in repeating Gaunt's adventure?

Have the kiddo and sort the rest later.

So, John de Vere, 12th Earl of Oxford, and his son, the other John, are gone. I hope that our Richard III doesn't attain him and there is a nephew that might become earl of Oxford. If not, there will be no Anonymous film and I like that piece of crap...

The de Vere house is definitely important in England. Part the reason I made this a stand out scene. It was his son Aubrey that lost his head, so fear not...there are more where that came from. Just not from this Oxford anymore.

 

[Rensslaer]

Okay I've just read the Battle of Wakefield and there's discussion about who might have survived when everyone seems to have died. I have a prediction.

It could be Edmund who survived the fall into icy water. This is commended by the fact that it was Leighson (aka @coz1 ?) who tossed him off.

But I also notice the Duke of York's death was not explicitly described and he fell amidst a pile of warm bodies. Would no one have checked? Dunno. But maybe.

I'd hate to lose the Duke.

Rensslaer

 

[coz1]

Okay I've just read the Battle of Wakefield and there's discussion about who might have survived when everyone seems to have died. I have a prediction.

It could be Edmund who survived the fall into icy water. This is commended by the fact that it was Leighson (aka @coz1 ?) who tossed him off.

But I also notice the Duke of York's death was not explicitly described and he fell amidst a pile of warm bodies. Would no one have checked? Dunno. But maybe.

I'd hate to lose the Duke.

Rensslaer

Keep reading. And thank you!

 

[HistoryDude]

That was... certainly not a kind death. Is there a reason why he was executed like a heretic? Is Richard implying that stating Henry is still king is religious somehow? Or am I overthinking this?

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

That was... certainly not a kind death. Is there a reason why he was executed like a heretic? Is Richard implying that stating Henry is still king is religious somehow? Or am I overthinking this?

Bearing false witness is in the same circle of hell. Though Dante hasn't established that yet.

Given the religious role of the monarchy, declaring a false king is heretical. And treasonous. There's not much differences between the heretical execution and being hung drawn and quartered.

 

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

That was... certainly not a kind death. Is there a reason why he was executed like a heretic? Is Richard implying that stating Henry is still king is religious somehow? Or am I overthinking this?

Precisely. It is heretical to plot against the anointed King. Ironic given what Richard himself eventually did.

Bearing false witness is in the same circle of hell. Though Dante hasn't established that yet.

Given the religious role of the monarchy, declaring a false king is heretical. And treasonous. There's not much differences between the heretical execution and being hung drawn and quartered.

Quite so. Richard (and Worcester) offered Oxford a headman's block but the Earl would not admit his crime so he got the worst of it. Now of course...was there really a crime or was it created to show all that Richard means business? Medieval justice in all its glory.


To all - I'll wait until tomorrow to start the next chapter, but for now allow me to plug the ongoing 2023 Yearly AARland Year-end AwAARds. Voting lasts until the end of January 2024 so please head over and add your voice. As I always say, you need not vote for this work (though always appreciated), but please do vote and support your favorite AARs and WritAARs!

 

[Bullfilter]

“Very well,” the King finally allowed it, “Call them in and do the thing. We shall find out. If de Vere is guilty, then we shall know it.”

The Earl bowed, “I shall make word at once.”

As he moved from the solar, King Richard called out, “And nephew...no more on this business of Georgie and your daughter. It is too close in any way. We shall find her a proper match.”

The Earl of Warwick bowed again and left with grumbling under his breath. Edward would have allowed it.

He gives Warwick a bone, then takes another away as he grips it up in his jaws. Richard may end up with his leg in those jaws one day …

“Then I render myself unto God,” he answered, “For I have ever only served the one and true King!”

It was a heretic’s death. King Richard III had made certain of that.

This was cruelly done. Was it by the historical record? Why heresy?

 

[coz1]

He gives Warwick a bone, then takes another away as he grips it up in his jaws. Richard may end up with his leg in those jaws one day …

Well, Margaret has called Warwick York's dog a few times. And dog's do get hungry.

This was cruelly done. Was it by the historical record? Why heresy?

It was indeed historically accurate after he as convicted of high treason. That manner of death was often called a heretic's death, though it works just as well for anyone depending on the whim of the monarch. TBC suggests above why it might be heretical to commit treason and Richard certainly wants to make an example of Oxford and his son.

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

Well, bearing in mind how the She Wolf of France took care of the Despensers, cruelty was not a novel thing for many.

 

[coz1]

Well, bearing in mind how the She Wolf of France took care of the Despensers, cruelty was not a novel thing for many.

Indeed, the original she wolf. Not novel at all.

 

[coz1]

Chapter 23: The Will to Battle

* * *

Westminster, July 1462​

Though Richard of York had taken the throne, he was not secure. Margaret remained in Scotland with Henry and the son, and the north was not yet able to leave all alone. Pockets of Percy and Neville remained and they did not like each other much less the new regime. Of Percy, the nominal Earl of Northumberland was a twelve year old child that lived at the mercy of the Tower still and the late Earl’s brother Ralph still roamed as best he could. Of Nevilles, their fortunes had as ever changed.

The junior branch given preference so many years ago thrived under the Earl of Warwick and his immediate kin. His brother George Neville was the Bishop of Exeter and Lord Chancellor to the King. His uncle was named the Earl of Kent. His younger brother Sir John Neville now nearing thirty was often called on by Richard. In short, his had gained.

The senior branch had been diminished greatly. Old Earl Ralph Neville still lived as he was unable to take part of the fighting at Wakefield nor Towton. Some said he had gone senile and was cared for by a young nephew. Richard cared not and he was attained with all of the rest and the title Earl of Westmorland became extinct. A nephew Sir Humphrey Neville would take up his cause at court, yet the King did not have ears for it.

The north was always its own land. And these two families were the last of those to contend with to fully pacify the realm. That...and Ireland.

Here the King was surely successful. After many years as the Lieutenant, he was well known and loved by many. Most especially by the Fitzgerald clan. The father had passed just this year, yet he knew also the son Thomas Fitzgerald named Earl of Desmond and they had become clear Yorkist sympathizers. It also did not hurt that the Earl of Wiltshire was dead.

For he had been James Butler, also named Earl of Ormond and the Butler family was as proud as any in Ireland. His younger brothers John and Thomas had attempted to press the claim, yet Irish politics were different. The Anglo-Irish Lords were little different than the old French petty Dukes and gave homage but did not accept the King of England as their full sovereign. He was over lord. And in this case, Richard hoped to both reward and provoke.

The English King provided incentive. Root out the Ormond and Desmond could be given to the younger brother Turlough. And Kildare was the promise. Larger and more prosperous with Ulster to the north. Richard of course also knew that it was coveted by the Scots. This is why he waited anxiously for word as he worked to papers at his desk. It had been just over a year since he had been officially crowned and this King was an active one as he had promised.

“Wine!” he called out without looking up and an attendant was quick to fetch it for him.

Instead of his drink, the Earl of Warwick entered the chamber and offered bow, “Your Grace, I bring you good news to Ireland. Near Piltown, the Earl Fitzgerald did best a force of Lancastrian sympathizers and those of the Ormond crowd. A battle which would have made our old friend Wiltshire proud as his ran from the field in defeat with nearly a thousand casualties.”

King Richard lifted his head with a rare smile, “The bloody bastard! That’s it! His are out forever. I care not for the younger Butler brothers. Let them hide with the rest. I only want good and honest men!”

“Indeed, sire,” Warwick gave another bow.

“Send great congratulations to Fitzgerald, sir, and tell him that Kildare is his,” Richard searched through his papers and found the right one. He signed his regnal name and dripped the paper with wax before pressing down his seal.

As the Earl of Warwick reached for it, he showed a concern, “Are you certain that you wish to provoke the Scots? It may cause them to lay in league with the whore and bring them down upon an already fractious north.”

“Precisely!” the King slapped his hand to the desk, “That is exactly what I desire. Let us call them forth at once and be done with it all. And if it brings in the French, mores the better.”

“Understandable, Your Grace...” the Earl hesitated, “...yet to carry such a massive force, we should require the funds. We are still recovering from the times of Henry and while the Earl of Essex does well enough as Treasurer, there be more recovery required.”

Richard crooked a brow, “Sir...I did say that I would war with France and I mean it. I shall find just cause one way or the other.”

“I still think it may be wise to slow our efforts to that front,” Warwick tried to explain, “At the first, we still find signed truce with what is left of the state of France...”

The King narrowed his brow, “Signed by unlawful powers. Frankly...the both of them.”

“You would press your worth to that claim, sire?” Warwick questioned with some shock.

Richard stood balling his fists and leaned forward to his desk, “I hold every right to do so, my Lord. It was made claim by Edward III and as I have proved, I am his heir. Yet I think not to press too strongly. I promised Normandy and that is my goal.”

“Yet think of the possibilities, Your Grace,” the Earl offered, “If you could but hold back...for a time. There is chance to wed your son Edmund to a Princess of that place. That would cause them to strongly reject any thing posed by Margaret with Henry still in her charge. It takes them from the field so that we may focus on the north. And Scotland too, if needs must.”

The King showed a stern eye, “I do not wish them from the field, sir. Nor do I wish any ties with France at all. Have I not made this clear?”

Warwick answered quickly, “Of course, yet we are trying to rekindle relations with Burgundy. At the now, Lord Hastings and the Earl of Kent try to bargain with King Charles and they prove troubled. If the French King dies and Louis inherits, we could see both France and Burgundy against us. They must be held apart, sire.”

“I am not a fool, my Lord,” Richard shuffled some papers and produced a rendering of Europe, “There is more than one King to this place and I will look to all of them. Yet I shall not rest when I promised both good government and stolen lands regained. At the now, France holds them in Normandy and I did not spend my youth in its rescue to see it lost to this realm.”

Warwick showed impatience, “Uncle, we are barely after a year and this realm might enjoy some peace. The north remains alight as it is and many still hold memory of a past sovereign for as long as he lives. It is simply too much at once. Let us gain full hold here before we choose another adventure.”

The King remained silent as his servant finally brought him his wine and then he waited for him to leave. He took a slow drink and then placed the goblet down, “I spent a lifetime finding this realm sound, my Lord. If we are to rule it, then We are to rule it. In all things. And my choice is to right every wrong of my cousin’s reign.”

“Understand I do...” the Earl attempted to pacify but Richard cut him off.

“I do not think that you do, sir,” the King rounded his desk and stood as tall as he might, “Your foreign policy does not exist. Only mine. And though I have appreciated your efforts for these many years, I will not have you running a different policy than the one that I desire. Speak to the French, the Burgundians or anyone else that you may find but you will tell to them my words and only my words. Is that clear enough for you?”

Warwick bowed his head after the dressing down, “Of course.”

“Good,” the King moved back to his wine, “Now...unless there is more, I have much work to do.”

The Earl was about to leave but stopped and turned with a slight smile, “Only that I would offer sincere and joyful happiness that you are once more with a grandchild.”

“Yes, indeed,” Richard returned to his desk and did not look up as he sat, “Lillibet has had a son. Let us hope that the child is more my daughter and not the grandchild of Suffolk.”

Warwick gave nod, “To be certain, Your Grace.”

As he turned to leave, Richard called after, “Though you would tell my son in law Pole that I have wish to see him. It is time that he held his father’s title as Duke of Suffolk.”

The Earl narrowed his brow in irritation before making a smile as he turned back, “As you desire, Your Grace.”

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

I wonder how long until Warwick changes sides...

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

He can certainly try but that would work about as well as Oxford or Exeter. The Queen is the real holdout power now, not Henry, and Warwick would as soon be executed by her as anything.

He doesn't gain anything by betraying Richard and trying to get Henry back on the throne. Sure, he could do it anyway because he feels slighted or convinced himself he could do better, but it would be a bad move...and it sounds like he doesn't actually want to fight anymore.

 

[HistoryDude]

Deliberately provoking the Scots is an interesting move, but, if it deals with Margaret, it's probably not a terrible idea. How much does Richard want to punish the Scots? Does he wish to seize territory? Force indemnities? Both?

France looks divided enough that delaying the war there shouldn't harm England too much...

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Deliberately provoking the Scots is an interesting move, but, if it deals with Margaret, it's probably not a terrible idea. How much does Richard want to punish the Scots? Does he wish to seize territory? Force indemnities? Both?

France looks divided enough that delaying the war there shouldn't harm England too much...

Much better in the long term to deal with Scotland. Esepcially with that woman there. And it's rhe right tike to do it. Scotland is at the start of centuries of decline, and unlike OTL, there is no France to balance that out to protect it. England should strike now, annex it all, fix up Ireland and then go back to France in a decade with a secure domain back home, no more pretenders, and no enemies in the backgarden.