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Tinto Talks #12 - 15th of May

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, where we delve into the details of the most top-secret project ever made.

This week we talk about something that is rather new to our GSG, and that is the concept of international organizations. Now this may sound like an anachronistic term, and when you read further in this Tinto Talks, you’ll go “but you already have this in previous games”. Yes, we did have some hard-coded systems in previous games, like the Holy Roman Empire, but what we have here in Project Caesar is a completely dynamic system, 100% scriptable and extendable for modders, which allows for many of these, and with far more flavor.

What is an international organization? Well, at its heart is a group of countries that share some common things, and then quite a few attributes that can be defined for them. The instruction file right now is 140 lines long, and it will keep growing.

Some examples of things that an IO can have are the following.
  • If it has a leader or not, and if the leader is a character or a country.
  • If it's unique or there can be multiples of it.
  • If locations can be owned by it or not.
  • Member benefits or penalties.
  • Laws and Policies it can have.
  • Special statuses inside the organization
  • How members will behave during wars
  • And dozens more unique attributes.
Membership in some of these can take a diplomatic relations slot.

As we continue our development of this game, we keep adding more of these, adding more unique flavor to the game.

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We have “control-groups” like every PDS game has had since EU1, and Stellaris added icons for quick selects… The one for Project Caesar can be pretty much anything in the game, and if you start as a member of an organization, you get a control group for it from the start.

Common Organizations
Let's take a look at some of the generic ones, some of these have been hard-coded systems in previous GSGs, and these are not unique organizations in a campaign, but can exist in multiple instances.
Coalitions
These can be created, with a country as a target, when the target has an aggressive expansion beyond a certain threshold.
Unions
This is a sort of defensive alliance between countries that share the same ruler. They may or may not have different levels of integration.

There are a few others like this, including defensive leagues and tribal federations.


Religious Organizations

Catholic Church
Every country in the world that is part of the Catholic faith is a part of this organization. They have issues that the cardinals vote on, and being a member has implications and restrictions. Of course, this has the added benefit of having Catholic pops in Catholic countries paying a tithe to the Church, which eventually finds its way into the Papacy.

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One reason to go Lutheran?

Crusades & Jihads
These are temporary international organizations that will be created when a Crusade or Jihad is called. They have a target set and act like an alliance against that country.

Autocephalous Patriarchates
Meaning self-headed, an Autocephalous Patriarchate is a metropolitan bishop in the Eastern Christian confessions which acts independently and does not depend on or answer to any other hierarchically superior church authority. The different patriarchates then have their own synods of bishops to decide upon anything affecting their own religious jurisdiction.


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WiP grahics etc.

There are many of these, for Orthodox, Miaphysite, and other Eastern Christian confessions.

There are many more, some other religions have a central organization, and others have fragmented ones.


Specific Organization
There are also a fair amount of completely unique and flavorful organizations.

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What's this then?

Tatar Yoke
The Tatar Yoke consists of various principalities of Eastern Europe that are subject to Tatar Rule following their invasion in the 13th century. The most prominent of rulers is awarded the title of Grand Prince, and is tasked with collecting tribute from the other tributaries on behalf of the Golden Horde Khan.

Middle Kingdom
The Middle Kingdom is the meaning of China and has been considered the cultural center of East Asia since Antiquity.

This organization is led by the Huángdì, the Emperor of China, who has a number of Fēng Chén, akin to vassals or tributaries, that can be promoted to Celestial Governors, equivalent to the Secretariats that the Yuán dynasty used in the administrative organization of their empire. Its members have a unique societal value, Sinicized vs Unsinicized, and there’s a Tribute system that determines how much Celestial Authority the Huángdì gets, which is used to enforce Laws and Decrees.

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The Tribute system is a system where the Huángdì sends gold to the other nations in the Middle Kingdom, depending on their size.

Holy Roman Empire
The glory of the ancient Roman Empire lives in the memory of all in Europe, Charlemagne was crowned Roman Emperor, but it was not until the coronation of Otto the Great that the current Holy Roman Empire was born, once again recovering the ambitions of a revived and unified European Empire.

This organization, of course led by an Emperor, has different statuses for countries like secular and religious electors, secular princes, free cities, and imperial prelates. It has laws that impact the organization and its members, the most important at the early game being the Golden Bull, which is a must to get approved in order to further develop the institutions of the Empire.

There are others in the game at the moment, like the Shogunate, the High Kingship of Ireland, and many more, as the system is very flexible to use.

Next week we will talk about what Religions we have in the game.
 
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Could be yes, but its unique per IO if the content designer has designed it that way.
Cool, would it also be possible for a nation to 'devolve' into an international organisation with multiple members?

I.e.: A nation being split into two personal union members; Colonial states gaining more autonomy, etc.
 
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@Johan Excuse me, but I am pretty sure there are some lands east of Neumark that should be Brandenburger and not Polish. This map of Casimir III's expansions shows that these lands were not ruled by Poland until 1368 and this article also says that the territory was controlled by Brandenburg in the early 14th century.
 

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Countries does not ALWAYS have a ruler.

and if its character, if that character dies, a new leader has to be picked etc..

In real life.. USA is always the leader of NATO, even though the ruler of USA has switched quite a few times since 1945

Will the government system include more than just the ruler (heir and spouse when applicable) and 3+ advisors (assuming now that the mana system is gone)?
 
yeah, we have been trying to figure out a better name for this for the last 2.5 years we've had the system.
Humble suggestion,

I think that if you don't actually refer to them at all in the game then that might be better.

I understand that from a programming point of view it makes a lot of sense to have a modular system which you can build out from. But when you are actually playing the game, not having it actively referred to as a "International Organisation" will do a lot for making them feel more unique.

What I'm thinking is those tooltips that describe for example the HRE could be either:

"The HRE is an international organisation which exists has the following rules..."
vs.
"The HRE is an ancient network of princes, dukes, counts, bishoprics, which was originally founded when the pope crowned..."

I think my point is just that hiding some of the mechanics from the player is good for immersion.

Also a potential name is diplomatic environment.
 
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Will this mean the Emperor of the HRE will have two separate regnal numbers? For a historical example, King Karel I of Bohemia reigned as Emperor Charles IV of the HRE (international organization).
 
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Countries does not ALWAYS have a ruler.

and if its character, if that character dies, a new leader has to be picked etc..

In real life.. USA is always the leader of NATO, even though the ruler of USA has switched quite a few times since 1945
So, if I understand well, the leader of Roman Empire will always be a character, not a a nation, like in EU4: the emperor cannot be a nation with an interregnum, a regency or a female ruler (until XVIII century), right?
 
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Planning on making a Fallout mod for Ceu5ar with some people since the game seems so fitting for it and Holy shi..Roman Empire this is going to be so useful for just about everything from the NCR to the BoS, Enclave, the Legion and any diplomatic regional unification really, like the Commonwealth Provisional Government. If the system is as malleable as it seems, and I have no reason to doubt that, this will just be a joy to mod with.

Praise be and Hogspeed.
Would love to see it!
 
How does this work with say the Kalmar Union, where the Swedes were constantly trying to break away and the Danes repeatedly invaded to keep them in the union? Not much of an equal partnership.

That was an occupation by a hostile conqueror! :p
 
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I forget if this has been answered, will members of the HRE not have to worry as much about control if their lands are not connected?

Yeah, no need to worry...
 

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I asked this and I think it was a bit buried, but can international organizations have a hierarchy or "parent-child" structure? Can I have one international organization "contain" another one?
 
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Countries
I would like to follow this up asking will those two orders, the Teutonic Knights and the Livonian Order, be united under some sort of pact given the Livonian Order was historically an extension of the Teutonic Knights rather than a wholly separate order. They are described as an autonomous branch and should be under the Teutonic Knights to some capacity as the "state of the Teutonic Order"

The Maps are not entirely accurate just due to the year they are representing but it should get the idea across (hope the linking worked) The last image is a bit of a titan

Edit: perhaps i should have looked closer, from how it looks they may already be a single entity but I am a fool and fail to look at anything in detail
 

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The Principality of Moldavia did not exist in 1337. The mountainous areas of today's Moldova were inhabited by Vlachs who paid tribute to the Golden Horde. The Moldavian statehood developed along the Moldova River.
The northern areas of Moldova should be part of Galicia - Volhynia with great autonomy.

Shipinskaya land​

Shipinskaya land ( Ukrainian Shipinska land ) is the historical name of the self-governing Rusyn lands of the north-eastern Carpathian region, which existed as an autonomous territorial-economic unit from the end of the 13th to the middle of the 15th century [1] . Self-government in these lands arose as a consequence of the weakening of the power of the Galician-Volyn principality under the blows of the Tatar-Mongols. However, due to numerous river barriers, the latter reached here extremely rarely, and therefore the Lviv - Suceava trade route remained untouched, which allowed the Shipino population to organize fairly profitable fairs and for some time lead a fairly independent lifestyle. The latter attracted Vlach herders, who were being pushed out of Transylvania by the Hungarians. Local Rusyns, like the Wallachians , adhered to Orthodoxy.

Population

During its heyday, at the end of the XIV - beginning of the XV centuries. in the Shipinsky territory there were over a hundred villages, some of which arose here during the times of Kievan Rus ( Vasliev , Onut , Kitsman , Repuzhintsy , Kuchurov ), others appeared here already during the heyday of local self-government at the end of the 13th - beginning of the 14th century. ( Luzhany , Glyboka , Vashkivtsi ), and a couple of new villages arose with the arrival of the Vlachs (Romanians) in the 14th century ( Rokitna , Tarasovtsi ).

History

In 1349 , the Shipinsky land became dependent on Catholic Poland. Fighting the latter, the Shipka population chose to unite with the Principality of Moldova, within which it retained autonomy, which was gradually eliminated.

In the Late Middle Age, chronicles mention a Tigheci "republic", predating the establishment of the Principality of Moldavia, situated near the modern town of Cahul in the southwest of Bessarabia, preserving its autonomy even during the later Principality even into the 18th century. Genovese merchants rebuilt or established a number of forts along the Dniester (notably Moncastro) and Danube (including Kyliya/Chilia-Licostomo).[


-Light green color, Wallachian tribes dependent on Hungary and the Golden Horde.
-Yellow color Golden Horde
- Red color Wallachia
- Color: dark pink Galicia-Volhynia

Greater_Romania.JPG
 
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Can a association be created mid-game? like i'm a modder and i want to create a decision for the french to institute a association in Italy/Rhine to influence politics there (kinda like Macedon forcing all the greek states being allies under their hegemony)
 
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