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Vinland Fantasy Scenario

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Originally posted by Styrbiorn


When was Polytheism replaced with that term? :)
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Pantheism, Polytheism, and Paganism are all pretty much interchangeable. One means worship of a pantheon, one means worship of many (gods), the other means worship of idols (or Idolatry which is the REALLY old word for Paganism) since panthe/poly/pagans tended to worship idol representations of their gods. (In Europe anyways). This is ironic since the strict (pre schism) definition of Idolatry would classify the little christ-on-a-cross medallions as idolatry as well ;)
 
Please find listed below a complete, and revised, micmac monarch list. The names are algonquin names but should suffice for the micmac's. The meaning is the same and will in fact have some bearing on events I have planned for them (assuming they survive). I will try and flesh out any plans I have for each monarch as we progress starting with the young and impetous grand chief Chogan (aka, Blackbird or Raven). As you can see from names down the list I have some good plans for tribal infighting, murder, ambition, peace and progression. Should be fun to build upon this without taking the focus away from vinland.

Notes I have removed the original post, applied some amendments in line with events I am writing, and reposted it here.

## Fantasy "monarchs" for Micmac
# by Languish
# using IDs 18000->

historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 18000 }
name = "Chogan" #The Blackbird/raven
startdate = { year = 1415}
enddate = { year = 1422}
DIP = 4
MIL = 6
ADM = 4
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 18001 }
name = "Askuwheteau" #He who keeps watch
startdate = { year = 1422}
enddate = { year = 1457}
DIP = 5
MIL = 4
ADM = 5
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 18002 }
name = "Targean" #The Crane
startdate = { year = 1457}
enddate = { year = 1470}
DIP = 5
MIL = 4
ADM = 5
Dormant = yes
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 18003 }
name = "Matchitehew" #Evil-Heart
startdate = { year = 1457}
enddate = { year = 1459} #murdered/event
DIP = 4
MIL = 7
ADM = 3
Dormant = yes
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 18004 }
name = "Pannoowau" #The Liar
startdate = { year = 1459} #the "murderer"
enddate = { year = 1470} #deposed by Sunukkuhkau
DIP = 4
MIL = 7
ADM = 3
Dormant = yes
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 18005 }
name = "Sunukkuhkau" #He who crushes/brings order
startdate = { year = 1470}
enddate = { year = 1493}
DIP = 4
MIL = 4
ADM = 4
Dormant = yes
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 18006 }
name = "Etchemin" #Canoe Man
startdate = { year = 1493}
enddate = { year = 1501} #accidental death/ramifications
DIP = 4
MIL = 4
ADM = 7
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 18007 }
name = "Wematin" #The Brother
startdate = { year = 1501}
enddate = { year = 1530}
DIP = 7 #healer of poor relations w/ events
MIL = 4
ADM = 5
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 18008 }
name = "Grand Chief Membertou" #Greatly respected
startdate = { year = 1530} #he encountered champlain
enddate = { year = 1611} #converts micmac tribe
DIP = 9
MIL = 6
ADM = 8
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 18009 }
name = "Nixkamich" #The Grandfather
startdate = { year = 1611 }
enddate = { year = 1684 } #another long reign
DIP = 5
MIL = 4
ADM = 5
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 18010 }
name = "Eluwilussit" #Holy One
startdate = { year = 1684 }
enddate = { year = 1705 } #Religous events
DIP = 6
MIL = 4
ADM = 6
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 18011 }
name = "Machk" #The Bear
startdate = { year = 1705 }
enddate = { year = 1733 }
DIP = 5
MIL = 6
ADM = 5
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 18012 }
name = "Segenam" #The Lazy
startdate = { year = 1733 }
enddate = { year = 1759 }
DIP = 4
MIL = 5
ADM = 3
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 18013 }
name = "Makkapitew" #He who has large teeth
startdate = { year = 1759 }
enddate = { year = 1801 }
DIP = 7
MIL = 5
ADM = 6
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 18014 }
name = "Etlelooaat" #He who shouts
startdate = { year = 1801 }
enddate = { year = 1819 } #<-- ?
DIP = 6
MIL = 5
ADM = 8
}
 
Originally posted by jaronpinochet
He was on the mainland because thats where the best hunting grounds are. She was lost in the forest. and he wants to marry her. bad. and she wants to use him to rock the huron. because vinlands warriors are better than micmac. he wasnt alone PER SE but maybe detached from his hunting party. all kings like to hunt jah know? so if event = whatever and this christianity event pops up, we get a diplomatic disaster with micma :D do you think the marriage making them a vassal is going too far? If the chiefs daughter married the king maybe that is going too far..at best its a RM and relation boost. I think if the chief was dead and SOMEHOW she was 'chieftess' or whatever which she wouldnt be, it'd be appropriate but not now. Do you like my conversion to sunni event? :D
Click to expand...

Dude a lot of your events well... make no sense :p
How would a book on a really old Norse longship lead to Sunni islam?! Even if it is from North Africa or something, the norsemen can't read Arabic...

And you still haven't sold me on the hunting thing :p this is HOSTILE TERRITORY, that's like the king of Hungary saying 'Y'know, I'm going to go hunting in Greece today! Saddle up guys!" And then he bumps into the daughter of the Sultan and they hit it off, since once they marry then Hungary can help out against Austria...
 
Originally posted by Mad King James


Dude a lot of your events well... make no sense :p
How would a book on a really old Norse longship lead to Sunni islam?! Even if it is from North Africa or something, the norsemen can't read Arabic...
Click to expand...

Agreed.

I would advise removing them (except for the "carrack" event) and discussing them here for convenience before posting. This would also include the marriage event which is completely out of context.

This isnt being rude to you, just making sure continuity is assured in the scenario. Its great that you want to help, but discuss here before you use the events thread.

Edit: LOSE THE ISLAM EVENTS! :mad:
 
Originally posted by jaronpinochet
!!!!!!!! i just wont make anymore :mad: You can at least offer me advice on how to make them fit not ban me from a thread!
Click to expand...

I cant ban you ;) i have merely asked you to refrain from posting on the events thread until it has been agreed here. Its great you wish to contribute, it really is, but PLEASE discuss it here first!
 
Oh boy! Quite a debate on religion here... :)

Here is what I think/thought:

When we started on this i had the same view as James - the Icelanders and Greenlanders were Catholics (they actually converted before most of Norway did), the Vinlanders came from there -> thus they should be Catholic.

Since then I have read a bit more about the Vinland saga, and have realised that although Leif Eriksson was a Christian many of his companions in the explorations were not. Of these the most prominent in the sagas is Thorfinn karlsefni who settled and lived several years in Vinland before returning to Iceland.

This is the historic info. If we now consider how a Vinland settlement would attract settlers I think the possibility to avoid submission to Kvitekrist (norse name for Jesus) would be one reason to resettle in Vnland - this way you get a community mostly of ancient norse beliefs, and this would also explain partly why they have broken contact with (Christianized) Europe.

In the end this is a matter of gameplay, and creating a fun scenario. There are no historic proofs supporting either ways, but by starting as asa-believers you have the extended possibility of creating some great events e.g. for the contact with Europe, European missionaries etc...

By making the Vinlanders Catholic in 1419 there is IMO no more possible changes to religion... They would not return to asa-beliefs after 400 years as Catholics...

This is the reason I suggest the following:

- The Vinlanders start as an isolated asa-believing community (using a modified hinduism), and this is one of the reasons why they once broke with the Catholic Green-/Icelanders. They should also start in one of the slower tech-groups (china?) because of missing impulses from Europe over the past centuries.
- After contact with Europe they should receive random missionaries working on their own, as well as official attempts on conversion from catholic states. This should also improve their techgroup (and also reduce their relations with the NA indians?).
 
Originally posted by Havard
The Vinlanders start as an isolated asa-believing community (using a modified hinduism), and this is one of the reasons why they once broke with the Catholic Green-/Icelanders. They should also start in one of the slower tech-groups (china?) because of missing impulses from Europe over the past centuries. After contact with Europe they should receive random missionaries working on their own, as well as official attempts on conversion from catholic states. This should also improve their techgroup (and also reduce their relations with the NA indians?).
Click to expand...

100% agreed!!!
 
its not a copy of the korean, its a book from a norweigan who went on a crusade learned about islam wrote it in NORWEIGAN ( or whatever) and it washed up in vinland and this boy johan pinochet read it and told people what was in it and when they were afraid so they fled and make a secret community of sunni islam and later on they decided to wage holy war on the main part of the nation and seize control of the whole nation. and the marriage one makes perfect sense.
 
Originally posted by jaronpinochet
!!!!!!!! i just wont make anymore :mad: You can at least offer me advice on how to make them fit not ban me from a thread!
Click to expand...

Don't be so touchy!

The matter of an islamic Vinland was brought up, and everyone voted it down - why is that a problem?

You are of course welcome to contribute, but please consider that the events has to be somewhat fitting, and that they should follow a base history line agreed upon... E.g. the carrack event is usable, but need some tweaks since the Norwegians didn't use carracks...
 
Originally posted by Havard
Oh boy! Quite a debate on religion here... :)

Here is what I think/thought:

When we started on this i had the same view as James - the Icelanders and Greenlanders were Catholics (they actually converted before most of Norway did), the Vinlanders came from there -> thus they should be Catholic.

Since then I have read a bit more about the Vinland saga, and have realised that although Leif Eriksson was a Christian many of his companions in the explorations were not. Of these the most prominent in the sagas is Thorfinn karlsefni who settled and lived several years in Vinland before returning to Iceland.

This is the historic info. If we now consider how a Vinland settlement would attract settlers I think the possibility to avoid submission to Kvitekrist (norse name for Jesus) would be one reason to resettle in Vnland - this way you get a community mostly of ancient norse beliefs, and this would also explain partly why they have broken contact with (Christianized) Europe.

In the end this is a matter of gameplay, and creating a fun scenario. There are no historic proofs supporting either ways, but by starting as asa-believers you have the extended possibility of creating some great events e.g. for the contact with Europe, European missionaries etc...

By making the Vinlanders Catholic in 1419 there is IMO no more possible changes to religion... They would not return to asa-beliefs after 400 years as Catholics...

This is the reason I suggest the following:

- The Vinlanders start as an isolated asa-believing community (using a modified hinduism), and this is one of the reasons why they once broke with the Catholic Green-/Icelanders. They should also start in one of the slower tech-groups (china?) because of missing impulses from Europe over the past centuries.
- After contact with Europe they should receive random missionaries working on their own, as well as official attempts on conversion from catholic states. This should also improve their techgroup (and also reduce their relations with the NA indians?).
Click to expand...

I think personally they should start in the Orthodox tech group. The tradition is still there, and nations weren't terribly well connected with their neighbors even inside Europe. In relation to their contact with the rest of Europe the Vinlanders aren't in that much of a worse position then say, Russia. Their religion will cut their techspeed down too, so Orthodox will be plenty slow.

As to religion, even though what you propose would lead to a goodly sized pagan population, there would still be christians there and lots of them, though it would be of the not one but both variety, so the option to convert will always be there.
 
Captain Krunch said it was ok as long as option a didnt make it sunni. And option a sleeps all the sunni events!! I just want to help :( but no one likes my events. And I dont know what to do! Its not like i'm making events to annoy people. they take time for me to do. I was just trying to make it possible for vinland to be sunni. I thought it'd make it interesting but I guess I have different tastes than you all do. Ok no more islam events then. geez sorry for trying to be helpful i wont let it happen again. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
Originally posted by Havard
Oh boy! Quite a debate on religion here... :)

Here is what I think/thought:

When we started on this i had the same view as James - the Icelanders and Greenlanders were Catholics (they actually converted before most of Norway did), the Vinlanders came from there -> thus they should be Catholic.

Since then I have read a bit more about the Vinland saga, and have realised that although Leif Eriksson was a Christian many of his companions in the explorations were not. Of these the most prominent in the sagas is Thorfinn karlsefni who settled and lived several years in Vinland before returning to Iceland.

This is the historic info. If we now consider how a Vinland settlement would attract settlers I think the possibility to avoid submission to Kvitekrist (norse name for Jesus) would be one reason to resettle in Vnland - this way you get a community mostly of ancient norse beliefs, and this would also explain partly why they have broken contact with (Christianized) Europe.

In the end this is a matter of gameplay, and creating a fun scenario. There are no historic proofs supporting either ways, but by starting as asa-believers you have the extended possibility of creating some great events e.g. for the contact with Europe, European missionaries etc...

By making the Vinlanders Catholic in 1419 there is IMO no more possible changes to religion... They would not return to asa-beliefs after 400 years as Catholics...

This is the reason I suggest the following:

- The Vinlanders start as an isolated asa-believing community (using a modified hinduism), and this is one of the reasons why they once broke with the Catholic Green-/Icelanders. They should also start in one of the slower tech-groups (china?) because of missing impulses from Europe over the past centuries.
- After contact with Europe they should receive random missionaries working on their own, as well as official attempts on conversion from catholic states. This should also improve their techgroup (and also reduce their relations with the NA indians?).
Click to expand...

I fully agree with you Havard, this is the way to do it, maybe in one of the slower tech-groups..:)
 
Originally posted by jaronpinochet
its not a copy of the korean, its a book from a norweigan who went on a crusade learned about islam wrote it in NORWEIGAN ( or whatever) and it washed up in vinland and this boy johan pinochet read it and told people what was in it and when they were afraid so they fled and make a secret community of sunni islam and later on they decided to wage holy war on the main part of the nation and seize control of the whole nation. and the marriage one makes perfect sense.
Click to expand...

Islamic idea voted down by us all, as stated by Harvard.

The marriage event makes no sense whatsoever, and as the main man behind the micmacs and scripting of their events/monarchs/leaders, etc... i am personally dead set against it.

Especially in its current form with no scripted build-up.
 
Originally posted by jaronpinochet
Captain Krunch said it was ok as long as option a didnt make it sunni. And option a sleeps all the sunni events!! I just want to help :( but no one likes my events. And I dont know what to do! Its not like i'm making events to annoy people. they take time for me to do. I was just trying to make it possible for vinland to be sunni. I thought it'd make it interesting but I guess I have different tastes than you all do. Ok no more islam events then. geez sorry for trying to be helpful i wont let it happen again. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Click to expand...

No one likes you "charging around like a bull in a china shop" is the better description. Of course we all appreciate ANY contribution but you must be aware that this is Krunch's scenario that Harvard, myself, Wasa, Styrbiorn and Mad King James have been carefully proposing and counter-proposing on.

You have blasted in here with great energy and interest which is great, but you obviously have not read every single posting in this thread and thus have no concept of the feel and direction for this scenario.

Stick around mate, but just chill.
 
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