• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I think it's an extra job for Vilochka and modders to add every time a special 5th province-crossroad between the square of four provinces just for one purpose - to kill cross-connect, if there is no other reason for creating such a province. And besides, it's not always possible/appropriate.
After all, no one prevents the modders from setting double cross-block there if they want to follow the concept of vanilla DH map.
It's funny enough, but even such a primitive map as chess, with only 64 provinces, have cross-connections, but vanilla DH map haven't. :D

But of course, whenever possible, I try to avoid such double cross-connections if there is a reasonable opportunity to abandon one of this cross-connections.

Before it's too late, I've removed such cross-connection Kryvoi Rog-Melitopol / Kherson-Dnepropetrovsk from the current package to fix.

If you send division from Kherson to Dnepropetrovsk not directly (through Nikopol), but through Krivoy Rog, it will not greatly increase its way. Therefore, I decided that removing the direct way from Kherson to Dnepropetrovsk would not cause much damage to logistics and could be sacrificed.

View attachment 1277148



The breadth of your knowledge of geography and history is amazing and commands respect, and your points to warn me against mistakes were really helpful.
You're always welcome to point out my mistakes and give recommendations about map improving, unless, of course, corporate discipline prevents it. :)


This is a very reasonable decision Mr Roads master !
 
  • 1Haha
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Mr tioperete what do you think of my suggestion to add Compiègne at the eastern part of Rouen province on Lord Rommel map ? I don't think it make sens to let Rouen be like that ?

Also, would you like to revised my proposed map of UK ? Your are indeed very knowledgeable in geography and history, so it would be a good think if you revise and correct my proposition (maybe to draw it on Lord Rommel map also) ?
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
@Nick3210
There are several points where I thought about retreating from the threat because I have the feeling that u cant cooperate at several levels... because u lack the ability to find compromises at any level... and I think now its the time.

Yes.
I'm against cross connections in terms of allowing movement by cross connections.
I'm not against the design of cross connection provinces. Its a handy tool to shape areas and to cut down province connections to stay in the HoI map rules.
I used a lot of these province layouts for the new romania rework (7 in total to be fair) but they were made to get a sort of map organisation and movement organisation in conjunction with geographical design, road network and general movements.

For the Rework I ignored some rivers like the Bistrita and Somes or Ialomita or Jiu river. When I would take care of any river country like germany or the Netherlands or france would became a true nightmare in terms of design. Poland is already a killing nightmare in that regard.

Thx to Nick's behaviour I'm tired and for that reason I guess I will drop additional work here on the thread for the reason of lacking compromises.
So have fun with the suggestion. When needed u will find me in other threads.

View attachment 1276974
View attachment 1276984

Thx @tioperete and @Rodolphe123 for the help. Your feedback was vital, constructive and open for compromises.

Well thank you for your good work !
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Mr tioperete what do you think of my suggestion to add Compiègne at the eastern part of Rouen province on Lord Rommel map ? I don't think it make sens to let Rouen be like that ?

Also, would you like to revised my proposed map of UK ? Your are indeed very knowledgeable in geography and history, so it would be a good think if you revise and correct my proposition (maybe to draw it on Lord Rommel map also) ?
It seems fine, just make Compiegne a forest, and look the way to make Rouen connect with Amiens, but this one you can ignore if its a design problem. Rouen-Dieppe-Amiens shouldn't be long anyways.

I will take a look on UK and answer in some minutes.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
It seems fine, just make Compiegne a forest, and look the way to make Rouen connect with Amiens, but this one you can ignore if its a design problem. Rouen-Dieppe-Amiens shouldn't be long anyways.

I will take a look on UK and answer in some minutes.

Here it is :

Karten rework EU concept - adding Compiègne.jpg
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Mr tioperete, I think that the work in Spain was not finished ?

I think, that you suggested modifications in the middle of the country at beginning of this thread. Maybe you could add it on a separate map if still think there is missing provinces there.

Do you have the final map for Romania also ?
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Mr tioperete what do you think of my suggestion to add Compiègne at the eastern part of Rouen province on Lord Rommel map ? I don't think it make sens to let Rouen be like that ?

Also, would you like to revised my proposed map of UK ? Your are indeed very knowledgeable in geography and history, so it would be a good think if you revise and correct my proposition (maybe to draw it on Lord Rommel map also) ?
Swansea needs a reshaping, making it connect to Caernarvon by the coast at Snowdonia and align a bit more the border with Cardiff with the Brecon Beacons. I'd convert Cardiff into mountains now that you have Swansea.
I'd make Worcester or Gloucester hills from northern Bristol and part of Birminghan, look at relief map to draw that. Gloucester would be more fit as center oh the region, as Worcester is at the beginning of the plain, but Worcester was planned as the site that the British government would relocate in case of German Invasion, so it's maybe more interesting cause that.
In the south, Reading seems fine, but I wouldn't divide Bournemouth from Portsmouth. I don't see any benefit on it. I'd make Portsmouth hills, especially now that you have Reading for the plains. But you should consider to divide Dover between Hastings and Dover, to create and encircling point in Kent area.
According to me, all the southern coast should be hills.
You can use Cambridge instead Luton for the fun, you know Cambridge and Oxford. Also Cambridge fits better the connection role with Norwich. Here you could just maintain Oxford as it is, but increasing the number of provinces in areas like this one would not harm, you create problems on big fronts so can be done perfectly,
Southend is not a bad adition, but it worked as somehow port extension of London. I'd use Ipswich better, close to 3 times Southend in size and more centered in the province. Ipswich was big natural port and important coastal fortress.
My advice is to completely forget Coventry., while Leicester doesnt seem a bad idea at all.
If you want to add Liverpool, make it the sea way from Manchester making Manchester an inland province. But leave a little border cross from Manchester to Carlisle or the new province there if you decide to touch the area, Consider to make Liverpool, Manchester and Birmingham city terrain. If Birmigham seems to big as city terrain, you can consider to add Shrewsbury in the Welsh Marches, hills or plains at your choice.
Sheffield - Leed should work, but please dont add Nottingham there. Overcrowding the area and you dont really need it as a keypoint.
Merge Middlesbrough with York and make it hills cause the York Moors. Here York would represent more the region than the city of York itself.
You didnt place well Newcastle and Sunderland, they are much closer, but the province design is ok. Just add the Tyne river as border between them.
Here you can consider to make Carlisle a plain and add Lancaster as mountains including a very little part from your actual Manchester and Leeds provinces, and readd the hills between Newcastle and Carlisle in some point like Hexham. You would have the most accurate geography and road-rail connections in that case, but other option is to leave Carlisle as it is ignoring the possibility of Lancaster and Hexham, it would be inexact but not a crime. Also, instead Lancaster, you can use Kendal as most important point in the Lake District and crossroad, then you should not take the little part from your actual Manchester to make Lancaster fit. I'd prioritize Lancaster cause bigger, entrance to the Lakes and more important historically than Kendal, but your choice.
In Scotland, consider the idea of Stranraer or Ayr in Galloway area, as a isolated corner and possible encircling point.
I would give a little part of Glasgow to Fort William to better represent the mountains there, and would consider to separate Perth from Edinburgh using the Forth river for it. Forth would be also the border Perth - Glasgow.
Old Inverness liest east of Ness river, but from XIX century is in both sides of the river. I'd consider to move Inverness east side taking part of Aberdeen, setting its influence into Elgin area, and use something like Dingwall for old Inverness province. Here I have nothing clear, as not touching Inverness is perfectly viable, Dingwall would be the biggest town there and in mid road to , but barely 3,8k people. Anyways, moving Inverness or not, I'd still create a province there, Elgin in that case, and would make impassable the terrain from Aberdeen to Fort William.
Probably, maintaining Inverness and creating Elgin would be the better outcome.
What I would certainly do, it's renaming Scapa Flow as Wick, and locate Scapa Flow, strait connection with Wick, in its true location in Orkney island.

And for sure, do Isle of Man.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Mr tioperete, I think that the work in Spain was not finished ?

I think, that you suggested modifications in the middle of the country at beginning of this thread. Maybe you could add it on a separate map if still think there is missing provinces there.

Do you have the final map for Romania also ?
No, just made some proposals, the last one Lord Rommel did was in good way but still needed some revision. Anyways, UK revision is the last thing I do by the moment, wont go with Spain. I'll try to learn how to modify the map myself, and then, if I'am succesfull, maybe I will begin to look again into provinces and changes. Do you have the link to Vilochka guide? Maybe I can use some sort of translator.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Gentlemen, I agree to make these changes. I want to say that the work is being done within the framework of Nick's WW2 Multiplayer Realism Mod and nothing more. Going beyond this mod - we understand that many people have created many good modifications and the appearance of two maps may confuse them. I want to make a remark right away, I am not a map creator, not a graphic designer, not an expert, I was just interested in studying this little-studied aspect of modding. It is better to always remember that there is a wonderful balanced vanilla map in the game. Perhaps some changes will not appear. Please do not be upset. Taking on this work, I did not expect that it would cause such a response. Sorry if I did not inspire you. Any of my works with the original DH, E3 maps are the property of the community. As for the proposed changes - there are so many of them! I will create a folder and save the graphic files.
Regarding message about manual mr. @Lord Rommel - I'd be glad if someone else learned how to edit a map! I have a guide, but it is in russian and not complete enough. For example, I completely miss working in graphic editors. I use CorelPhotoPaint 22, CorelDraw 22 as support, ArcGIS 10.8.2 for make satellite view, SAS.Planet for coordinates. Windows 10 operating system. Of all the programs listed, I admit, only ArcGIS may present a problem due to its complexity.


Hello Mr Tioperete, here is the first post of Vilochka about map making and the link to a russian manual.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Mr Tiopere, here is the second post of Vilochka about map making,

My understanding is that his manual does not covers all procedures according to Vilochka.

I can mod absolutely everything in DH (scenario, map resources, units images, create units, create or modify AI files, create or modify event, tech tree and effects, etc.). However, I never succeed to mod the map and I try to follow instructions in thread on this forum about that ... It seems to be very complex.

If you understand how it works, tell me and I'll try again, I am more then ready to help you and to speed up the process to reduce the workload of Vilochka.
 
Last edited:
Hello Mr Tioperete, here is the first post of Vilochka about map making and the link to a russian manual.
The map utility I have, I didnt find where Vilochka pasted the guide. Thanks
 

Attachments

  • Руководство MapUtility 1.2.5b.ru.en.pdf
    1,9 MB · Views: 0
Sorry guys. My absence is due to general workload at work and Saturday holidays. The translation of the manual into English is not perfect. I think I'll do some editing today - I see that there is something on Europe, the Middle East.
 
Sorry guys. My absence is due to general workload at work and Saturday holidays. The translation of the manual into English is not perfect. I think I'll do some editing today - I see that there is something on Europe, the Middle East.

Hello Mr Vilochka,

Good to hear that you are back, and we don't expect that you'll be present 24/7 !
I think that the only map changes that are ready are those that Nick 3210 will send you for USSR.
Outside of USSR, we have many proposed changes, but it is not final propositions (Tioperete and Nick 3210 will revised it), so can you wait before to study it.
If ever you could do a complete guide for map making in english, it would greatly appreciate, but I understand that it is a lot of work !

Have a good day
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Hello Mr Vilochka,

Good to hear that you are back, and we don't expect that you'll be present 24/7 !
I think that the only map changes that are ready are those that Nick 3210 will send you for USSR.
Outside of USSR, we have many proposed changes, but it is not final propositions (Tioperete and Nick 3210 will revised it), so can you wait before to study it.
If ever you could do a complete guide for map making in english, it would greatly appreciate, but I understand that it is a lot of work !

Have a good day
I have a translator friend and colleague from Albania who I think could do it. Google didn't translate very well.
 
While Mr. Vilochka is engaged in central and southern Ukraine, I began work on the northwest of the USSR.

While long ago, working on the total fixing of the countless errors of the vanilla DH map (distances between provinces, connections/blocks, terrain types, etc.), I noted that the northwest of the USSR was really very poorly made in vanilla map, and even if I wanted to fix it, it was very difficult for me without being able to change the design of the map.

Finally, such great opportunity has appeared and it is possible to fix this very confusing and very difficult area. This area is much more complicated than fixing errors of the Caucasus and Ukraine which were made before. And at the same time, this is a frequent place of battles in the game, so undoubtedly this area needs to be done with high quality, not like in vanilla map.

This is still about 40% of my work on the northwest.

So, everybody welcome to look for mistakes and point them out to me.
I remind, this work for fixing tons of vanilla DH map mistakes is based on very easy concept - "Common sense, based on roads maps"!
Therefore, I am always thankful if my mistakes in common sense or in the road connections are pointed out to me! :)

Leningrad-Moscow_2.jpg


Soviet 1941 Map
http://map.etomesto.ru/base/99/euro-1941-08-05-rkka.jpg
 
Last edited:
My only comments are these :

- Maybe to create from Tula province the city of Novomoskovsk (also Bobriki or Stalinogorsk). In 1939, the Pop was 76 000 inhabitants and it has coal lignite mine. So it was a territory of some importance ;
- Maybe to create the Lake Ilmen (South of Novgorod), would be used as defensive obstacle if it is well places with the borders of Staraya Russa & Borovichi provinces. It could be connected with Volkhov river ;
- Maybe to create the Rybinsk sea (reservoir), but it was completed in 1941. It could be used also a defensive obstacle if it is well place between Rybinsk and Cherepovets. It could be connected to the famous Volga River ;

For the border of the provinces in general, I do not comment, because I don't want to be rough up - I am a soft westerner.


P.S. : Maybe that some rivers and lakes in Finland and Karelia should be added for realism.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Sorry guys. My absence is due to general workload at work and Saturday holidays. The translation of the manual into English is not perfect. I think I'll do some editing today - I see that there is something on Europe, the Middle East.
When you add new provinces, do you have to add 1 more before extracting the map?
 
So, everybody welcome to look for mistakes and point them out to me.
I remind, this work for fixing tons of vanilla DH map mistakes is based on very easy concept - "Common sense, based on roads maps"!
Therefore, I am always thankful if my mistakes in common sense or in the road connections are pointed out to me! :)
The logic of the railways requires dividing the province of Gatchina into 2 Pushkin and Shlisselburg or Volkhov, which is adjacent to Lake Ladoga (the front was named after it, but unlike Shlisselburg, it was not occupied, so according to the logic of the game for the blockade of Leningrad, the province should be called Shlisselburg).