The Way Forward, an update from the team behind Cities: Skylines

[anton95]

The regional packs were probably supposed to be a marketing move for paradox mods. Which would have worked if asset importing were available at the launch of paradox mods.

At this point they should probably just pivot and release them as free DLC.

 

[TboneTurner]

Why am I unable to access assets from Beach Properties at the moment?
We intended for players to have access to the Beach Properties assets until we could incorporate them into the Base Game with the upcoming patch. Unfortunately, due to variations in the packages purchased, some entitlements are currently inactive and causing an issue where the player cannot access the assets. We are looking for a temporary fix for this, but the issue may continue until the patch is released. Said patch is in the works, and will soon move to testing and then certification. We aim to deliver this update to you within 2-3 weeks, earlier if possible.

This started on Friday. So since this was added today, that will be 3+ weeks until I can play as so much of my city used these assets.

All this because you rushed to make the worst reviewed product on Steam magically disappear.

I'm done with this game, and any game you make in the future. I would normally say at least put the money you got from me to good use but you aren't even doing that.

 

[TripleAgent]

This started on Friday. So since this was added today, that will be 3+ weeks until I can play as so much of my city used these assets.

All this because you rushed to make the worst reviewed thing on Steam magically disappear.

I'm done with this game, and any game you make in the future. I would normally say at least put the money you got from me to good use but you aren't even doing that.

I can't tell what's worse, that they made this sloppy move in the first place in a desperate attempt to quickly remove the low reviews, or that it's somehow going to take them 2-3 weeks to fix a basic problem to put assets in the game that were ALREADY in the game!

Not to bothered about the buildings, but I'm sure a LOT of people took advantage of the four palm trees.

 

[Licenturion]

The contracts are between the creators and Paradox, so I can't comment on whether they would allow for such a change. I imagine that they differ in some ways from the Creator Pack contracts. But if the Region Packs were to be implemented as Creator Packs instead of being released to Paradox Mods, then it would require development time from us. 2500 is not an insignificant amount of assets to implement.

Thank you for taking the time to answer this question. This raises another question about the 2500 number

Are these the total number of unique growable assets or is the same asset rotated, with an extra balcony or another roof color counted as 1 extra asset everytime?

I am asking this because the marketing for beach DLC was very deceptive with those numbers, making things way larger then it was in reality leading to you know what….

It may be good to set expectations right for the 2500 assets as well, which are for a lot of the community the holy grail and saviour of the game short term.

 

[TetraDax]

Two or three weks, for what should be an easy hotfix?

Frankly, your project management is shocking. I do not have any trust in CO knowing what the hell they are doing. If you take weeks for an easy hotfix, how should we have any trust that you will be able to deliver on the fixes to much more complex and important systems?

Systems, mind you, that were promised at launch six months ago, and that people paid for?

 

[The Aziz]

I'm done with this game, and any game you make in the future

CO or Paradox? Cuz one isn't going to attempt anything new at least in this decade, pdx will try to sell you another barebones title filled with dlcs tho.

It may be good to set expectations right for the 2500 assets as well, which are for a lot of the community the holy grail and saviour of the game short term.

Tbh even if that 2500 is cut by 3 (building levels) and then by 5 (lot sizes) it will still probably have more than the base game has to offer.
In fact I'm going to go and count the unique assets right now.

 

[WiSimler]

6 months of words.

If I was in your position, Id be so ashamed to tell my customers, suck it up, well fix it when we decide to release the next patch, when we feel like it. Thats pretty much your response, but in a more polite use of words.

Keep cool and ... wait.
What is your problem guys? There are so many other games out there, so few time to play them all. Just play another game for a year and then come back to CL2 to have a look, what has been reached in tne meantime. If It's good enough, you start playing then, if not, you will wait another six month. At the end there is a CL2 we like.
It just need patience and feedback.

 

[TripleAgent]

Keep cool and ... wait.
What is your problem guys? There are so many other games out there, so few time to play them all. Just play another game for a year and then come back to CL2 to have a look, what has been reached in tne meantime. If It's good enough, you start playing then, if not, you will wait another six month. At the end there is a CL2 we like.
It just need patience and feedback.

I'll be happy to wait once they give me a full refund. Until then they have my money and have gone 6 months with almost no concrete progress to meet their marketing claims and timeline and asset mods seem just as broken and far away as ever, so I'm not exactly inclined to wait more.

If they'd offered refunds in October/November I think the community would be in a much better shape. But they didn't, so here we are.

 

[Civ5rako]

Keep cool and ... wait.
What is your problem guys? There are so many other games out there, so few time to play them all. Just play another game for a year and then come back to CL2 to have a look, what has been reached in tne meantime. If It's good enough, you start playing then, if not, you will wait another six month. At the end there is a CL2 we like.
It just need patience and feedback.

Unfortunately that's exactly the attitude which allows game companies to release unfinished games and take their time bringing them to the advertised level.

Meanwhile, as others have told you already, they don't hesitate enjoying your money though.

 

[TboneTurner]

Keep cool and ... wait.
What is your problem guys? There are so many other games out there, so few time to play them all. Just play another game for a year and then come back to CL2 to have a look, what has been reached in tne meantime. If It's good enough, you start playing then, if not, you will wait another six month. At the end there is a CL2 we like.
It just need patience and feedback.

I'm not a lending company. When I pay for something to work I actually expect it to work.

Attitudes like yours are why these companies can get away with INTENTIONALLY releasing these horrendously broken games for an obvious cash grab.

 

[TboneTurner]

CO or Paradox? Cuz one isn't going to attempt anything new at least in this decade, pdx will try to sell you another barebones title filled with dlcs tho.

Both, and during those 10 years, do you not think CO will try to sell more mediocre DLCs like they did with CS1?

Not another dime.

 

[WiSimler]

I'll be happy to wait once they give me a full refund. Until then they have my money and have gone 6 months with almost no concrete progress to meet their marketing claims and timeline and asset mods seem just as broken and far away as ever, so I'm not exactly inclined to wait more.

If they'd offered refunds in October/November I think the community would be in a much better shape. But they didn't, so here we are.

They can't do it without your (and my) money. That's the reality nowadays.
So we have to decide: Do we want CL2? Yes? So we have to throw in the money.
These are not the old days, where you could buy a small and complete game with only few bugs directly from the game company.
Times are different nowadays.

I'm not a lending company. When I pay for something to work I actually expect it to work.

Attitudes like yours are why these companies can get away with INTENTIONALLY releasing these horrendously broken games for an obvious cash grab

Your life would be much more relaxed if you learn to see it like that.
Especting completed games on release day is a romantic dream of the past. You won't get that nowadays. Not a complex game like CS2.
You're right with your fear that some companies might go to far with this kind of publishing content. But if you want have stopped behaviour like this you should have started your complaint and action 1998. Today it's to late.
Nowadays a company simply don't have the choice. Either it works right from the beginning, or they have to struggle to survive. Mark option B for CL2.

 

[TboneTurner]

Especting completed games on release day is a romantic dream of the past. You won't get that nowadays. Not a complex game like CS2.

I hope you're just trolling because if you're serious, that's just dumb.

It's only a romantic dream when people like you accept this as normal, acceptable, and perfectly fine.

Nobody expected CS2 to be perfect, bug-free release. What we didn't expect was what we've gotten for not only the past 6 months, but for the foreseeable future.

I'm glad you're cool with that. I'm not.

 

[The Aziz]

- 192 unique buildings excluding building upgrades, but including all service and signature buildings. As in: the buildings that don't level up.

- The game claims there are 85 EU Residential Low buildings. In fact there are 14 different building props in all that. In one case it is very much the same prop but extended here and there to appear bigger.
- 85 NA Low Res, similar story here, but it's 15 different, the distribution across levels changed slightly.
- Low rent buildings. The game says there's 155 but... it gets so much worse. While to be honest I can't blame anyone here because blocks like this tend to look similar across the world, there's just seven of them. Yes the similar ones differ in number of floors and parking spots but they're basically the same. So there was basically 20-30 same-ish looking assets.

- EU/NA High Res - was done right. some of the assets appear twice, but there is plenty of uniques. Out of 75 (each region), there are 33 different assets.

- EU/NA waterfront (for those who still have it) - out of 90 per region, I counted 30 different assets. So in fact that's TWICE as many Low Res buildings as the base game has to offer.
- EU medium row. out of 41, 11 unique. But I don't know why they even bothered with different versions when...

yeah those are different assets according to the files. Even the backyards are identical.
- EU medium res. 21 out of 75. Technically not bad but it's a textbook example of sameness. There are 15 lot sizes, 5 levels. Of those 5 levels there are 3 buildings - lvl1, 2 then 3, 4 then 5. But there were two, sometimes 3 lot sizes where the asset was the same.

So far, 386 buildings. It's 2AM, I need sleep.

 

[wilson_komachi]

The short explanation is that the Editor needs to import and package asset files in a way that does not require having Unity installed and access to the project itself, and the file format needs to be future-proof so assets created with the Editor are functional down the line too. As the Region Packs are to be released on Paradox Mods, they need this before they can released, while we can directly implement assets for DLCs.

While working on the asset import and saving, we've encountered some frustrating technical issues, that have caused the work to take significantly longer than we had expected.

For me it sounds just a critical planning failure since modding is one of your main feature.
And now it's makes me feel it can't be solved.

 

[alcarcalimo2364]

I'll look into adding some examples to the wiki, but for low density residential I believe our models average around 8000 triangles and we tried to avoid going over 15000 triangles for the most complex ones. Complexity of course depends on the style of buildings you're making - some architectural styles naturally result in lower or higher triangle counts, but as a general rule of thumb, we recommend having most of the buildings in a zone type around the same average with a few high or low outliers. I hope that helps for now.

Thanks this is really helpful! If we could get a rough estimate for other zoning types on the wiki that would be great as well!

 

[co_avanya]

Thank you for taking the time to answer this question. This raises another question about the 2500 number

Are these the total number of unique growable assets or is the same asset rotated, with an extra balcony or another roof color counted as 1 extra asset everytime?

I am asking this because the marketing for beach DLC was very deceptive with those numbers, making things way larger then it was in reality leading to you know what….

It may be good to set expectations right for the 2500 assets as well, which are for a lot of the community the holy grail and saviour of the game short term.

I don't have that answer sorry. We're not directly involved in the Region Packs, so I'm not sure what has been created (I'm also very curious to see them!), but if I were to make a guess, I'd imagine that the marketing team at Paradox have counted them the same way they counted assets for Beach Properties (and all the DLCs for the original Cities: Skylines for that matter), so I'd set my expectations accordingly. Though I'm sure we'll get some more peeks at what's coming when the asset import is ready.

 

[raf8655]

Non ho questa risposta, mi dispiace. Non siamo direttamente coinvolti nei Region Pack, quindi non sono sicuro di cosa sia stato creato (sono anche molto curioso di vederli!), ma se dovessi fare un'ipotesi, immagino che il marketing Il team di Paradox li ha contati nello stesso modo in cui contavano le risorse per Beach Properties (e tutti i DLC per l'originale Cities: Skylines del resto), quindi imposterei le mie aspettative di conseguenza. Anche se sono sicuro che daremo qualche sbirciatina in più a ciò che accadrà quando l'importazione delle risorse sarà pronta.

And when will it be ready?

What stage is the work at?

Will we have them by the end of Q2, June?












Thanks for any response

 

[The Aziz]

The description of dlc said 30 unique growables per region which checks out with what I counted.
There are 8 regions in the pack, so that would be roughly 300-something buildings in each. There's 10 building types. That would be 30 assets per type, not that bad. Didn't include uniques like service buildings (I wonder if they are coming because that would be a revolution on its own) and signatures.

 

[WiSimler]

I hope you're just trolling because if you're serious, that's just dumb.

It's only a romantic dream when people like you accept this as normal, acceptable, and perfectly fine.

Nobody expected CS2 to be perfect, bug-free release. What we didn't expect was what we've gotten for not only the past 6 months, but for the foreseeable future.

I'm glad you're cool with that. I'm not.

No, I'm not trolling.
I have to be cool with that. I had to learn to be cool with that!

A good school is kickstarter.
I'm backing projects there for years.
That changed my mindset.
And I learned a lot.
You know kickstarter? "Read the project-plans of a fresh company, estimate the probability of their success, decide to trust or not, give money, then wait and forget. If you can't afford, don't do it" (the two last steps are important, since your anger will be enourmous, when the problems occur)
I have a personal success-rate of 87%. With many technical projects in the list. That's not bad. My longest wait for a at least very satisfying technical product, worth 2600 $, was 5 years. Not 5 years at all but 5 years delay! I learned to be patient. And I learned to set trust in people.

I trust CO.
They seem to have massive technical problems, unforeseen and expensive. They partially try to hide it (of course)
And they seem to have had financial reasons which forced them to release CL2 in 2023.

So I have to decide: Do I want to have a running, joyful CL2 somewhere in the future?
Or do I want my cash back, risk CO will die, and I will never see a completed CL2?

How much did I pay? 75 Euro.
For a niche game. Not to much, even without any additional content packs.
I just have to accept that things grow more expansive these days, after they had been extremely cheap all the years (see further below).
The content I got so far isn't the big treasure (as it was in Valheim), but it is enough. And I know, there's more to come in the future.
The moment the mod thing runs smoothly the game will "explode".

Would I be dissapointed if I loose those 76 Euro? Yes, at least.
Would I trust and try it anyway? Yes. I decided that the moment I gave the money.
And I was sure (!) that moment, that the game was not ready for at least two years.
Like in kickstarter I decided to support and wait (years).
Why?
Because the business outside kickstarter runs similiar to inside kickstarter nowadays. Paid "early access" with or without real access is a essential step tpday. The financial backbones are planned that way. If you don't you won't survive as a smaller company.

I believe CO will survive and will solve the problems.
I just have to pay now and play later.
(Okay, I have to playtest a little bit at the end of the year 2024 to give the needed feedback).


_
My example for software prices: Maybe you know Sid Myers Railroad Tycoon.
It was released 1990 for the price of 120 DM (61 EUR)!
This price would be in 2023, including inflation, roughly 140 Euro.
With a printed book, yes, but that's the price!
Without any content packs or other bling bling. Without marketing on tiktok, youtube, twitch, without servers for instant patch download. Waiting for the next monthly gamestar print to get the patch on CD (additional 5 EUR).
Let that sink in for a moment.
Cities Skylines is a niche game like Railroas Tycoon those days. Successfull but niche.
So you can see, how much money Paradox/Colossal Order would need.
They got much less than that. The cut of Paradox is bigger and the bank gave only credit based on that expectation. The gap needs (much) earlier release and selling of DLC.