• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Talks #50 - 12th February 2025

Hey everyone, and welcome back. Johan is busy today (allegedly) so instead I will walk you through this Tinto Talks on Formable Countries in our little project called Caesar. It’s a fairly tight feature so this should be nice and quick.



What are Formable Countries?

Basically, formable countries are new tags that you can switch to. Typically they represent historical unions and conquests, but some represent aspirations that never materialised.

Generally speaking, the vision behind Formables is to offer roleplaying and historical immersion, and support player fantasies, rather than modifier stacking. They will change your country name, national flag, and map color. So while you may unlock some content such as advances or other minor unique content, the tag change is often the goal in itself.

Screenshot 2025-02-12 113332.png
Screenshot 2025-02-12 112612.png

Spain gets some unique advances in the later ages, but not all do.

Rather than your country changing automatically every age, you achieve it by completing certain objectives. Usually, you'll need to control a certain percentage of a predefined set of locations, for example Scandinavia needs 75% of the locations in the Scandinavia region.

There’s typically additional requirements as well such as your Primary Culture belonging to a certain Culture Group. Forming Spain also requires you and all the independent countries in Iberia to be Christian, as it is thematically closely tied to the completion of the Reconquista. Iberian Muslims have the reverse rules for forming Al-Andalus.

Some are directly tied to actions in International Organizations, like the Holy Roman Empire or the Ilkhanate.

Formables also have a Tier that represents their natural order of precedence. You can only form countries that are the same or higher tier than you. For example, England (Tier 2) can form Great Britain (Tier 3) but Great Britain can’t form England. The AI will only form countries that are a higher tier.


Screenshot 2025-02-12 124554.png

Country formation is just a click away.


There are 3 settings to the relevant game rule.
  1. Only Historical Formable Countries
    1. Only countries that actually formed in the game’s time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Spain and Great Britain
  2. Allow Plausible Formable Countries(Default)
    1. Countries that could plausible have formed, or formed just after the time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Germany and Italy
  3. Allow Ahistorical Formable Countries
    1. Aspirational or fantasy countries can be formed. Examples include
      1. North Sea Empire (which is a Tier IV) if you control Britain and Scandinavia
      2. Europa (Tier V)



Screenshot 2025-02-12 121247.png

Some countries have different flags depending on the exact manner in which they are formed. For example this variant of the Union Jack with a dominant saltire when you start as Scotland.


1739361227786.png

And some formables come with little treats to sweeten the deal.


Screenshot 2025-02-12 123920.png

The Teutonic Order has a long way to go before they can become Prussia…


Screenshot 2025-02-12 124144.png

But it might be worth it…


Screenshot 2025-02-12 121702.png

Some exist to fulfil common player fantasies, but only appear if the player chooses in the Game Rules to have the less historical ones.



This is our current list of formable countries, let us know which ones you would like us add!

FormableTierNote
Europa5Ahistorical
Rome4Ahistorical
Hindustan4Plausible
Holy Roman Empire4Plausible
Byzantium4
Ilkhanate4
Iran4
Mongolia4
Mughals4
Rûm4
Russia4
United States4
Celtica3Ahistorical
Latin Empire3Ahistorical
North Sea3Ahistorical
Al-Andalus3Plausible
Arabia3Plausible
Canada3Plausible
Egypt3Plausible
Germany3Plausible
Italy3Plausible
Malaya3Plausible
Ruthenia3Plausible
Scandinavia3Plausible
Shan3Plausible
Banten3
Bengal3
Deccan3
Delhi3
Ethiopia3
Great Britain3
Gujurat3
Hausa3
Inca3
Kongo3
Manchu3
Maratha3
Mexico3
Poland-Lithuania3
Punjab3
Rajput3
Siam3
Sokoto3
Spain3
Timurids3
Two Sicilies3
Yamato3
Africa2Ahistorical
Carthage2Ahistorical
Hen Ogledd2Ahistorical
Aotearoa2Plausible
Greece2Plausible
Jerusalem2Plausible
Livonia2Plausible
Maya2Plausible
Albania2
Armenia2
Austria2
Ayutthaya2
Bahamis2
England2
Georgia2
Golden Horde2
Holstein2
Ireland2
Navarre2
Nepal2
Netherlands2
Poland2
Prussia2
Scotland2
Serbia2
Sweden2
Switzerland2
Tibet2
Wales2
Connacht1Plausible
Ulster1Plausible
Aïr1
Bavaria1
Beja1
Mazovia1
Mecklenburg1
Mossi1
Nassau1
Northumbria1
Pomerania1
Sardinia1
Saxony1
Silesia1


That's it for today's dev diary. Thanks for reading, and we'll see you next time, where we will talk about Subject Types, and an interesting part of the Castilian player fantasy…
 
Last edited:
  • 183Like
  • 83Love
  • 12
  • 8
  • 3
Reactions:
Hey, uh, why is what is presumably Japan (given it's listed as 'historical', if it's referring to a Japanese China or something like that, these points still apply + it shouldn't be 'historical') named 'Yamato'? That was never used as a name for the entire country by most people in time frame (which is what a Tier 3 formable implies given that its' peers are Spain, the Two Sicilies, and the TImurids), largely only referring to the Yamato province:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato_Province

Yamato as a wider term (outside of China itself) was never applied to the country itself, and is as a term for a wider group emerged during the Meiji Restoration (outside of time frame)... as a result of scientific racism, eventually used to justify the numerous atrocities and genocides the Imperial Japanese government engaged in:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Investigation_of_Global_Policy_with_the_Yamato_Race_as_Nucleus
(Whilst it is generally acceptable to use it as an ethnic term nowadays, just having a 'historical' formable be tied to an ethnic name that only emerged following the Meiji Restoration is a bit abnormal compared to the others.)

So, if it's a replacement formable for Japan, it just shouldn't exist (and be renamed either Japan or, as Japan called AND calls itself, Nihon/Nippon), and if it's meant as a Japanese China following the ideals of Hideoyoshi, it should both be renamed (as it was never used as a dynastic name even by the Chinese, but as a term for 'the people over there' (more accurately, 'dwarf'/'submissive')) and set as Plausible or Ahistorical, not Historical, given that HIdeoyoshi's plan completely failed, was not plausible beyond Korea, and that even if it had succeeded, they would have adopted a proper dynastic name like the Mongols did with the Yuan and not just a name that the Japanese didn't even use for themselves and just used for. A singular province. (Likely something akin to how Japanese scribes altered Wa to mean 'peace, harmony, balance'. Could go off Hexgram 11 (Tài) like how the Yuan went off Hexgram 1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hexagrams_of_the_I_Ching#Hexagram_1))
(Reminder that Yamato literally translates to 'Great 'Dwarf' (with the great added on specifically because the Wa/'dwarf' part was seen as a slur). So, it'd also be inconsistent with the other Chinese dynasty names shown if this is the intention. And I don't think you could get away with just calling them. Wa.)

Most of the other formables seem fine, with some silliness here and there (though luckily mostly locked with the formable tiers and types). I just had problem with this specific one.
 
  • 6Like
Reactions:
something i think is important to differentiate;
  • arabia (plausible) -> country based in arabian peninsula (so cultures of yemen, hejaz, nejd, oman could form it), could be argued this nation exists today (saudi arabia)
  • arab kingdom/arab republic (plausible or fantasy) -> country based on arab culture(s), which could be any culture from iraq to egypt (or maybe even maghreb included). this country never existed (unless you count the shortlived united arab republic), but was the aspiration of pan-arab movements of 20th centuries (nasserism, baathism)
arabia is a geographical location (arabian peninsula) while arab is arab speaker and/or arab culture. someone in marocco can be arab, but they are def not from arabia. arabia would be maybe tier 2, and arab kingdom/republic maybe tier 3-4.

edit; other plausibles
  • kurdistan
  • turkey
  • iraq/mesopotamia (maybe its a releasable like eu4)
edit2; maybe modern nation states should be available after a certain age, for instance when nationalism became a big thing among the people
 
Last edited:
Hey, uh, why is what is presumably Japan (given it's listed as 'historical', if it's referring to a Japanese China or something like that, these points still apply + it shouldn't be 'historical') named 'Yamato'? That was never used as a name for the entire country by most people in time frame (which is what a Tier 3 formable implies given that its' peers are Spain, the Two Sicilies, and the TImurids), largely only referring to the Yamato province:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato_Province

Yamato as a wider term (outside of China itself) was never applied to the country itself, and is as a term for a wider group emerged during the Meiji Restoration (outside of time frame)... as a result of scientific racism, eventually used to justify the numerous atrocities and genocides the Imperial Japanese government engaged in:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Investigation_of_Global_Policy_with_the_Yamato_Race_as_Nucleus
(Whilst it is generally acceptable to use it as an ethnic term nowadays, just having a 'historical' formable be tied to an ethnic name that only emerged following the Meiji Restoration is a bit abnormal compared to the others.)

So, if it's a replacement formable for Japan, it just shouldn't exist (and be renamed either Japan or, as Japan called AND calls itself, Nihon/Nippon), and if it's meant as a Japanese China following the ideals of Hideoyoshi, it should both be renamed (as it was never used as a dynastic name even by the Chinese, but as a term for 'the people over there' (more accurately, 'dwarf'/'submissive')) and set as Plausible or Ahistorical, not Historical, given that HIdeoyoshi's plan completely failed, was not plausible beyond Korea, and that even if it had succeeded, they would have adopted a proper dynastic name like the Mongols did with the Yuan and not just a name that the Japanese didn't even use for themselves and just used for. A singular province. (Likely something akin to how Japanese scribes altered Wa to mean 'peace, harmony, balance'. Could go off Hexgram 11 (Tài) like how the Yuan went off Hexgram 1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hexagrams_of_the_I_Ching#Hexagram_1))
(Reminder that Yamato literally translates to 'Great 'Dwarf' (with the great added on specifically because the Wa/'dwarf' part was seen as a slur). So, it'd also be inconsistent with the other Chinese dynasty names shown if this is the intention. And I don't think you could get away with just calling them. Wa.)

Most of the other formables seem fine, with some silliness here and there (though luckily mostly locked with the formable tiers and types). I just had problem with this specific one.
I mentioned this in the list I just made.
和,He,grade:4
  • If one of the following conditions is met, it is sufficient
    • Starting from Japan, it is Japanese culture that has unified Japan
  • Special conditions:You have taken over the tribute system and become the new core, declaring yourself the true China.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
North German Confederation: Plausible--a couple decades past end date but if we're doing a Germany formable it could be a good precursor
1739389802458.png

Territory of North German Confederation; blue is Prussia. From wikipedia

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


South German Confederation: Plausible--never came to fruition but was proposed, same idea as a precursor but led by a Southern German nation (Austria, Bavaria, Württemburg, Baden, Franconia, etc.)
1739390095097.png

South German Confederation from r/witherboss on Reddit

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Lechitia/West Slavic Union: Ahistorical--some kind of united west-slavic formable would be super interesting given in our history the Germans pushed east until many of these tribes assimilated or disappeared, leaving their languages forgotten. Requirements could be to take and reslavicize the East German territories while controlling the other Lechitic nations. This would ideally include the Czechoslovak nations, but it's understandable if they weren't since they were made their own language group.
1739389850406.png

West Slavic Tribes c. 9th-10th A.D. From
wikipedia

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Polabia: Ahistorical--Lechitic nation in east Germany. This could be formed by Mecklenburg, given they were ruled by an originally Lechitic Obotrite dynasty. This is the only Lechitic formable I'm proposing since Lusatia already exists in the game and Mazovia, Pomerania, Poland, and Silesia are on the formable list.
Polabian_Slavs.png

Map of Polabian tribes; green is forest. From wikipedia
 
Last edited:
  • 4Like
  • 4
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:
German Formables:
- Lotharingia (Tier 3, Plausible)
- Arles (Tier 3, Plausible)
- Hanover (Tier 1, Historical)
- Pomerania (Tier 1, Historical)
- Swabia (Tier 1, Plausible)
- Franconia (Tier 1, Plausible)

Italian Formables:
- Tuscany (Tier 2, Historical)

Eastern Europe:
- Romania (Tier 2, Plausible)
 
  • 9Like
  • 3
Reactions:
I mentioned this in the list I just made.
Much appreciated, that is a way more fitting name as well if that was the intention of the formable (and I didn't notice it at the time, saw the list, though, it's really good).
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Why isn't there a ahistorical europa like for Asia? And maybe a tier IV of a Sino-sphere?
Perhaps China itself can be classified as a V-level
The fact that Europa exists as a tier 5 tag makes me think it's only fair for Africa (the entire continent), south america, north america, asia, and oceania to also exist as tier 5 tags. And then, the ompossible goal, the tier 6 world unity tag.
Asia and Africa should be divided into relatively small regions because their areas are too large
 
Historically, a small part of the Cossacks moved to the island of Cuba. They call this island "Kuban". Accordingly, in the case of establishing a colony on an island with an East Slavic culture, the tag should be called "Kuban".

The Russian Empire has historically claimed to be the heir to the Great Mongol Empire as the successor to the Golden Horde. She also declared herself the heir to the Roman Empire as the successor of Byzantium. But in reality, she never achieved any of these goals. In this regard, I suggest mythical tags:

"Golden Russia" for the Russian Empire, which united the lands of the Chinggisids. Three triangular ribbons (white, blue, and red) are attached to the flag.

"Roman Empire" for the Russian Empire that united Europe. The flag's canvas turns crimson, 117 shades (HEX: 750075).

"Three-Empire" for the Russian Empire, which has achieved success in its intended goals. The flag's canvas turns crimson, 117 shades (HEX: 750075). And three triangular ribbons (white, blue, red) are attached to the flag.

"Eurasian Autarky" for any country. The flag is an existing Eurasian flag with an eight-pointed star and needs no special introduction.

"Mundus Vetus" for any country that has conquered the old world. The flag is an image of the side of the Earth with the old world.

"Mundus" is for any country that has taken over the world. I'm not a fan of all these flags about earth, so let's have the "Paradox" banner on the flag.

You need new levels to form tags.
 
Last edited:
  • 3Haha
  • 2
Reactions:
I don't know if anyone has already mentioned this but since we have the North Sea Empire already why not adding the Danelaw? I know technically it wasn't a country but it could be an ahistorical Scandinavian culture formable version of England
 
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Lotharingia
Latvia
Belarus
Antioch
Israel
Sardinia Piedmont
Denmark Norway(or do the same with my plc union act suggestion)
Mongol empire
and for the funni USSR as pessant republics

Maybee the PLC's union of Lublin could function as a special integration act in the union parliament? since Lithuania was still a separate state during the plc
Now that I think about it why is it just Mongolia? 030
 
Much appreciated, that is a way more fitting name as well if that was the intention of the formable (and I didn't notice it at the time, saw the list, though, it's really good).
Yamato's translation or direct name in Chinese is Da He(大和),So it can be used directly.
 
Yamato's translation or direct name in Chinese is Da He(大和),So it can be used directly.
Ah, makes sense in that case (as an extension of me pointing out that Yamato is inconsistent with the other Chinese dynasties). Hopefully you still agree that just. Using Yamato outright is silly.

So even if we have to use Yamato as the base, He is the best choice.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: