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Tinto Maps #4 - 31th of May 2024 - Poland, Ruthenia, Baltic

Hello everyone, and welcome to the fourth Tinto Maps! The feedback that we've received so far has been great, and there will be news soon regarding the map fixes that we've already done.

This week we are showing you Poland, Lithuania, Ruthenia, and the Baltic region. Let’s check it with no further ado:

Countries
Countries.jpg

A bigger picture of what’s going on in this region today, as we hadn’t shown it entirely before. To the west, the Kingdom of Poland is ruled by Casimir III of the House of Piast. It is not a completely unified kingdom, as there are several powerful vassals under him, most of them also Piasts themselves.

To the east, the Duchy of Lithuania is ruled by Gediminas, who has greatly expanded the influence of the country into Russian lands (side note: Gediminas entitled himself in his diplomatic correspondence ‘king’, but was considered by the Pope ‘king or duke’, and the title of Grand Duke wouldn’t be formally adopted until later [most likely replicating the Russian title ‘Grand Prince’]. That’s why Lithuania starts as a Duchy, although it will have an event that would make it possible to adopt the dynamic country name of ‘Grand Duchy’).

To the south, the principalities of Kyiv and Galicia-Volhynia have recently fallen under foreign influence, the first ruled by Theodor, brother of Gediminas of Lithuania; and the second by Yuri II, also from the Piast dynasty.

To the north, the Teutonic and Livonian Orders, which conquered the lands of Prussia and Livonia a century ago, are at war against Poland and Lithuania, after a long-established rivalry.

Also, a side note: we will talk about Moldavia in the Tinto Maps devoted to the Carpathian region, as it’s currently in a ‘placeholder’ spot.


Diplomacy.jpg

A new map mode, the Diplomatic one! The game starts with an ongoing war between Poland, Lithuania, and their respective vassals, on one side, and the Teutonic and Livonian Orders, and Bohemia and its vassals, on the other.

Locations
Locations.jpg

Here you have the locations of Poland, Lithuania, Ruthenia, and the Baltic region. Some issues that have already been reported by our Polish coworkers are the inconsistencies in the location naming in Polish (we’ll use proper Polish letters more thoroughly), and we’ve also started to review both the Polish and Baltic locations based on the early feedback you gave us. Oh, also, the Vistula and Curonian Lagoons missing is a bug, we’ll properly re-add them while doing the map review.

Provinces
Province.jpg

Any suggestions for provincial naming are pretty welcome, as in the last DD!

Terrain
Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg


Cultures
Cultures.jpg

The Baltic lands have an interesting mix of different cultures. ‘Western Baltic’ culture represents the people speaking a West Baltic language (Old Prussians, Yotvingians, Curonians, etc.), while ‘Prussian’ is the culture of the German settlers of that area; on that style, we have a ‘Baltic German’ culture in the lands of Livonia and Estonia that also got settled by German-speaking people. The divide between Polish, Ruthenian, and Aukstaitian might be too deep, so we will most likely add a bit more mixed situation in the borders between these cultures.

Religions
Religions.jpg

A region with a more interesting religious setup! Apart from the Catholic-Orthodox divide, you can also see the Romuva religion, which was a hot topic in 1337 (shall the Dukes of Lithuania convert to Catholicism, or stay Pagan?). Red stripes to the north are other Animist populations. Also, disregard the Sunni region to the southeast, as we have to review all the pops of the Pontic Steppes, as well.

Raw Goods
Raw Goods.jpg

From the distribution of the materials, maybe a couple of things might catch your eye. The first is that there’s an Amber good present on the shores of the Baltic Sea. The second is that the Tatra Mountains, in Slovakia, have a bunch of precious metals, which makes them a very interesting area to exploit and develop.

Population
Pops.jpg

Pops 2.png

The population of the region is divided into country and location views. Two notes: The total population of Estonia is not 711K people, that’s the total for its owner, Denmark. Second, we’ve read your feedback regarding the population map mode, and we’ll take a look at how to improve the visualization of the data, making it better for you.

EDIT: Markets
Markets.jpg

And that’s all for today! The region that we'll show next week is Italy! Cheers!
 
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I could suggest renaming Łódź Location since the city wasn't relevant until the XIX century. I think Brzeziny or Zgierz are better candidates.
 
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Why "Östra Götaland" instead of "Östergötland"? They are not the same thing. Östra Götaland would include Gotland and Småland, while Östergötland is the part above Småland, marked as "Östra Götaland" on the map.
 
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If I see correctly, it seems Poland starts in a war with the Teutonic Order?
Yes, that's the ongoing baltic crusade. The main target is Lithuania, but Poland is their ally. This is basically "solved" in 1386 by the marriage of the Lithuanian Grand Duke Jogaila to the polish 11 years old female monarch Jadwiga, and conversion of Jogaila and many lithuanian nobles to catholicism. (Wich makes the casus belli of the teutonic order than aim to convert the pagans void)

This union is the root of the later polish-lithuanian commonwealth.
 
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I would rename Cherkasy province into Kaniv, as Cherkasy was comparatively minor compared to Kaniv until later in the 16-17th centuries. Also, Podolia makes sense only as a name for that area, not a province. Rather, I'd name it Kamianets-Podilskyi, and name the area Podolia. Yelanets is better renamed into Chyhyryn area. If Chelm starts out as part of Galicia-Volhynia, it should be called Kholm (the Ruthenian name for it).

On that note, Galicia-Volhynia's formal title was the 'Kingdom of Ruthenia', granted by the pope in 1253. It was larger than the other post-Kyivan states and not really a principality, more comparable to Poland and Hungary in power.

Finally - Rusyn culture should either be part of Ruthenian (Ruthenian is just a Latin name for 'Rusyn' - those who belong to the Rus'/Ruthenia), or Ruthenian should be split up into more cultures. I think the former makes more sense. They only became separate cultures or languages later in the 18-19th centuries, when you could identify Ukrainians, Belarusians, Rusyns, etc.
 
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I only see "Silesian" culture, which I assume represents the slavic people living there, however during the game's timeframe the Silesian region was shaped by German Silesians just as much, will they be represented by their own culture this time or are they again abstractly represented by "Saxons" just like they used to be in EU4? German Silesians were mostly catholic settlers from southern Germany, so representing them as Saxons never felt right.
 
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How will splitting of Galicia-volhynia after the death of Yuri II beetween poland and lithuania be handeled ? From what I remember Casimir the great had inheritace pact with Yuri.
 
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Any reason why Maramures(Cuhea and Baia Mare) don't have any trace of Wallachian culture? The founding of Moldavia is usually attributed to Romanian nobles from that area? The town of Cuhea was even renamed to Bogdan Vodă.
 
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In 1337 duchies of Świdnica and Jawor should still be two independent countries - with at least Świdnica being on the Polish side of the ongoing war, as it was the last duchy to remain loyal to the Polish Crown - later due to succesion laws also integrating the Duchy of Jawor (the duchy was from then on known as the duchy of Świdnica-Jawor) into itself on the death of Henryk of Jawor in 1346. Only in 1392 did it come under the rule of the Bohemian king after the death of Agnieszka - the widow after duke Bolko II Świdnicki (this was due to an agreement with the Bohemian king in 1353).
The source I have is in Polish http://www.ks-j.com.pl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=311&Itemid=583&lang=pl but maybe it will help enough. Am I invested because it is my home town? Maybe, but it'd still be nice for it to be represented fairly.
Hope this helps you a bit!
 
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"The Old Ukrainian spelling from the 14th and 15th centuries was nominally *Києвъ, but various attested spellings include кїєва (gen.), Кїєвь, and Киев (acc.), кїєво or кїєвом (ins.), києвє, Кіеве, Кїєвѣ, Києвѣ, or Киѣве (loc.)." This is what Wikipedia says. Kyiv is an anachronistic name. Ukrainians called the city Kievŭ at the time. Laurentian Codex and the Novgorod Chronicle also call the city Kievŭ and they are contemporary resources using endonyms. Kiev is first attested in 1804 as an English word, Kyiw (the first attestation of the modern Ukrainian spelling) is first attested in 1884, in a Polish source. Ukrainians officially started using Kyiv in 1995. So modern politics are a no excuse to not use the historical native name IMO.

Copying this from elsewhere. Kyiv is anachronistic
 
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Hi,
Please change one location's name: Lubań (near Legnica) -> into Lwówek (modern name Lwówek Śląski). At that time Lwówek was third biggest city of Silesia with approx. Population of 11.000. Wikipedia: Lwówek śląski for source information

Edit:it was 11k
 
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Locations
View attachment 1141100
Here you have the locations of Poland, Lithuania, Ruthenia, and the Baltic region. Some issues that have already been reported by our Polish coworkers are the inconsistencies in the location naming in Polish (we’ll use proper Polish letters more thoroughly), and we’ve also started to review both the Polish and Baltic locations based on the early feedback you gave us. Oh, also, the Vistula and Curonian Lagoons missing is a bug, we’ll properly re-add them while doing the map review.

Provinces
View attachment 1141101
Any suggestions for provincial naming are pretty welcome, as in the last DD!
Of course.

  • Ukmergė as a name only emerged after World War I. Until then, the town was called Vilkmergė. It was a relatively prominent regional town so it works as a regional center.
  • Kelmė, a minor town which only started growing when a road was built over it in the 19th century, should be replaced with Kražiai, which exists in the same location, but was one of the main centres of Samogitia.
  • Similarly, Telšiai should be replaced with Medininkai (now Varniai), both as a location and province name. Medininkai/Varniai was the capital of Samogitia and a centre of local culture, while Telšiai was a less important location that began growing in the late 19th century.
  • Jurbarkas in this period is known as Georgenburg and owned by the Teutonic Knights. The Lithuanian-Teutonic border was very fuzzy until 1422, when it settled into what you depict in-game, hence you had fortresses on the other side of the border. I suppose that name could be kept, but once the Teutonic castle was destroyed it never really became prominent again. Alternatively, maybe Lower Panemunė (Žemoji Panemunė)?
  • I'd use Rietavas instead of Plungė. Rietavas was more historically prominent in this period, known as a city since 1533, while Plungė only received the same privileges late in the 18th century.
  • Upytė should replace Panevėžys both as a location and province. Upytė was a historic province of the Lithuanian state and a regional center, while Panevėžys, only founded in 1506, only replaced it as the regional center in the 19th century. (I don't propose this lightly because I am from Panevėžys myself.)
  • I'd say Eišiškės instead of Šalčininkai as well. They were a manor of the grand dukes since the late 14th century and received city status in the 16th, while Šalčininkai, again, only in the 19th century.
By the way, the border of Kėdainiai location and Kaunas location seems very weird, as if Kėdainiai cuts into half of Kaunas city.

There isn't much I can offer for the province borders because they seem very random. The location borders seem to be simply replicating the modern Lithuanian administrative borders. Trakai province awkwardly encompasses Dainava/Dzūkija and then south of Suvalkija, rather than following the real life Trakai Voivodeship at all.
 
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