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Tinto Talks #50 - 12th February 2025

Hey everyone, and welcome back. Johan is busy today (allegedly) so instead I will walk you through this Tinto Talks on Formable Countries in our little project called Caesar. It’s a fairly tight feature so this should be nice and quick.



What are Formable Countries?

Basically, formable countries are new tags that you can switch to. Typically they represent historical unions and conquests, but some represent aspirations that never materialised.

Generally speaking, the vision behind Formables is to offer roleplaying and historical immersion, and support player fantasies, rather than modifier stacking. They will change your country name, national flag, and map color. So while you may unlock some content such as advances or other minor unique content, the tag change is often the goal in itself.

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Spain gets some unique advances in the later ages, but not all do.

Rather than your country changing automatically every age, you achieve it by completing certain objectives. Usually, you'll need to control a certain percentage of a predefined set of locations, for example Scandinavia needs 75% of the locations in the Scandinavia region.

There’s typically additional requirements as well such as your Primary Culture belonging to a certain Culture Group. Forming Spain also requires you and all the independent countries in Iberia to be Christian, as it is thematically closely tied to the completion of the Reconquista. Iberian Muslims have the reverse rules for forming Al-Andalus.

Some are directly tied to actions in International Organizations, like the Holy Roman Empire or the Ilkhanate.

Formables also have a Tier that represents their natural order of precedence. You can only form countries that are the same or higher tier than you. For example, England (Tier 2) can form Great Britain (Tier 3) but Great Britain can’t form England. The AI will only form countries that are a higher tier.


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Country formation is just a click away.


There are 3 settings to the relevant game rule.
  1. Only Historical Formable Countries
    1. Only countries that actually formed in the game’s time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Spain and Great Britain
  2. Allow Plausible Formable Countries(Default)
    1. Countries that could plausible have formed, or formed just after the time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Germany and Italy
  3. Allow Ahistorical Formable Countries
    1. Aspirational or fantasy countries can be formed. Examples include
      1. North Sea Empire (which is a Tier IV) if you control Britain and Scandinavia
      2. Europa (Tier V)



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Some countries have different flags depending on the exact manner in which they are formed. For example this variant of the Union Jack with a dominant saltire when you start as Scotland.


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And some formables come with little treats to sweeten the deal.


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The Teutonic Order has a long way to go before they can become Prussia…


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But it might be worth it…


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Some exist to fulfil common player fantasies, but only appear if the player chooses in the Game Rules to have the less historical ones.



This is our current list of formable countries, let us know which ones you would like us add!

FormableTierNote
Europa5Ahistorical
Rome4Ahistorical
Hindustan4Plausible
Holy Roman Empire4Plausible
Byzantium4
Ilkhanate4
Iran4
Mongolia4
Mughals4
Rûm4
Russia4
United States4
Celtica3Ahistorical
Latin Empire3Ahistorical
North Sea3Ahistorical
Al-Andalus3Plausible
Arabia3Plausible
Canada3Plausible
Egypt3Plausible
Germany3Plausible
Italy3Plausible
Malaya3Plausible
Ruthenia3Plausible
Scandinavia3Plausible
Shan3Plausible
Banten3
Bengal3
Deccan3
Delhi3
Ethiopia3
Great Britain3
Gujurat3
Hausa3
Inca3
Kongo3
Manchu3
Maratha3
Mexico3
Poland-Lithuania3
Punjab3
Rajput3
Siam3
Sokoto3
Spain3
Timurids3
Two Sicilies3
Yamato3
Africa2Ahistorical
Carthage2Ahistorical
Hen Ogledd2Ahistorical
Aotearoa2Plausible
Greece2Plausible
Jerusalem2Plausible
Livonia2Plausible
Maya2Plausible
Albania2
Armenia2
Austria2
Ayutthaya2
Bahamis2
England2
Georgia2
Golden Horde2
Holstein2
Ireland2
Navarre2
Nepal2
Netherlands2
Poland2
Prussia2
Scotland2
Serbia2
Sweden2
Switzerland2
Tibet2
Wales2
Connacht1Plausible
Ulster1Plausible
Aïr1
Bavaria1
Beja1
Mazovia1
Mecklenburg1
Mossi1
Nassau1
Northumbria1
Pomerania1
Sardinia1
Saxony1
Silesia1


That's it for today's dev diary. Thanks for reading, and we'll see you next time, where we will talk about Subject Types, and an interesting part of the Castilian player fantasy…
 
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Any chance we can change Inca to Tahuantinsuyo?

also, I know it's a very long shot but if you consider my suggestion of adding the Taino cacicazgos of Hispaniola as tags It would be cool to be able to form Quisqueya if one manages to unify the island as them.
Maybe Inca/ Tahiantinsuyo could be a setting like Byzantium/East Rome
 
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I recall a post on the EU4 forums titled “Can we have a formable Illyria, please?” (I guess I can’t include a link atm)

I found it compelling enough, especially considering that Spain derived its own name to the Roman province of Hispania after all, so it wouldn’t be too unreasonable to think a Latin country dominating in this region could take on an Illyrian identity, especially if the term was allegedly still in use during this period.

As for other formables, Siqilliya (Muslim Sicily) comes to mind, although at this point in time it might be more ahistorical.
Latin country? My brother in Christ, read up on illyrian movement. All's i'm saying if anything it should be a different name for Yugoslavia. My point it should be a formable for anyone having certain provinces, albania, whoever.
 
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Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Slavonia, etc. should exist as "plausible" imo
- the Union of Poland, Bohemia and Hungary perhaps should form the Visegrad Union (as reference to the 1335 and 1339 congresses of Visegrád), with its flag being the flags of the constituent kingdoms quartered
- "Lands of the Crown of Saint Stephen" as an optional formable union of Hungary and Croatia under some situations?
- the "Danubian Republic" did exist as a concept for a while
Romania definitely sounds plausible, but I think the others work better as revolter/releasable tags, not everything needs to be reformable imo.

Similarly the St. Stephen Crown or Visegrad Union is already covered by the PU mechanics, no need for a separate tag for them.

The Danubian Republic/Confederacy/Union on the other hand, does feel like it would be fulfilling a niche and have historical basis, so I support it.
 
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The Latin Empire still exists nominally. The Latin Empress Catherine II (half-sister to King Philippe VI of France) still lives in 1337, but the tag itself lost all of their lands less than 100 years ago. Will there be events to help Catherine reform it somehow, as she has no land to her name?
Catherine dies 9 years into the game and her son and heir is the Prince of Achaea and she's his regent and co-ruler for all intents and purposes so I expect Achaea to be her tag.
 
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I have a couple of suggestions about formable countries:
1) Panslavia. Basically Eastern Europe + Russia + Balkans. Pretty self explanatory.
2) Zaporozhian Sich. This is a "country" of cossacks, which wasn't exactly a state but rather a military organisation.
3) Kazakhstan. Pretty self explanatory as well.
4) Crimea/Crimean khanate. It was under Ottoman influence for a long time and they waged war against Russia, cossacks and Poland iirc.
5) Transylvania, somebody has to fight those Ottomans :D
6) Austro-Hungary, 'cause why not?
7) Angevin empire, it was in EU4.
8) Rome is Roman empire, right? This is not a suggestion but I don't understand why it's tier 4 and Europe is tier 5. It should be bigger than Europe, shouldn't it?
 
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Regarding the New World nations, it seems to me it lacks a bit of granularity. But it might be because these are only formable nations, and not colonial nations?

For example, I would have suggested other New World nations that could be just as plausible as Canada and United States : Louisiana, Quebec, Newfoundland, Acadie or Acadia, Nieuw-Nederland, etc. Are these represented already but as colonial nations ?

Also regarding Canada : it should have quite a different flag if formed by Great Britain/England, France, the Netherlands, etc.

Here are examples, and you have my full permission to use these if you want to (the ones I created).

English Canada (current one)
French Canada (New France flag)
Dutch Canada (fictional, I'm the creator - using the Oregon beaver flag)
Scottish Canada (fictional, I'm the creator)
 

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Formable country suggestion:

Great Seljuk Empire (Ahistorical)
(1 tier above Rûm)

Condition: Is Rûm
Condition: Have the dynasty Al-e Saljuk (Kubadids start as Seljuk dynasty)

There is also required lands to own in Persia and Khorasan etc I am leaving that to devs :)
 
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Latin country? My brother in Christ, read up on illyrian movement. All's i'm saying if anything it should be a different name for Yugoslavia. My point it should be a formable for anyone having certain provinces, albania, whoever.
Fair point! I wasn’t aware of that movement, but I guess that’s all the more reason for it be a potential formable for most countries in that region then
 
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A lot of the Eu4 regional formables in/near the HRE are missing, notably Lotharingia, Swabia, Franconia, Hanover, and Tuscany. Why is Mecklenburg is formable but Hanover isn't? I've always thought those made good mid-game goals particularly given how limited early expansion is in the HRE. There also aren't many new world formables. If Mexico, the United States, and Canada are formable it feels strange that none of the South American post-colonial states are formable.
 
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I'd argue that the Latin Empire should be under "plausible". If we think to EU4, we start with the church union, and one plausible way to have gone would be to appeal to the Pope for help even more, and adhering to said union under him. Making catholicism the state religion of Byzantium and it becoming the "Latin Empire", or what if, plausibly, a catholic nation conquered Greece? Just like with releasing Jerusalem as an independent kingdom after the Crusade, releasing the Latin Empire and installing the current Latin Empress in exile to the throne could also have been "plausible".

Maybe Rome should also be moved to "plausible"? I mean, seizing the mantle of Roman Empire happened so many times in history, even by the Ottomans, and don't you think it would be plausible, that if the Ottomans did conquer Italy, it would have "solidified" it's claim to be the Roman Empire or something? I mean, with the Eastern Roman Empire literally still alive at this time, I would not put Rome on the same level as someone LARPing as ancient Carthage.
 
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Shan3Plausible

I don't think this makes sense as a formable when Burma isn't one, it seems more like a leftover from early EU4 when there was just one big "Shan" blob, and the tag was never removed from the game.

If Burma isn't a formable because they're usually referred to by their dynasty names, e.g Pagan, Ava, Taungoo, Konbaung, then the same applies for the Shan states who were united under Möng Mao (1340s-1440s), Möng Yang (1527-1555), and also several legendary Shan empires with different names (Hsenwi/Kawsampi, Lanjao, Pong, Tagaung).
 
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