• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Maps #4 - 31th of May 2024 - Poland, Ruthenia, Baltic

Hello everyone, and welcome to the fourth Tinto Maps! The feedback that we've received so far has been great, and there will be news soon regarding the map fixes that we've already done.

This week we are showing you Poland, Lithuania, Ruthenia, and the Baltic region. Let’s check it with no further ado:

Countries
Countries.jpg

A bigger picture of what’s going on in this region today, as we hadn’t shown it entirely before. To the west, the Kingdom of Poland is ruled by Casimir III of the House of Piast. It is not a completely unified kingdom, as there are several powerful vassals under him, most of them also Piasts themselves.

To the east, the Duchy of Lithuania is ruled by Gediminas, who has greatly expanded the influence of the country into Russian lands (side note: Gediminas entitled himself in his diplomatic correspondence ‘king’, but was considered by the Pope ‘king or duke’, and the title of Grand Duke wouldn’t be formally adopted until later [most likely replicating the Russian title ‘Grand Prince’]. That’s why Lithuania starts as a Duchy, although it will have an event that would make it possible to adopt the dynamic country name of ‘Grand Duchy’).

To the south, the principalities of Kyiv and Galicia-Volhynia have recently fallen under foreign influence, the first ruled by Theodor, brother of Gediminas of Lithuania; and the second by Yuri II, also from the Piast dynasty.

To the north, the Teutonic and Livonian Orders, which conquered the lands of Prussia and Livonia a century ago, are at war against Poland and Lithuania, after a long-established rivalry.

Also, a side note: we will talk about Moldavia in the Tinto Maps devoted to the Carpathian region, as it’s currently in a ‘placeholder’ spot.


Diplomacy.jpg

A new map mode, the Diplomatic one! The game starts with an ongoing war between Poland, Lithuania, and their respective vassals, on one side, and the Teutonic and Livonian Orders, and Bohemia and its vassals, on the other.

Locations
Locations.jpg

Here you have the locations of Poland, Lithuania, Ruthenia, and the Baltic region. Some issues that have already been reported by our Polish coworkers are the inconsistencies in the location naming in Polish (we’ll use proper Polish letters more thoroughly), and we’ve also started to review both the Polish and Baltic locations based on the early feedback you gave us. Oh, also, the Vistula and Curonian Lagoons missing is a bug, we’ll properly re-add them while doing the map review.

Provinces
Province.jpg

Any suggestions for provincial naming are pretty welcome, as in the last DD!

Terrain
Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg


Cultures
Cultures.jpg

The Baltic lands have an interesting mix of different cultures. ‘Western Baltic’ culture represents the people speaking a West Baltic language (Old Prussians, Yotvingians, Curonians, etc.), while ‘Prussian’ is the culture of the German settlers of that area; on that style, we have a ‘Baltic German’ culture in the lands of Livonia and Estonia that also got settled by German-speaking people. The divide between Polish, Ruthenian, and Aukstaitian might be too deep, so we will most likely add a bit more mixed situation in the borders between these cultures.

Religions
Religions.jpg

A region with a more interesting religious setup! Apart from the Catholic-Orthodox divide, you can also see the Romuva religion, which was a hot topic in 1337 (shall the Dukes of Lithuania convert to Catholicism, or stay Pagan?). Red stripes to the north are other Animist populations. Also, disregard the Sunni region to the southeast, as we have to review all the pops of the Pontic Steppes, as well.

Raw Goods
Raw Goods.jpg

From the distribution of the materials, maybe a couple of things might catch your eye. The first is that there’s an Amber good present on the shores of the Baltic Sea. The second is that the Tatra Mountains, in Slovakia, have a bunch of precious metals, which makes them a very interesting area to exploit and develop.

Population
Pops.jpg

Pops 2.png

The population of the region is divided into country and location views. Two notes: The total population of Estonia is not 711K people, that’s the total for its owner, Denmark. Second, we’ve read your feedback regarding the population map mode, and we’ll take a look at how to improve the visualization of the data, making it better for you.

EDIT: Markets
Markets.jpg

And that’s all for today! The region that we'll show next week is Italy! Cheers!
 
  • 212Love
  • 163Like
  • 10
  • 5
  • 4
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
This is maybe more for Carpathians Tinto Maps, but since you added Rusyns (Which I love, underepresented culture) , shouldnt you also include Gorals and Lemkos ? The Border between Slovakia and Poland is pretty "clean" culturally in most Paradox games, but if youre going with considerable granularity maybe including these cultures wouldnt hurt.
 
  • 13Like
  • 5
  • 2
Reactions:
For future TMs, could you provide alongside the political map a list of abbreviations in order to better understand which countries there are on the map? I imagine that with italian map next week there will be an enourms amount a countries with just one location or two.
 
  • 8
  • 1
Reactions:
Hello everyone, and welcome to the fourth Tinto Maps! The feedback that we've received so far has been great, and there will be news soon regarding the map fixes that we've already done.

This week we are showing you Poland, Lithuania, Ruthenia, and the Baltic region. Let’s check it with no further ado:

Countries
View attachment 1141116
A bigger picture of what’s going on in this region today, as we hadn’t shown it entirely before. To the west, the Kingdom of Poland is ruled by Casimir III of the House of Piast. It is not a completely unified kingdom, as there are several powerful vassals under him, most of them also Piasts themselves.

To the east, the Duchy of Lithuania is ruled by Gediminas, who has greatly expanded the influence of the country into Russian lands (side note: Gediminas entitled himself in his diplomatic correspondence ‘king’, but was considered by the Pope ‘king or duke’, and the title of Grand Duke wouldn’t be formally adopted until later [most likely replicating the Russian title ‘Grand Prince’]. That’s why Lithuania starts as a Duchy, although it will have an event that would make it possible to adopt the dynamic country name of ‘Grand Duchy’).

To the south, the principalities of Kyiv and Galicia-Volhynia have recently fallen under foreign influence, the first ruled by Theodor, brother of Gediminas of Lithuania; and the second by Yuri II, also from the Piast dynasty.

To the north, the Teutonic and Livonian Orders, which conquered the lands of Prussia and Livonia a century ago, are at war against Poland and Lithuania, after a long-established rivalry.

Also, a side note: we will talk about Moldavia in the Tinto Maps devoted to the Carpathian region, as it’s currently in a ‘placeholder’ spot.


View attachment 1141098
A new map mode, the Diplomatic one! The game starts with an ongoing war between Poland, Lithuania, and their respective vassals, on one side, and the Teutonic and Livonian Orders, and Bohemia and its vassals, on the other.

Locations
View attachment 1141100
Here you have the locations of Poland, Lithuania, Ruthenia, and the Baltic region. Some issues that have already been reported by our Polish coworkers are the inconsistencies in the location naming in Polish (we’ll use proper Polish letters more thoroughly), and we’ve also started to review both the Polish and Baltic locations based on the early feedback you gave us. Oh, also, the Vistula and Curonian Lagoons missing is a bug, we’ll properly re-add them while doing the map review.

Provinces
View attachment 1141101
Any suggestions for provincial naming are pretty welcome, as in the last DD!

Terrain
View attachment 1141106
View attachment 1141108
View attachment 1141109

Cultures
View attachment 1141110
The Baltic lands have an interesting mix of different cultures. ‘Western Baltic’ culture represents the people speaking a West Baltic language (Old Prussians, Yotvingians, Curonians, etc.), while ‘Prussian’ is the culture of the German settlers of that area; on that style, we have a ‘Baltic German’ culture in the lands of Livonia and Estonia that also got settled by German-speaking people. The divide between Polish, Ruthenian, and Aukstaitian might be too deep, so we will most likely add a bit more mixed situation in the borders between these cultures.

Religions
View attachment 1141112
A region with a more interesting religious setup! Apart from the Catholic-Orthodox divide, you can also see the Romuva religion, which was a hot topic in 1337 (shall the Dukes of Lithuania convert to Catholicism, or stay Pagan?). Red stripes to the north are other Animist populations. Also, disregard the Sunni region to the southeast, as we have to review all the pops of the Pontic Steppes, as well.

Raw Goods
View attachment 1141113
From the distribution of the materials, maybe a couple of things might catch your eye. The first is that there’s an Amber good present on the shores of the Baltic Sea. The second is that the Tatra Mountains, in Slovakia, have a bunch of precious metals, which makes them a very interesting area to exploit and develop.

Population
View attachment 1141117
View attachment 1141127
The population of the region is divided into country and location views. Two notes: The total population of Estonia is not 711K people, that’s the total for its owner, Denmark. Second, we’ve read your feedback regarding the population map mode, and we’ll take a look at how to improve the visualization of the data, making it better for you.

And that’s all for today! The region that we'll show next week is Italy! Cheers!
Ukmerge state is meant to be called Vilkmerge, The name Ukmerge wasnt adopted until after ww1
 
  • 7Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Transylvanian Culture.......?


So when many Maramureș Romanians notably crossed the carpathians East, during those times, they magically become a different culture, "Wallachians"? It doesnt make sense splitting them up. Rather they all be named "Vlach(exonym) or Rumanian(endonym) "


I like that there is some " Wallachians " in Pokutia tho, its realistic, tho Im not sure they were majority outside the immediate mountain location(s)


Also, please consider splitting up some locations in Moldova, like Soroca and Suceava. They are wayy larger, disproportionally so, compared to any nearby region.

And Lastly, also trimming the Mountains, I really want there to be locations representing the inhabited valleys in Neamț and Bacău counties, its only realistic and historical they were settled, and it would be nice to have more mountain locations for forts that existed such as Neamț or Petrodava(in ancient times). And if I am misrepresenting, and it is actually the Szekely valleys being made uninhabited, my point applies here as well. There shouldnt be such big blobs on "uninhabitable" in the carpathians, bigger than the western Caucasus even
 
Last edited:
  • 5Like
  • 4
Reactions:
In the last Tinto Maps, I did ask if there would be more countries like France in between centralized monarchies and international organizations so it looks like there's at least 1 more with Poland!

It may not be a trade good but Romuva is definitely adding much needed spice to the region!

As someone else mentioned, I don't see the trade map in this one, is still being worked on?

Regardless, thanks for the maps!
 
  • 1Like
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
Hello everyone, and welcome to the fourth Tinto Maps! The feedback that we've received so far has been great, and there will be news soon regarding the map fixes that we've already done.

This week we are showing you Poland, Lithuania, Ruthenia, and the Baltic region. Let’s check it with no further ado:

Countries
View attachment 1141116
A bigger picture of what’s going on in this region today, as we hadn’t shown it entirely before. To the west, the Kingdom of Poland is ruled by Casimir III of the House of Piast. It is not a completely unified kingdom, as there are several powerful vassals under him, most of them also Piasts themselves.

To the east, the Duchy of Lithuania is ruled by Gediminas, who has greatly expanded the influence of the country into Russian lands (side note: Gediminas entitled himself in his diplomatic correspondence ‘king’, but was considered by the Pope ‘king or duke’, and the title of Grand Duke wouldn’t be formally adopted until later [most likely replicating the Russian title ‘Grand Prince’]. That’s why Lithuania starts as a Duchy, although it will have an event that would make it possible to adopt the dynamic country name of ‘Grand Duchy’).

To the south, the principalities of Kyiv and Galicia-Volhynia have recently fallen under foreign influence, the first ruled by Theodor, brother of Gediminas of Lithuania; and the second by Yuri II, also from the Piast dynasty.

To the north, the Teutonic and Livonian Orders, which conquered the lands of Prussia and Livonia a century ago, are at war against Poland and Lithuania, after a long-established rivalry.

Also, a side note: we will talk about Moldavia in the Tinto Maps devoted to the Carpathian region, as it’s currently in a ‘placeholder’ spot.


View attachment 1141098
A new map mode, the Diplomatic one! The game starts with an ongoing war between Poland, Lithuania, and their respective vassals, on one side, and the Teutonic and Livonian Orders, and Bohemia and its vassals, on the other.

Locations
View attachment 1141100
Here you have the locations of Poland, Lithuania, Ruthenia, and the Baltic region. Some issues that have already been reported by our Polish coworkers are the inconsistencies in the location naming in Polish (we’ll use proper Polish letters more thoroughly), and we’ve also started to review both the Polish and Baltic locations based on the early feedback you gave us. Oh, also, the Vistula and Curonian Lagoons missing is a bug, we’ll properly re-add them while doing the map review.

Provinces
View attachment 1141101
Any suggestions for provincial naming are pretty welcome, as in the last DD!

Terrain
View attachment 1141106
View attachment 1141108
View attachment 1141109

Cultures
View attachment 1141110
The Baltic lands have an interesting mix of different cultures. ‘Western Baltic’ culture represents the people speaking a West Baltic language (Old Prussians, Yotvingians, Curonians, etc.), while ‘Prussian’ is the culture of the German settlers of that area; on that style, we have a ‘Baltic German’ culture in the lands of Livonia and Estonia that also got settled by German-speaking people. The divide between Polish, Ruthenian, and Aukstaitian might be too deep, so we will most likely add a bit more mixed situation in the borders between these cultures.

Religions
View attachment 1141112
A region with a more interesting religious setup! Apart from the Catholic-Orthodox divide, you can also see the Romuva religion, which was a hot topic in 1337 (shall the Dukes of Lithuania convert to Catholicism, or stay Pagan?). Red stripes to the north are other Animist populations. Also, disregard the Sunni region to the southeast, as we have to review all the pops of the Pontic Steppes, as well.

Raw Goods
View attachment 1141113
From the distribution of the materials, maybe a couple of things might catch your eye. The first is that there’s an Amber good present on the shores of the Baltic Sea. The second is that the Tatra Mountains, in Slovakia, have a bunch of precious metals, which makes them a very interesting area to exploit and develop.

Population
View attachment 1141117
View attachment 1141127
The population of the region is divided into country and location views. Two notes: The total population of Estonia is not 711K people, that’s the total for its owner, Denmark. Second, we’ve read your feedback regarding the population map mode, and we’ll take a look at how to improve the visualization of the data, making it better for you.

And that’s all for today! The region that we'll show next week is Italy! Cheers!
Please consider making zakopane mountaines location and nowy sącz hilly cuz i think its like that in reality and it might help polish playthrough
 
  • 11
  • 3Like
Reactions:
Will Province name discussions have its own Thread or should it be posted on the Tinto Maps thread?
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Am i forgoting something, but is it the first time (exepet the "alternate start date in EU4") that the game start and there is war ongoing ?

i don't think there is any of those in EU4 and we can maybe extend this to others games like Vic 3, CK3 or even HOI4 witch is insane when we talk of a game on the 2nd world war.

And with this info, i think we can expect other "wars on the start date" in the rest of the world ? am i right ?
Italy and Ethiopia are at war at game start in HOI4, but I don’t think any wars are active in 1444 or 1836
 
Hello. So interesting map.

Firstly interesting choice of name: Duchy of Lithuania. During what event if you can give details will the name be adopted of Grand duke of Lithuania? Also, you mentioned Gediminas, who was a Grand duke according to Lithuanian narrative. About the letters between him and pope. Gediminas who was one of the best dukes (in mo). He integrated Lithuania into Europe more from his letters to the Pope and Hansa. In those letters (One of which he mentions the name of capital Vilnius 1323) he called himself the king of Lithuanian, Samogitians and Many Rus (in latin is rex). He also exposed the teutons as conqureurs not bringers of christendom. During his rain there were two atempts to christianize Lithuania. First was in 1323-1324 from Livonians, second in 1341 from Checzs. Both unsucesfull because of samogitians, orthodox and even pagan court. Some legends say that Gediminas even cried, when he could not convert, because he understood the importance of it. He also invited Dominicans and Bernardins. During those years the pope forbade the teutons to atack Lithuania. Also, he married his sons and daughters strategically, two of whom will become Grand Dukes (dual monarchy) adn expand Lithuania significantly. He also made strategic alliance with poland. His daughter was married to Casimier. Alliance was made againts the Teutons. So it will be interesting to see how you impliment that :))

About locations. I would say, that Telšiai is not a good name for location. Maybe Varniai is better because it was the center of Samogitian Bishopric for a long time. Also it is older. Zarasai is relativly new name, even in 1919 the city retained: Ežerėnai, this was called in books also. Ukmergė maybe should also retain its older name: Vilkmergė, which means wolf girl, than farmers girl. Some other locations: Grodno, Ashmena maybe should retain more Lithuanian names? Because up until the deluge the Lithuanian area extendet further east.

The area of Nieman, during the wars between Lithuania and Teutons was actually quite desserted because of constant raiding and castle systems of Lithuanian and Teutons. So Lithuanians (Samogitians and Aukstaitians) did not move to those lands after the war, where they later formed Minor Lithuania culture region. Some prussians actually existed near Kaunas I believe. Cant remember now, however they were settled there and later assimilated.

Question, what does wild game goods mean? Also, i would suggest you impliment new good: Mead or honey. They were both popular up until the XVI century.

Last issue maybe west baltic culture? If you want to include the Yotvingians they extended also in the Suwalki region?

How will Lithuanian tradition of Tolerance be represented?

I can offer some literature or information more on this topic. Also back my arguments.

Keep up the good work!
 
Last edited:
  • 10Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Will it be possible for the various ethnic religions like Paganism, Shamanism, even Judaism, to spread to pops outside of specific culture groups? It'd be pretty weird for people in France to be praising Perkūnas is all I'm saying. I imagine there should be some way to restrict those religious to specific culture groups for the most part.

Also, as stated, "Romuva" is a modern Lithuanian neopagan movement, you guys should just go with "Baltic Paganism" in abscence of a better name.

About cultures. I think that splitting the Lithuanians in two might be a bit unecessary. By contrast I think Western Baltic should probably be split between "Baltic Prussian" (in contrast with "German Prussian") and Curonian. Also do the Galindians, Sudovians, Scalovians, Semigalians and Selonians no longer exist at this time?

undefined

(Latgalians I'm pretty sure are just the ancestors of the Latvians, be free to correct me on that. Both were called "Letts" before the 19th century and still are in some languages)
Modern Latvia consist of a few regions: Latgala is one of those, also Livonia, Curonia and Sela, Semigala. Mainly three parts: Curonia, Semigala and Latgala.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Will Province name discussions have its own Thread or should it be posted on the Tinto Maps thread?
And how indepth will the province naming be? Many provinces changed size and name through the period that the game represents, while the former might not be easily represented will there be dynamic name changes not only when the province changes ownership but also over time within one country driven by cultural and linguistic development?
 
For future TMs, could you provide alongside the political map a list of abbreviations in order to better understand which countries there are on the map? I imagine that with italian map next week there will be an enourms amount a countries with just one location or two.
Hmm, maybe, although there are a lot of countries in Italy... It's a good idea to ask if you want to know about a specific country, in any case.
 
  • 48Like
  • 6
Reactions:
Will there only be one Indian Tinto Map? And how much longer must I suffer
At least three, I hope. They said they're going to do all of Europe first, so it'll definitely be a while. No idea which "subcontinent" is next, though.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: