Tinto Maps #8 Russia Feedback

[Slime99]

Thoughts on this range for the Bjarmians/Toimans/Zavolochye Chud? Basically a unification of the Vaga, Pinega and Toima "pagans" which were converted during the 15th century.

 

[ibvfteh]

View attachment 1279869
Thoughts on this range for the Bjarmians/Toimans/Zavolochye Chud? Basically a unification of the Vaga, Pinega and Toima "pagans" which were converted during the 15th century.

Extremely hard to say. I had problems searching for data on them in XIII-XIV time period.

Perhaps this book will help you:
К этнической истории Русского Севера (чудь заволочская и славяне).

And a few images:

Also perhaps there is some info in our previous discussion

View attachment 1228714View attachment 1228715
Here is my proposal for the cultures of the East.

Let's start from the top to bottom:

I have put Nenets people at the top because the colonisation of those lands by Russians has not yet started.
Mezen city (not where location Mezen is located) was founded in the XVI century.
Locations Nes, Vizhas and Oma are currently populated by Nenets people. 7a on the map

Sloboda Lampozhnya was founded in 1545 by the Slavic population. However, when it was mentioned by Ivan the Terrible it was addressed to the Samoyedic people (Nenets) who lived near Kanin und Timan tundra

View attachment 1228683View attachment 1228684
The lands there are not highly populated even now, with Mezen the only big urban place

Komi-Zyrian
Pinega
The Pinega settlements were first mentioned in the charter, drawn up in Novgorod in 1137 by order of Prince Svyatoslav Olgovich. I think it had time to assimilate into the Novgorodian trade. This location should be a part of Novgorod.
However, the lower part of Mezen and near Pinega river were populated by Komi people
View attachment 1228690View attachment 1228691View attachment 1228696
location Koptyuga for example is still populated by Komi people even today

Chakola and Kevrola(Shardonem location, should be renamed!! ) are two cities mentioned in 1137 (from the Russian Wikipedia of those cities)
However, these are the deepest ones. This is why I think Komi people were pushed from Pinega River (as you can see they live near but not directly on)

Toyma was a Novgorodian city

Near modern Kotlas, there was a Finno-Ugric settlement of Pyras(as I understand Pyras location). In the XIX century publicism, it is indicated that Pyras was located at the mouth of the Vychegda at the place of Kotlas. Zyrian settlement Pyras in the mouth of Vychegda existed already in the XIV century.

It was here that St. Stephen of Perm began his preaching among the Komi-Zyrian in 1379.

In the Vychegodsko-Vymsk chronicle, there is the following record:

So it should have Komi culture

then I have assigned cultures based on this
View attachment 1228703
It shows Merya, Mari and Komi people areas. Kokshary are a debatable population this is why I have not relied on that from this map.
Light Green represents assimilated people, Green Merya, pink Mari and Kimo with purple

Here is an article about the population near Unzha

It shows a lot of Mari cities like Shanga, Yakshan, Yur and others
View attachment 1228706

Vetluga - in the 13th century was Mari city named Yur.
River Vetluga was fully controlled by the Mari people. In 1280 Mari kuguz(prince) Bai fortified Yur city. In the 14th century kuguz Osh Pandash won against Galich principality. It was conquered only in 1468 by Galich prince Semyon Romanovich Yaroslavsky. The City of Yur was fully burned and destroyed. And Only later was colonised by Russians.

The main thing to understand is that the Slavic population ran away from the Golden Horde, which is generally North. This is why it is too early for now to assign a lot of lands of Mari and Merya to Muscovite culture.

I would make Vokhma Mari as that area had Mari archaeological sites and the hydronym is Mari.
View attachment 1228758
Zavolochye Chud' are represented as still existing on this map.

 

[Slime99]

Extremely hard to say. I had problems searching for data on them in XIII-XIV time period.

Perhaps this book will help you:
К этнической истории Русского Севера (чудь заволочская и славяне).

And a few images:
View attachment 1279923View attachment 1279930
View attachment 1279932

Also perhaps there is some info in our previous discussion

Varlaam Vazhsky apparently helped convert Chud along the Vaga in his possessions his grandfather had bought from local Chud elders in 1315.

Преподобный Варлаам Пинежский, Важский, Шенкурский

Краткое житие преподобного Варлаама Пинежского, Важского В миру – Василий. Он был одним из богатейших людей Великого Новгорода и, владея Заволочьем, очень любил этот край.

ortox.ru

 

[ibvfteh]

Varlaam Vazhsky apparently helped convert Chud along the Vaga in his possessions his grandfather had bought from local Chud elders in 1315.

Преподобный Варлаам Пинежский, Важский, Шенкурский

Краткое житие преподобного Варлаама Пинежского, Важского В миру – Василий. Он был одним из богатейших людей Великого Новгорода и, владея Заволочьем, очень любил этот край.

ortox.ru

Yea, there is definitely a presence there. Question is how much and percentage.

The book I linked also has other examples if you are interested

But yea looking more into it the area you have outlined is more or less aligned with what is sad. Maybe even more south to Totma as there are findings of Chud there. A small minority perhaps?