What about to make a bit improved design of DH map with some fixed mistakes?

[Lord Rommel]

View attachment 1276795View attachment 1276796

jeah. I ignored most of the "smaller rivers" beside "Dunare (Danube/Donau)"m Mures and Siret because with all the rivers in place province design is getting even way more commplicated fragmenting Romania in dozens of small provinces.... plus u get a problem with the baorders (and potential typical boarders).

 

[Nick3210]

By the way, we need to develop a single standard for working with rivers. Vanilla rivers are very helpful in navigating the terrain when working on improving the map, so there is probably no need to delete them, unless they have gross errors (such as the Terek in the Caucasus)

But adding new river is probably only necessary if there are really good reasons for it. There are already a lot of rivers on the map. Moreover, many of them are ridiculously narrow and do not pose a serious obstacle. There is probably no need to add another more rivers that are not very wide.

For example, I wanted to add (and even drew it) the Volchya River, along which the border between Zaporizhia and Pavlograd partially runs. It would be appropriate from the point of view of the map design and gameplay. But since I couldn't find any serious battles for this river, I didn't make it, because it's not as wide as the other main rivers.

 

[Rodolphe123]

By the way, we need to develop a single standard for working with rivers. Vanilla rivers are very helpful in navigating the terrain when working on improving the map, so there is probably no need to delete them, unless they have gross errors (such as the Terek in the Caucasus)

But adding new river is probably only necessary if there are really good reasons for it. There are already a lot of rivers on the map. Moreover, many of them are ridiculously narrow and do not pose a serious obstacle. There is probably no need to add another more rivers that are not very wide.

For example, I wanted to add (and even drew it) the Volchya River, along which the border between Zaporizhia and Pavlograd partially runs. It would be appropriate from the point of view of the map design and gameplay. But since I couldn't find any serious battles for this river, I didn't make it, because it's not as wide as the other main rivers.

For my behalf, the only river modification that I suggested is in Canada, in case it is done by Mr Vilochka.

Montréal is depicted in DH map has a province north of Saint-Lawrence River. In reality, it is an island in that River. So I suggest to depict it correctly, as Montréal was an important city for Canada (it had close to 1 millions inhabitants in the 1940's).

 

[Nick3210]

Just for fan
Lord Rommel really offered to draw a new cross-point on the map!
But I changed this design by removing this cross-point, because I believe we must avoiding them if it is possible!

Therefore, everyone can see who is really the Fighter against cross-points, and who promotes them !!

 

[Nick3210]

View attachment 1276544
Current "alpha" for Romania.

I need opinions:
The new "load" would made use of a lot of new provinces...
BUT when needed u could merge the following:
Torda with Cluj.
Targu Mures with Miercurea Ciuc.

The yellow marks are the "hungarian-romanian boarder" after the 2nd vienna dictate. That is the reason why i didnt changed the base boarder lines.

Ahaha ))

Admit it - who drew the cross-point (!) Bacau - Iasi / Botosany - Focansi ? ))

What are the reasons for creating this cross-point that we should avoid whenever possible?

Bacau - Iasi have road connection, Botosany - Focansi obviously cannot have connection ever.
So this cross-point do not need.

Then, what the reason for such strange and long Botosani? Obvioucly it block important connection between Suseava - Iasi !

What are the reasons for not making a normal visual connection Suseava - Iasi and join that very strange southern part of Botosani to Iasi ??

Well, if you really want to create a cross-point there, then obviously it should be a cross-connection Suseava - Iasi / Botosany - Bacau !

But if we follow the rule of 'avoiding creating crosspoints if it is possible', then even I can find reasons not to create a crosspoint here, but to make visual connection Suseava - Iasi and accordinely visual block for Botosany - Bacau .

So, please, can anybody explain why he create such strange long Botosani and even with a cross-point in the south??

 

[tioperete]

I don't get well the issue of that cross-connections, need a scheme XD

 

[tioperete]

jeah. I ignored most of the "smaller rivers" beside "Dunare (Danube/Donau)"m Mures and Siret because with all the rivers in place province design is getting even way more commplicated fragmenting Romania in dozens of small provinces.... plus u get a problem with the baorders (and potential typical boarders).

dunno why I just posted the first 2 images without all the text and the modification of your map XD

Still have to finish the last checks I did for your Europe map to share, but as Rodolphe posted Romania I changed from objetive XD, will try to post tomorrow.

Did you see the Slovak maps?

 

[Nick3210]

I don't get well the issue of that cross-connections, need a scheme XD

 

[Rodolphe123]

Just for fan
Lord Rommel really offered to draw a new cross-point on the map!
But I changed this design by removing this cross-point, because I believe we must avoiding them if it is possible!

Therefore, everyone can see who is really the Fighter against cross-points, and who promotes them !!

View attachment 1276817

View attachment 1276821

It is a good addition for strategic purpose, that city was a big producer of coals, and it will reduces the number of connections to Kharkov.

 

[Rodolphe123]

Ahaha ))

Admit it - who drew the cross-point (!) Bacau - Iasi / Botosany - Focansi ? ))

What are the reasons for creating this cross-point that we should avoid whenever possible?

Bacau - Iasi have road connection, Botosany - Focansi obviously cannot have connection ever.
So this cross-point do not need.

Then, what the reason for such strange and long Botosani? Obvioucly it block important connection between Suseava - Iasi !

What are the reasons for not making a normal visual connection Suseava - Iasi and join that very strange southern part of Botosani to Iasi ??

Well, if you really want to create a cross-point there, then obviously it should be a cross-connection Suseava - Iasi / Botosany - Bacau !

But if we follow the rule of 'avoiding creating crosspoints if it is possible', then even I can find reasons not to create a crosspoint here, but to make visual connection Suseava - Iasi and accordinely visual block for Botosany - Bacau .

So, please, can anybody explain why he create such strange long Botosani and even with a cross-point in the south??

View attachment 1276855

I must say that it is not the best shape, maybe the southern part should be cut, unless there is a serious reason.

 

[Rodolphe123]

View attachment 1275614
Changes:
France:
Added: Nantes added as new urban city to get a nice contrast to the region.
I want to keep the Uboat bases because its seems to me they were added for that reason and to get the "siege situation".
Adjusted: Fromer Nantes (now La Roche-sur-Yon), St-Nazaire and Vannes were edited.
Adjusted: Angers - Le Mans - Orleans and Chartres were adjusted to add some room to the provinces.

Balkan:
Adjusted: Maribor and Kranj adjusted
New: Varazdin added to get the plains into the area.
Adjusted: Bjelovar and Osijek were adjusted in size for adding Varazdin.

Austria:
New: Loeben added for the mountain area.
Adjusted: Graz was modified for Loeben and turned into a hill reducing the stress of terrain in the area.

Poland:
New: Krakow moved to the north and is working as a new intersection on the map.
Adjusted: Vistula around Krakow was moved a bit further south.
Adjusted: Zakopane was modified and shrinked.

Slovakia:
Added: Nitra plains were added.
Adjsuted: Bratisalava, Zilina and Banska Bystrica adjsuted in size. Banska Bystrica turned into a forrest.

Bulgaria:
Added: Haskovo is a new moutain province blocking Greek from Bulgaria.
Adjusted: Plovdiv moved on the southern side of the river and turned into a hill.
Adjusted: Old Plovdic became Stara Zagora.

Macedonia:
New: Prilep added as buffering province to greece. The region is a hill terrain.
Adjusted: Skopje adjusted in size for the new province.

Greek:
New: Kozani added to get the hill split into the greek front.
New: Trikala plains added.
New: Kalamata added to form a better coastal line and terrain design.
Adjusted: Veria - former Kozani - is now a plain province with the crosstown of Veria.
Adjusted: Ioannina, Agrinion, Levadhia and Larissa adjusted in size for Trikala plains.
I kept the single Levadhia province. An additional split would just add a new province and wont improve the map at the area. Levadhia is still a blocking province for Athen.
Adjusted: Corinth adjusted in size for the new coastal province.

Italy:
NOTES: I didnt reworked the Grosseto area.
I'm not sure that adding MORE provinces here would add anything.
U can discuss the provincal name for sure but I think the overall shape is already working and I think adding more provinces in the area will help with anything.

I think Rouen should be split in two, and it's eastern part should be called Compiègne or Beauvais. That new province could be expand eastward to block a connection between Laon and Paris. Compiègne is old and important city around Paris in strategic term.

In the worst case, the east part of Rouen could be absorbs by Dieppe and Laon if you don't want to add another province. I don't think it make sens to expand the area of Rouen that far around Paris.

Here is my first proposal :

 

[tioperete]

View attachment 1276890

View attachment 1276892

So you can attack at the same time Cherkasy from Pervomaisk than you get attacked in Uman from Kirovograd?

If I understood well thats a bit crazy, isn't it?

 

[Rodolphe123]

So you can attack at the same time Cherkasy from Pervomaisk than you get attacked in Uman from Kirovograd?

If I understood well thats a bit crazy, isn't it?

I was not sure about cross connections, but now I think with Tioperete post that it should not be done. It will be better to block it. Road junction provinces could be build if necessary.

 

[Lord Rommel]

@Nick3210
There are several points where I thought about retreating from the threat because I have the feeling that u cant cooperate at several levels... because u lack the ability to find compromises at any level... and I think now its the time.

Yes.
I'm against cross connections in terms of allowing movement by cross connections.
I'm not against the design of cross connection provinces. Its a handy tool to shape areas and to cut down province connections to stay in the HoI map rules.
I used a lot of these province layouts for the new romania rework (7 in total to be fair) but they were made to get a sort of map organisation and movement organisation in conjunction with geographical design, road network and general movements.

For the Rework I ignored some rivers like the Bistrita and Somes or Ialomita or Jiu river. When I would take care of any river country like germany or the Netherlands or france would became a true nightmare in terms of design. Poland is already a killing nightmare in that regard.

Thx to Nick's behaviour I'm tired and for that reason I guess I will drop additional work here on the thread for the reason of lacking compromises.
So have fun with the suggestion. When needed u will find me in other threads.

[Maps deleted]
I have taken my maps offline because I dont want Nick to reuse them. Sorry for the others.

Thx @tioperete and @Rodolphe123 for the help. Your feedback was vital, constructive and open for compromises.

 

[Nick3210]

Thx to Nick's behaviour I'm tired and for that reason I guess I will drop additional work here on the thread for the reason of lacking compromises.
So have fun with the suggestion. When needed u will find me in other threads.

Botosani was the first province I checked of your suggestions. And it was really very strangely made, obviously incorrectly made, I have outlined my arguments, this form of Botosani is blocking Bacau - Iasi road connection.
Instead of your arguing why Botosani got exactly this form, I was accused of 'can't cooperate', 'lacking compromises' and 'bad behaviour'. You just probably realized that all your other proposals, as well as Botosani, also will be checked for common sense and compliance with the roadmap before to be implemented.
OK. Indeed, there is no point in cooperating with such your unconstructive position, you're right.
Thanks for your suggestions on the Dnepr river area, which I accepted.

 

[Rodolphe123]

A lot of drama for a simple map modding thread guys ...

There is plenty of good ideas here, the job should be finished, it will be useful for everybody.

Nick 3210, you have a direct and sarcastic personality. I'm used to it in my job, it is not everybody who can manage your style ! I don't think that Lord Rommel wanted to disrespect you, he just disagrees strongly with cross connections.

I general your ideas for a new map are great, it is only that few cross connection that seems not be possible finaly. As I have suggested, it would be better to create road junction provinces (as in real life), and I understand that you are already doing this often in your new map.

Lord Rommel & Tioperete have also made great suggestions in Western Europe, and It will be of good use for your mod. Obliviously, some adjusments will have to be made for roads, etc.

I suggest as possible that you take in consideration as much as possible real provinces, because it easier to placed realistically manpower, industries, resources, etc.

Carry on the good work, and I hope that the situation will evolve positively for everybody !

 

[Nick3210]

Nick 3210, you have a direct and sarcastic personality. I'm used to it in my job, it is not everybody who can manage your style !

Absolutely true, I'm rather direct and sarcastic. It's probably a cultural difference, I know that Westerners are more tolerant and polite in communication than Russians, that's fact.
And this is despite, I'm really doing my best trying to appear cute on this forum.

I don't think that Lord Rommel wanted to disrespect you

On the other hand, I take easy directness and sarcasm towards me, so there are no problem with it.

 

[tioperete]

Well, anyways, I'd really love that @Vilochka shared a little tutorial of how he modifies the map, as I've been completely unable to do it trying to follow other guides, and many are lost, as I'd like to try to do some little modifications myself

 

[Rodolphe123]

Well, anyways, I'd really love that @Vilochka shared a little tutorial of how he modifies the map, as I've been completely unable to do it trying to follow other guides, and many are lost, as I'd like to try to do some little modifications myself

He has a 20 pages guide in russian, and he said that is not complete. Indeed, if he could create a tutorial, we could do the job ourselves instead of him and avoid to argue about imaginary provinces limits ... But, if we could agree on a common map, it would be only one job.

 

[Nick3210]

it is only that few cross connection that seems not be possible finaly. As I have suggested, it would be better to create road junction provinces (as in real life)

I think it's an extra job for Vilochka and modders to add every time a special 5th province-crossroad between the square of four provinces just for one purpose - to kill cross-connect, if there is no other reason for creating such a province. And besides, it's not always possible/appropriate.
After all, no one prevents the modders from setting double cross-block there if they want to follow the concept of vanilla DH map.
It's funny enough, but even such a primitive map as chess, with only 64 provinces, have cross-connections, but vanilla DH map haven't.

But of course, whenever possible, I try to avoid such double cross-connections if there is a reasonable opportunity to abandon one of this cross-connections.

Before it's too late, I've removed such cross-connection Kryvoi Rog-Melitopol / Kherson-Dnepropetrovsk from the current package to fix.

If you send division from Kherson to Dnepropetrovsk not directly (through Nikopol), but through Krivoy Rog, it will not greatly increase its way. Therefore, I decided that removing the direct way from Kherson to Dnepropetrovsk would not cause much damage to logistics and could be sacrificed.

​

.

The breadth of your knowledge of geography and history is amazing and commands respect, and your points to warn me against mistakes were really helpful.
You're always welcome to point out my mistakes and give recommendations about map improving, unless, of course, corporate discipline prevents it.