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Tinto Talks #12 - 15th of May

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, where we delve into the details of the most top-secret project ever made.

This week we talk about something that is rather new to our GSG, and that is the concept of international organizations. Now this may sound like an anachronistic term, and when you read further in this Tinto Talks, you’ll go “but you already have this in previous games”. Yes, we did have some hard-coded systems in previous games, like the Holy Roman Empire, but what we have here in Project Caesar is a completely dynamic system, 100% scriptable and extendable for modders, which allows for many of these, and with far more flavor.

What is an international organization? Well, at its heart is a group of countries that share some common things, and then quite a few attributes that can be defined for them. The instruction file right now is 140 lines long, and it will keep growing.

Some examples of things that an IO can have are the following.
  • If it has a leader or not, and if the leader is a character or a country.
  • If it's unique or there can be multiples of it.
  • If locations can be owned by it or not.
  • Member benefits or penalties.
  • Laws and Policies it can have.
  • Special statuses inside the organization
  • How members will behave during wars
  • And dozens more unique attributes.
Membership in some of these can take a diplomatic relations slot.

As we continue our development of this game, we keep adding more of these, adding more unique flavor to the game.

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We have “control-groups” like every PDS game has had since EU1, and Stellaris added icons for quick selects… The one for Project Caesar can be pretty much anything in the game, and if you start as a member of an organization, you get a control group for it from the start.

Common Organizations
Let's take a look at some of the generic ones, some of these have been hard-coded systems in previous GSGs, and these are not unique organizations in a campaign, but can exist in multiple instances.
Coalitions
These can be created, with a country as a target, when the target has an aggressive expansion beyond a certain threshold.
Unions
This is a sort of defensive alliance between countries that share the same ruler. They may or may not have different levels of integration.

There are a few others like this, including defensive leagues and tribal federations.


Religious Organizations

Catholic Church
Every country in the world that is part of the Catholic faith is a part of this organization. They have issues that the cardinals vote on, and being a member has implications and restrictions. Of course, this has the added benefit of having Catholic pops in Catholic countries paying a tithe to the Church, which eventually finds its way into the Papacy.

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One reason to go Lutheran?

Crusades & Jihads
These are temporary international organizations that will be created when a Crusade or Jihad is called. They have a target set and act like an alliance against that country.

Autocephalous Patriarchates
Meaning self-headed, an Autocephalous Patriarchate is a metropolitan bishop in the Eastern Christian confessions which acts independently and does not depend on or answer to any other hierarchically superior church authority. The different patriarchates then have their own synods of bishops to decide upon anything affecting their own religious jurisdiction.


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WiP grahics etc.

There are many of these, for Orthodox, Miaphysite, and other Eastern Christian confessions.

There are many more, some other religions have a central organization, and others have fragmented ones.


Specific Organization
There are also a fair amount of completely unique and flavorful organizations.

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What's this then?

Tatar Yoke
The Tatar Yoke consists of various principalities of Eastern Europe that are subject to Tatar Rule following their invasion in the 13th century. The most prominent of rulers is awarded the title of Grand Prince, and is tasked with collecting tribute from the other tributaries on behalf of the Golden Horde Khan.

Middle Kingdom
The Middle Kingdom is the meaning of China and has been considered the cultural center of East Asia since Antiquity.

This organization is led by the Huángdì, the Emperor of China, who has a number of Fēng Chén, akin to vassals or tributaries, that can be promoted to Celestial Governors, equivalent to the Secretariats that the Yuán dynasty used in the administrative organization of their empire. Its members have a unique societal value, Sinicized vs Unsinicized, and there’s a Tribute system that determines how much Celestial Authority the Huángdì gets, which is used to enforce Laws and Decrees.

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The Tribute system is a system where the Huángdì sends gold to the other nations in the Middle Kingdom, depending on their size.

Holy Roman Empire
The glory of the ancient Roman Empire lives in the memory of all in Europe, Charlemagne was crowned Roman Emperor, but it was not until the coronation of Otto the Great that the current Holy Roman Empire was born, once again recovering the ambitions of a revived and unified European Empire.

This organization, of course led by an Emperor, has different statuses for countries like secular and religious electors, secular princes, free cities, and imperial prelates. It has laws that impact the organization and its members, the most important at the early game being the Golden Bull, which is a must to get approved in order to further develop the institutions of the Empire.

There are others in the game at the moment, like the Shogunate, the High Kingship of Ireland, and many more, as the system is very flexible to use.

Next week we will talk about what Religions we have in the game.
 
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Why is Tibet called the "Grand Theocracy of Tibet"? I have never seen it have a title at all, let alone such a grand one. Is it based on a direct translation of the title of the leader of the Sakya sect?
 
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The Principality of Moldavia did not exist in 1337. The mountainous areas of today's Moldova were inhabited by Vlachs who paid tribute to the Golden Horde. The Moldavian statehood developed along the Moldova River.
The northern areas of Moldova should be part of Galicia - Volhynia with great autonomy.

Shipinskaya land​

Shipinskaya land ( Ukrainian Shipinska land ) is the historical name of the self-governing Rusyn lands of the north-eastern Carpathian region, which existed as an autonomous territorial-economic unit from the end of the 13th to the middle of the 15th century [1] . Self-government in these lands arose as a consequence of the weakening of the power of the Galician-Volyn principality under the blows of the Tatar-Mongols. However, due to numerous river barriers, the latter reached here extremely rarely, and therefore the Lviv - Suceava trade route remained untouched, which allowed the Shipino population to organize fairly profitable fairs and for some time lead a fairly independent lifestyle. The latter attracted Vlach herders, who were being pushed out of Transylvania by the Hungarians. Local Rusyns, like the Wallachians , adhered to Orthodoxy.

Population

During its heyday, at the end of the XIV - beginning of the XV centuries. in the Shipinsky territory there were over a hundred villages, some of which arose here during the times of Kievan Rus ( Vasliev , Onut , Kitsman , Repuzhintsy , Kuchurov ), others appeared here already during the heyday of local self-government at the end of the 13th - beginning of the 14th century. ( Luzhany , Glyboka , Vashkivtsi ), and a couple of new villages arose with the arrival of the Vlachs (Romanians) in the 14th century ( Rokitna , Tarasovtsi ).

History

In 1349 , the Shipinsky land became dependent on Catholic Poland. Fighting the latter, the Shipka population chose to unite with the Principality of Moldova, within which it retained autonomy, which was gradually eliminated.
As for the southern lands, these areas should be under the control of Wallachia and Genoa.

The last large-scale invasions were those of the Mongols of 1241, 1290, and 1343. Sehr al-Jedid (near Orhei), an important settlement of the Golden Horde, dates from this period. They led to a retreat of a big part of the population to the mountainous areas in Eastern Carpathians and to Transylvania. The population east of Prut became especially low at the time of the Tatar invasions.
After the Mongol invasion of 1241, the rebuilt coastal cities of Budjak (Maurocastro and Licostomo) came under the domination of Genoese traders. The interior however remained under the direct Mongol rule of the Golden Horde. According to a widespread view in Romanian historiography, sometime during the 14th century Wallachia's princes of the House of Basarab extended their authority over part of the territory. The same theory asserts that the region remained under Wallachian influence until the early 15th century, during the reign of Mircea the Elder, when the area was integrated into Moldavia by prince Alexander the Kind. The name Bessarabia, derived from the name of the Wallachian ruling house, is the main argument for this theory, though the name, attested only in the late 15th century, may arise from a cartographic confusion. Nogai Tatars, who had settled herds in the region after the 1240s, inhabited the steppe, while Romanians inhabited the surrounding hills and the port cities.

-Light green color, Wallachian tribes dependent on Hungary and the Golden Horde.
-Yellow color Golden Horde
- Red color Wallachia
- Color: dark pink Galicia-Volhynia



View attachment 1133591
The Genoese traders controlled Kilia, but it's not particularly likely they controlled much outside of that. It's worth noting that the Byzantines also had a port in the same area at the time: Vicina. I think both are probably best represented through some building in the location owned by the Byzantines and the Genoese, rather than entirely carved-out locations.

It's also worth noting that in... 1321, if I recall, the Golden Horde gave Bulgaria control of Bessarabia up to the Dniester, but then rescinded that control in 1330, at some point occupying Vicina somewhere in the year range of 1332 to 1337.

I think, therefore, that Bessarabia should be under Golden Horde control in 1337. See my post here for sources.
 
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However, I think it should work the following way..

An alliance between France and Ulm should cost MORE for Ulm than France.
Or maybe it could just cost the same but, given that Ulm would have much less diplo capacity than France, it would cost much more relatively to its capacity.
 
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One of the things I like in EU4 is how many of the systems are totally bespoke. The Mandate has a totally different UI from the HRE and the Catholic Church is totally different from any other religion. I fear that with these all becoming a single system 'International organisations' they might end up rather generic like the religions in CK3. Can you post a picture of the HRE ui to show us how special it is and assuage my fears ;)
 
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What eactly makes the HRE an IO but France a regualr tag with a bunch of subjects? From my understanding they're both heavily decentralised European feudal realms, with the only difference that one is hereditary while the other is elective, and that one centralised in real life while the other decentralised even further.
 
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Could it be that Bohemia was selected to make this screenshot? Or if not, who was selected?
 
Will the Political Mapmode cover the entire HRE under a single color, or will my eyes bleed from the kaleidoscopic cacophony that will be Central Europe?
 
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Hello. I would like to point out an inaccueacy from some of the older maps that i have seen about Eastern Europe.
The region of Wallachia and Moldavia more specific.
In starting year of 1337 Moldova tehnicaly was just founded by Dragoș, but we dont know when and most likely it was not organized as a centrilised state even. We dont realy know detiles but the area where is now Moldova was not realy rulled by nobody.
The part of Moldova that is next to the Black Sea was owned at that time by Wallachia which was founded prior to 1337.
Again, we have no ideea how many romanians actualy lived there and what was happening, but the portion between Danube and Nistru river close to the sea was owned for sure by Wallachia.

For balancing reasons i might see why Paradox would probably try to make the 2 sides as powerful by giving Moldova some more land than what they owned, but i feel like this should be pointed out.

Indeed, after a few decades the moldavians have taken control over the area and they kept it for like less than 100 years till Ștefan the Great had lost it to the ottomans in late 1400's.

By thr way, that piece of land is called Basarabia and it's name is coming after the name of the rulling dinasty of Wallachia, the Basarabs.

Cheers :)
 
I'm curious how dynamic the organization system is in game? Could a player create an economic organization similar maybe like the continental system to try and cripple a country economically or increase economic power of the members of the organization? Could the player create a defensive organizations of historically colonized countries only targeting colonizers? Could the player create *their own* system similar to the holy Roman Empire with electors and an Emperor but in Indonesia or something? I know the last one is a far stretch but I'm just wondering just how dynamic this can be.
 
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