The Way Forward, an update from the team behind Cities: Skylines

[ElMacro]

"The very first thing we’re doing is to compensate those who purchased Beach Properties. We will change the pack to be a free addition to the game, refund it to the extent possible, and provide additional content within the Ultimate Edition. Unfortunately, it will not be possible to offer refunds for Ultimate Edition buyers. This is due to the distribution of the Ultimate Edition across digital and physical storefronts, which create significant complexities for executing a partial refund. We realize that this is far from ideal, especially given the dedication those who have stayed with us since launch have shown. We are committed to repaying that loyalty, and therefore, we will compensate Ultimate Edition holders by adding 3 Creator Packs and 3 Radio Stations which, together, sum up to a value of USD 39.99. This solution hopefully ensures that you, regardless of purchase method, feel you receive fair compensation."

Congratulations! After reading this paragraph from your little blurb, you have finally killed my passion for city building.

Seriously. I've lost my passion now. From the original SimCity to modern-day CS1 (Still not fixed), I've played city builders for more time than some people have been alive. This paragraph sealed it for me.

I'm not even going to focus any of the things that I have already seen from you. I'm 53, I know how The World works. I can see through carefully worded veils attempting to cover up lies/deceit/greed, etc. Over the decades, I have watched and learned.

Anyways, 2 points come about from this paragraph of yours:

1. You are offering refunds for the DLC (Which previously was finished, then not finished but you are working on it, then finished and released, and now you claim that it was rushed and made by other people?). So, why can't/couldn't you refund people that wanted a refund for the game after they first purchased it? I completely understand the 'can't separate DLC purchase from Ultimate Purchase' aspect. However, refunding the Ultimate Edition is EXACTLY the same thing as refunding a DLC. "Significant complexities for executing a partial refund" makes sense. But explain to people (without lying) how you can refund the full purchase of the DLC, but not the full game? I'd love to hear the explanation/reasoning on that one. You are refunding a digital transaction. BILLIONS of digital transactions are refunded yearly, but not for the video game industry! Nice.

2. You mention no compensation for the console users. Why? Yes, they had their money refunded because of how MS and Sony do business. Oh, wait. I just contradicted myself, didn't I? I suppose there IS an actual example of a video game refund happening because of a broken promise. Silly me. Anyways, what compensation is mentioned for them? None. Just because they already got their money back doesn't mean that they don't deserve future compensation. Obviously it does in your eyes.

I'm going to end this here. I don't want to waste any more of my time than I already have. Not once, in my entire Life did I ever believe that my passion for city building could die. NOT ONCE! Turns out, they just hadn't used enough bullets yet.

PS: My humblest apologies to the YouTubers that I have supported in the past. Unfortunately I cannot enjoy your content anymore, as it would only break my heart further. Thank You! all for all of your hard work and entertainment throughout the decades! I really appreciate everything that you have done for YOUR Community. (Overcharged Egg was my favourite!)

Sincerely,
ImanIdgit (Uninstaller of every CO and Paradox title that I own. Owned, rather.)

New contender for the most over-dramatic thing I've read all year. I'm not sure what you tried to achieve with this post.

Why would you let one botched release take away your enjoyment of many other games? Hell, you didn't even say It's the state of the game itself but one paragraph on a compensation policy (A generally well received one at that).

Say what you want about the game but It's a bit ridiculous to blame CO for 'killing your passion'. Plenty of other great games in the genre if you look hard enough, I suggest forget about CS2 and play another game instead of crying that you can't enjoy the genre anymore...

P.S. People could get a full refund at the time of release through each stores refund policy (2 hours play / 14 days for steam etc.). If they play 300 hours then decide they don't like it, then that is on them.

P.P.S. why would console players be owed compensation if they got a full refund?

 

[TenzoZA]

Admitting ones mistake is the first step in correcting them. And this coming from the CEO means a lot. That being said, we all know actions speak louder than words.

"Looking ahead, we also want to make immediate and meaningful changes in the way we approach the game’s development and our communication with you."

First step in making immediate and meaningful changes to your communication with us the community is increasing dev visibility and engagement on the forum.
-Current thread posts: 182
-Current thread dev responses: 3
Your devs are currently replying to less than 2% of posts? Does not seem to be very immediate or meaningful to me.

You also mention making meaningful and immediate changes to the way you approach the game's development. I 100% agree with this statement and can provide an example of how game development resources were mismanaged. Instead of using Cities 1 as a building block for something as simple as keybinds, they instead decided to completely redevelop keybinds for Cities 2. Cities 2 has less keybinds than Cities 1. And of the few keybinds that Cities 2 does have, some of them are complete useless for example the 'Continue Tutorial' and 'Previous Tutorial' keybinds. One of the most glaring examples is a keybind for building roads, and zoning, in a game where that is a massive part of city building.

Lastly I would just like to leave you on this note. You announce that "We will change the Beach Properties pack to be a free addition to the game". You could have done this already and made the announcement with the change going live at the same time. Missed opportunity and the community doesn't even have a date of when it will be made free to play.

 

[Cities: Skylines Official]

I know yall have a lot on your plates already but is there any info on Geforce Now users? Can't use code mods still, and i keep saying it would be great if we could upload screenshots taken with the screenshot tool through pdx mods or something. Considering the requirements for running this game, I can only really practically play on geforce now, and I think there are a lot of us out there with mid/low range pcs who would appreciate some consideration paid to this platform. Just want to say that, despite its problems, Steam workshop does work on geforce now.

We have been working with Nvidia to work towards a solution for this, we would love to see mods on GFN! While we can't provide any update on this at the moment, know that we want to make it happen!

 

[TheMasterBlade]

Lastly I would just like to leave you on this note. You announce that "We will change the Beach Properties pack to be a free addition to the game". You could have done this already and made the announcement with the change going live at the same time. Missed opportunity and the community doesn't even have a date of when it will be made free to play.

They mentioned in the FAQ's in the other thread that the beach content will be with the next patch in around 2 weeks so fingers crossed we get it then

 

[Cities: Skylines Official]

First step in making immediate and meaningful changes to your communication with us the community is increasing dev visibility and engagement on the forum.
-Current thread posts: 182
-Current thread dev responses: 3
Your devs are currently replying to less than 2% of posts? Does not seem to be very immediate or meaningful to me.

While most of the comments under the thread have not yet received an answer, we are liking and will answer some more as more questions have come in during the night and during Friday!

Lastly I would just like to leave you on this note. You announce that "We will change the Beach Properties pack to be a free addition to the game". You could have done this already and made the announcement with the change going live at the same time. Missed opportunity and the community doesn't even have a date of when it will be made free to play.

We would have loved to be able to do this, and it takes a longer time than most would guess to be able to send out an update, and we thought it was important to announce the updated timeline and inform about our decision on the refund ASAP.

 

[Neshura]

and we thought it was important to announce the updated timeline and inform about our decision on the refund ASAP.

Given the (at the time) open post about the accidental draft leak I can absolutely understand that sentiment

 

[Cities: Skylines Official]

? Will the next creator packs (including those given in compensation) have a similar content/price ratio than Beach Properties? If so, it's true that 39.99 is probably overpriced. 19.99 would be ideal, 29.99 understandable. 39.99 feels like too much (as other people said, with that you can buy a full game). Howether if they include more content than Beach Properties, then it could be great.

We haven't announced the Creator Packs content yet or their price; we think, and hope that you will agree when we are able to announce it, that you will feel it is fair compensation.

? Speaking of those creator packs, will you stop to advertise different levels of the same asset as multiple assets? This felt particularly misleading to a lot of us, so I strongly hope it was the last time.

This is how we count the amount of assets since they are technically different in their values and their visual appearance with different props and surfaces. While this is unlikely to change, we can strive to clarify what we mean by that in the future!

? I strongly hope Paradox & CO will not try to use the Advisory Meeting as PR by trying to control the narrative or censoring free speech from players representatives. If it becomes just another marketing tool, a lot of players, myself included, will most likely be disapointed again. We expect honesty and transparency.

? Please no professional influencers as "players representatives". It's not a matter of who exactly, Biffa, CPP or whoever would be more or less the same. Please choose actual players, not youtubers.

So do we! The aim is not to use them "as PR", but to make both them and the community feel more seen and listened to by having more representation that's able to speak directly to the team. We will not exclude large influencers when we feel that they have great opportunities to collect so much feedback from their community, but that does not mean that we will only have influencers on this panel. The comments about this have proven that that is something that the community wants, and we will work on trying to facilitate this.

? Can we expect more engagement from CO on bug reports and suggestions threads?

While CO is hard at work and doesn't have the ability to interact as much as they used to on the forums, we've recently (like this week) set up a process that should allow for much more interaction than there currently is!

? When can we expect the next free patch/update? (no need for an exact date if you don't have one, but an estimation would be great)

As mentioned in the FAQ, we have the next update in about two weeks!

? Will you stop adding trees and other map-detailing resources to the next Creator Packs? A lot of people have clearly expressed why this is a problem, and would appreciate to know if you understand and agree

In the past (for Cities: Skylines(1)), we have always added the trees to the free update alongside the Creator Packs, and we have noticed that this is something that we should continue with.

? Following the "no beach" drama, will the game include proper beaches someday? If so, is this already planned or not yet?

That is not something that we can share, but we will be much more clear in our marketing what future Asset Packs will include and what they wont include.

? And while I'm at it, any hint on a estimation for bikes and stairs?

Also not something that we can share, but we can share that bikes are high up on the list of features we'd like to add!

 

[Cities: Skylines Official]

And I still see no mention of an expected timeframe or even effort to include modern upscaling methods in the still heaviest to run game I have ever seen. Is that altogether abandoned?

Not abandoned at all, we're working with this internally and with our partners to try to use all available optimization opportunities!

 

[Cities: Skylines Official]

Finally taking some responsibility, pushing DLC and putting focus on fixing the base game! This is what players want to see. I've said it since the release, this game needs 6 to 12 more months development time at minimum.

But wow, the technical side/ code and optimization issues must be insanely bad! They didn't use the word, but basically what we have here is going back to a EA situation. It's still up in the air how CS:2 will turn out but this step could possibly save the game. But oh boy, does CO have their work cut out for them!

@CO & PD: You've talked the talk. Now I hope you can walk the walk.

We will walk our walkiest!

 

[Cities: Skylines Official]

Humble suggestion for which YouTuber select for the brainstorming meeting (not sponsoring CS2 and dropped as soon as it was not playable, but however with vast experience on many city buildings games which may bring fresh air):

- IlGattoSulTubo
https://m.twitch.tv/ilgattosultubo https://youtube.com/@ilGattoSulTubo?si=bi3Q5jB-k6R-c90J

- ParliamodiVideogiochi

Parliamo di Videogiochi

Benvenuti su PARLIAMO DI VIDEOGIOCHI, che si parli di Giochi da Sala anni 70 o Realtà Virtuale, che si trattino Giochi Seri o Giochi Brutti, il videogioco è bello e va esplorato in ogni sua forma e aspetto!

youtube.com

Thank you!

It's always harder for us to find creators outside of the languages we speak, so thanks for this!

 

[Cities: Skylines Official]

I and others do appreciate the transparency shown finally. However, having been a console edition ultimate early access purchaser who wasn't offered any compensation for the handling of the release, I'm finding the offer of free DLCs a bit of a kick in the teeth. Unless of course it is going to also apply to the console community when you finally do get it released, which I think we deserve at least!

The three Creator Packs and three Radio Stations will be made available for all Ultimate Edition owners, the console included.

 

[Cities: Skylines Official]

Now we need more mods to show up like the traffic lights that for me are essential (which were in Thunderstorm mods) and the core game being balanced and fixed.

While we can't make mod creators upload their mods to PDXMods, we have seen many mods transferred there from Thunderstorm. Hopefully, all your faves will arrive one day!

 

[Imp0815]

Really well handled and right decisions are put forward- I'm ready to step into the game when its done! I wish you great success and i'm looking forward to the community advisory board results. Will these be public or just the results?

 

[Olanov]

As somebody who's looked from the sidelines, loved CS1, even with its flaws, followed CS2 with healthy skepticism, it's been sad to see what's been going on up to this point. It looks like there's a really decent foundation for a city builder but it has been held back by less than ideal design, marketing choices/priorities and host of technical issues.

While my general outlook has been one of suspicion and distrust, this post (OP) so far feels like a wind of change from the previous communications and I truly do hope to see you all craft this into the game we all wanna see it become. For all the faults I don't expect the issues are for lack of trying, clearly there's a lot of effort.

I'll continue to follow with renewed interest and hold a good thought for everybody working on this. While I undestand the frustration of paying customers, I also sympathize with crafting something and having it miss the mark.

 

[gluedtomatoes]

Finally, something brilliant, we were very worried for this game and the beach properties including only 4 palm trees and residential content was just bad, JUST BAD! Thank you colossal order, hope you guys get a better reputation and it doesnt go bad with Cities In Motion series!

 

[Cities: Skylines Official]

Also, why do we now have a new "Cities Skylines Official" account, replacing the dead silent co_avanya and co_martsu Colossal Order accounts. This new account, users cant view the message history to easily see official responses given to the community? Its been disabled, any other user account on these forums has this enabled by default, why?

Those are the personal accounts of CO employees, and this is the collaborative account for the Cities team. We will look into why you're unable to see our message history and fix that ASAP!

 

[Cities: Skylines Official]

How about the Region pack?
Can it be also count as the Content Creator Packs

The region packs are not the same as Content Packs. The region packs are awaiting the Asset Editor and will then be made public (for free as promised of course) on PDXMods.

 

[anton95]

Wow so many dev responses. I'm honestly very pleasantly surprised. Thanks a lot for putting in the work on these replies! Let's keep the dialogue going and make CS2 the game it deserves to be. Together.

 

[MohawkWolfo98]

The region packs are not the same as Content Packs. The region packs are awaiting the Asset Editor and will then be made public (for free as promised of course) on PDXMods.

What are the ETAs for the delivery of all the promises you and the CO team have made, such as the looking into "hard mode"? When can we expect these promises to be delivered please? We have had so much of it since release and it’s abit tiring to not se concrete action.

Can we have a roadmap or something to help us understand what sort of timeframes to expect, what’s going to be worked on first? Trust in CO is not high, in part because there are so many things being "looked into" that have not been delivered. How about fixes to TAA as well as the simulation aspect of gameplay?

 

[The Aziz]

This is how we count the amount of assets since they are technically different in their values and their visual appearance with different props and surfaces. While this is unlikely to change, we can strive to clarify what we mean by that in the future!

That's very much appreciated, but the problem remains as it is. Out of 5 levels per lot size, there's only 3 actually different buildings, even considering different sets of props added or changed. Leading to a very boring neighborhoods even as they level up. When not hand painted to get a variety of different lot sizes, it often ends up like this

While it's fine for communal blocks and commercial buildings, single houses do not have enough variety. EU_ResidentialLow01_L1_2x4 uses the same house prop as 2x5, 2x6, and Low02_._3x4, 3x5, 3x6. The rest have 3 reused max. Same for NA versions. So for 13 different lot sizes there's 5 building props for a level. Not to mention, when given the max possible length of 6 tiles, the game will try to fill it lengthwise, so in reality we mostly end up with 2x6, 3x6(01 and 02) and 4x6. Four different assets (two of which use the same building prop) out of 13. Boring.