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When are you going to do the ones for the previous feedbacks?
I probably won't do them if I've already done it last time. In the end I've provided the resources already, and then made interpretations from those resources.
E.g. I haven't made it for Great Britain yet, so I'll definitely still make that one when we eventually get that one.
I'll make some specific comments if I significantly disagree with specific choices (like I did now on Yemen region).

It takes several hours to review a single map, so I'm not keen to sink another 100+ hours for the final fidgety details they probably won't include if they haven't integrated it at this point.
I notice the devs have definitely respectfully considered my opinions each time, but they probably disagree on the extent that I'd do it.
Game balance is probably a factor why some mountain ranges are downsized and some low hills are upsized, so I respectthat.

I feel the IRL topography should be put in place first, and then modifiers should be tweaked to fit the gameplay arc, but that's just my opinion (sitting conveniently in my cozy chair sipping coffee and not knowing jack shit on how the current game balance actually is :p)

I'm definitely going to (attempt to) make a topography expansion mod anyway, and who knows if that actually ends up working well with the game's balance it can serve as inspiration for a later patch (one can dream). So I'll have to review everything AGAIN at game launch (as more lcoations will be added, redrawn, etc..). But at that point I'll be able to use the game files to enhance my analysis semi-automatically, instead of having to georeference everything again and again by hand.
 
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Yes, we have this issue because they are generated from the locations; so they add a dynamic 'al' prefix because of coming from that location, which is added to the scripted localization 'Al' on those locations that start with it. We're looking towards solving this behavior.
I think some of the forms are wrong too, eg I believe it should be al-Tanomi instead of al-Tanomahi, al-Yamami instead of al-Yamamahi, al-Bijadi or maybe Bijadawi instead of al-Bijayadiyahi. Any Arabs feel free to correct me here
 
I have the exact opposite opinion :p I'm not literally becoming dizzy of course, but I do find it harder to read.

As the map mode uses color to convey information, the blues and browns are simply interfering with that, as those parts need to "shut up".
The wastelands will usually be situated on the fringes of the market map mode, where the colors wil be darker and desaturated already anyway.

How about a dark/neutral gray (#424242) for wastelands, and slightly brighter tones for the actual market access maps?
Idk, sth like this: (very crude illustration of what I mean).

In any case, the locations/wastelands that don't participate in the map mode should be a neutral, noninvasive color imo.
If you don't feel that it might be related to your colour blindness (I'm pretty sure you spoke about it in earlier posts), but in general pitch black among light colours creates effect of a black hole (it would be different if colours around were e.g. dark blue). I could give you some references, but I'm afraid they're mostly in Polish ;)

And as somebody with related health problems, I'm willing to believe that people can get dizzy from absolutely anything, so if somebody says so I treat it seriously.

Your solution is definitely better than black, but I would prefer it a bit lighter still, and maybe to add faint lines between sea locations, to avoid that feeling that it's floating in the void.
 
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Can you change the colour of Yemen to the same shad of red they have in EU4(totally unrelated game oc), I feel like it would stands out so much in the region since the colour they have right now make them look like a vassal of the Mamluks
Screenshot_20250310_163146_Chrome.jpg
 
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What about the Sultanate of Asir and the Sultanate of Hali? Makkah has not yet conquered these two countries?
Countries (1).png

 
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Oman should be a theocracy since it was an Imamate
View attachment 1263748
It's complicated, there were 2 overlapping "states", the Imamate and the Nabhani kings. In 1337, only the Nabhani kings held any real power over the land, but that would change around the 15th century when the Imamate was restored by the Jabrids.
Screenshot_20250310-153212.png


Imo, it's best represented as a flavour event or having the Imamate as a building-based country
 
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On a side note: Arabia is one of the places where I look forward to seeing the "control" system in action the most!
 
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If you don't feel that it might be related to your colour blindness (I'm pretty sure you spoke about it in earlier posts), but in general pitch black among light colours creates effect of a black hole (it would be different if colours around were e.g. dark blue). I could give you some references, but I'm afraid they're mostly in Polish ;)

And as somebody with related health problems, I'm willing to believe that people can get dizzy from absolutely anything, so if somebody says so I treat it seriously.

Your solution is definitely better than black, but I would prefer it a bit lighter still, and maybe to add faint lines between sea locations, to avoid that feeling that it's floating in the void.
Definitely not color blindness related this time around ^^ (this is about brightness and contrasts).

In any case, no-one is ever alone in their opinions, so I'm pretty sure there's a compromise between both of us, as we both have the issue that the background is 'too loud'. For you the pitch black is bothersome, for me the blue and browns just add information that shouldn't be there.

I feel a neutral gray tone would be a good way to approach it, even if it is indeed even lighter. Thanks for the exchange!
 
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It's complicated, there were 2 overlapping "states", the Imamate and the Nabhani kings. In 1337, only the Nabhani kings held any real power over the land, but that would change around the 15th century when the Imamate was restored by the Jabrids.
View attachment 1263755

Imo, it's best represented as a flavour event or having the Imamate as a building-based country
A building based country would be nice as there's barely any outside of Europe
 
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Surprised to see no location additions, but its hard to argue that Arabia doesn't already have a great density given its population. The tag border changes look really cool tho!


I do have some suggestions on which locations to add, taking from the current wastelands in places we know to have been inhabited with notable settlements - either caravan stops or fishing towns. This would help better represent the South Arabian language, add further incense producing locations to the Incense Coast, as well as reduce the location gap on the Southern coast and add some depth to it in places (so its not all just one location wide strip)- though I imagine most of these would have a rather low population
IMG_20250310_170210.jpg


1. Dhank
Surrounded by many wadis/river valleys, this area was almost certainly settled during the period. The 19th century battle of Dhank, though outside the period, led to the unification of Oman and Muscat. Among the products of the area is Honey, so that would also be a very interesting tradegood to represent.

2. Duqm
A small fishing port before the oil boom, but still provides an additional location on the southern coast and shortens the corridor

3. Haima/Al-Ajaiz
Poorly populated before modern times (today its the capital of the governorate) due to a lack of water, but still interesting to represent due to the later existence local Harsusi language, a relative of the Mehri, which was historically more widespread across Southern Arabia (but gets kinda screwed here due to much of its spoken region being wastelands). Due to this permanent settlement only occurring in the 19th century, this is the least important addition

4. Al Halaniyyah
A settled island near the coast, largest of the Khuriya Muriya islands known since Ancient Greek times and later gifted by the Sultan to Queen Victoria, the stretch of the coast close to them (including the fishing village of Sharbithat) spoke Shehri/Jibbali, another southern Arabic language. Later extensively for guano, but fishing was generally its main industry

5. Saadha
Splitting of a small part of Mirbat to connect to Al Halaniyyah, a small Incense producing village where most inhabitants lived in caves, like in much of Southern Arabia. Another Shehri speaking area, so would also be of the Mehri culture

6. Thumrait
Going a bit inland in this most populated part of Dhofar, Thumrait was an important caravan stop and produced Incense and Fruit. Another Mehri location, probably the most populous of the locations I'm suggesting and should definitely be added.

7. Shisr/Ubar
Shisr was an inland oasis and trading post (mostly for Incense, of course) that many connect to the lost cities of Ubar, or Iram of the Pillars, the Atlantis of the Sands, one of the most famous "lost cities" in the world. Seems like another really cool location to represent, especially as it would further represent Mehri as well

8. Al Abr
An ancient fort and caravan stop that served as the base of several tribes thanks to its many wadis. Much like Dhank, I don't see why it wouldn't be represented as it's close to many settled locations

I was thinking of suggesting the addition of Khasab (the Omani exclave within the modern Emirates and an old port town) and Siniyah Island (an major pearl diving centre and one of the most important Christian communities in ancient East Arabia, with an old monastery (long gone by the game's timeline, of course), in today's Umm al Quwain Emirate. However, with no other additions in Arabia, I would simply represent them by
- making Jolfar a good natural port (representing Khasab's "fjords", which offer great natural protection)
-changing the tradegood of Ad Dayd to Pearls, to represent Siniyah's status as the premier pearl town of pre-Islamic Arabia.

If I were to add any locations from existing settled locations, it would be Al-Buraimi, an important Omani town and trade center that would take parts of the relatively large Al-Ayn location.

EDIT:
Based on a post from the original thread, I looked into the Usfurids/Bani Asfour and it seems clear they should still be present in the northern half of Eastern Arabia, as they had just lost Bahrain and Qatif to Hormuz and their Jarwanid allies/vassals (yeah Jarwanids should be much smaller and perhaps sworn to Hormuz)

English and Arabic wiki both agree they survived into the late 14th century, and in 1354 they were able to defeat the Mongols and seize Basra and the lands around it, until defeated by the Jalayirids, implying a significant degree of power persisted. They were also known to have very good relations with the Mamluks around 1340. As they were famous horse traders, some more Horses could perhaps be added to their lands

I drew a map of what their borders would approximately look like at the start, circled in red:
Screenshot_20250311_112102_Photo Editor.png





The post also mentioned Jabrids, but its clear they only emerged as a power in Eastern Arabia in the early 15th century. Their origins are pretty unclear, with some suggesting they came from the Bani Amer tribe that was a part of the Usfurid realm, and others that they came from the city of Zabid in Yemen, which Jabour, the grandfather of the dynasty's founder supposedly ruled until 1345 - however, given that Zabid was still a secondary capital to the Rasulids, this seems less likely. You could perhaps add him as a character in the Yemeni court, to represent this.

Screenshot_20250311_104346_Chrome.png

 
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Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Maps feedback post! Today we will take a look at the review of Arabia. Let's take a look at the list of changes:

ADDITIONS

Added the following:
  • Corridors
    • Added some Wastelands and corridors
  • TAGs
    • Al A'idh
    • Al-Zafir
    • Banu Kilab
    • Banu Lam
    • Banu Yam
    • Dhofar
    • Medina
    • Zib
  • Characters
    • mda_wudayy_bin_jammaz
  • Cultures
    • Teimani (Yemeni Jews)
  • Dynasties
    • Muhannid Dynasty
  • Dynamic Names
    • Added some Dynamic Names
CORRECTIONS

Religion:
  • Sharifate of Mecca made Shiite
Removed the following:
  • TAGS
    • Mutayr
Raw Goods
  • Changed several Raw Goods as suggested
Terrain and Vegetation
  • Total Review
Locations
  • Redrew some Locations
Minorities
  • Added minorities

You might notice that, for once, we were happy with the current location density of this region, so we also added some wastelands and corridors to make sure it worked better (for instance, we linked southern Oman with southern Yemen through corridors). Most of the changes were done on the country setup, and other layers. Let's take a look now at the maps:

Countries
View attachment 1263651
Lots of changes from feedback suggestions! The most noticeable changes happen in central Arabia, and also in the Persian Gulf (you might notice that we've already reviewed the Persian region... Don't get anxious, please, there will be another feedback post for it soon!

Dynasties
View attachment 1263655

Government Type
View attachment 1263656

Locations
View attachment 1263657
Since there are only redrawn locations today, let me know if you want to see any specific area in more detail.

Provinces
View attachment 1263658

Areas
View attachment 1263659

Terrain
View attachment 1263661
View attachment 1263662
View attachment 1263663

Development
View attachment 1263665

Harbors
View attachment 1263666

Cultures
View attachment 1263670

Languages

View attachment 1263668
View attachment 1263669
First is dominant language per location, second is court language.

Religions
View attachment 1263671
Lots of minorities!

Raw Materials
View attachment 1263672

Markets
View attachment 1263673
We're testing some new coloring for this map mode, what do you think about it?

Population
Although we have fixed our pop editor, we want to make a general pass on all pops before any more feedback review is shared, since we have some issues regarding those errors here and there.

And that's all for today! On Friday we will be taking a look at the flavour content for Scotland, cheers!
What happened to the Bedouins?
1741622860303.png


New version doesn't have them
1741623135778.png
 
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Johan will talk about the additions and rework of the raw goods this Wednesday. ;)
I understand the reasoning, as they're not really that different from other fruits, but I'm sad to see Dates go - they provided a nice flavor to the Middle East with a local good, and demand modifiers could probably do cool things with them, with Muslim pops even outside of it having increased demand and thus naturally making useful trade routes
 
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Definitely not color blindness related this time around ^^ (this is about brightness and contrasts).

In any case, no-one is ever alone in their opinions, so I'm pretty sure there's a compromise between both of us, as we both have the issue that the background is 'too loud'. For you the pitch black is bothersome, for me the blue and browns just add information that shouldn't be there.

I feel a neutral gray tone would be a good way to approach it, even if it is indeed even lighter. Thanks for the exchange!
I like the neutral grey. I am wondering if I would like two slightly different colors of grey to separate land from water.
 
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I understand the reasoning, as they're not really that different from other fruits, but I'm sad to see Dates go - they provided a nice flavor to the Middle East with a local good, and demand modifiers could probably do cool things with them, with Muslim pops even outside of it having increased demand and thus naturally making useful trade routes
Imo there should be some difference between fruits, maybe temperate and tropical fruits ? The actual stats on them would be basically the same except later on in the game europe should have a growing demand for tropical fruits leading to a price increase
 
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