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Tinto Talks #50 - 12th February 2025

Hey everyone, and welcome back. Johan is busy today (allegedly) so instead I will walk you through this Tinto Talks on Formable Countries in our little project called Caesar. It’s a fairly tight feature so this should be nice and quick.



What are Formable Countries?

Basically, formable countries are new tags that you can switch to. Typically they represent historical unions and conquests, but some represent aspirations that never materialised.

Generally speaking, the vision behind Formables is to offer roleplaying and historical immersion, and support player fantasies, rather than modifier stacking. They will change your country name, national flag, and map color. So while you may unlock some content such as advances or other minor unique content, the tag change is often the goal in itself.

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Spain gets some unique advances in the later ages, but not all do.

Rather than your country changing automatically every age, you achieve it by completing certain objectives. Usually, you'll need to control a certain percentage of a predefined set of locations, for example Scandinavia needs 75% of the locations in the Scandinavia region.

There’s typically additional requirements as well such as your Primary Culture belonging to a certain Culture Group. Forming Spain also requires you and all the independent countries in Iberia to be Christian, as it is thematically closely tied to the completion of the Reconquista. Iberian Muslims have the reverse rules for forming Al-Andalus.

Some are directly tied to actions in International Organizations, like the Holy Roman Empire or the Ilkhanate.

Formables also have a Tier that represents their natural order of precedence. You can only form countries that are the same or higher tier than you. For example, England (Tier 2) can form Great Britain (Tier 3) but Great Britain can’t form England. The AI will only form countries that are a higher tier.


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Country formation is just a click away.


There are 3 settings to the relevant game rule.
  1. Only Historical Formable Countries
    1. Only countries that actually formed in the game’s time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Spain and Great Britain
  2. Allow Plausible Formable Countries(Default)
    1. Countries that could plausible have formed, or formed just after the time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Germany and Italy
  3. Allow Ahistorical Formable Countries
    1. Aspirational or fantasy countries can be formed. Examples include
      1. North Sea Empire (which is a Tier IV) if you control Britain and Scandinavia
      2. Europa (Tier V)



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Some countries have different flags depending on the exact manner in which they are formed. For example this variant of the Union Jack with a dominant saltire when you start as Scotland.


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And some formables come with little treats to sweeten the deal.


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The Teutonic Order has a long way to go before they can become Prussia…


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But it might be worth it…


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Some exist to fulfil common player fantasies, but only appear if the player chooses in the Game Rules to have the less historical ones.



This is our current list of formable countries, let us know which ones you would like us add!

FormableTierNote
Europa5Ahistorical
Rome4Ahistorical
Hindustan4Plausible
Holy Roman Empire4Plausible
Byzantium4
Ilkhanate4
Iran4
Mongolia4
Mughals4
Rûm4
Russia4
United States4
Celtica3Ahistorical
Latin Empire3Ahistorical
North Sea3Ahistorical
Al-Andalus3Plausible
Arabia3Plausible
Canada3Plausible
Egypt3Plausible
Germany3Plausible
Italy3Plausible
Malaya3Plausible
Ruthenia3Plausible
Scandinavia3Plausible
Shan3Plausible
Banten3
Bengal3
Deccan3
Delhi3
Ethiopia3
Great Britain3
Gujurat3
Hausa3
Inca3
Kongo3
Manchu3
Maratha3
Mexico3
Poland-Lithuania3
Punjab3
Rajput3
Siam3
Sokoto3
Spain3
Timurids3
Two Sicilies3
Yamato3
Africa2Ahistorical
Carthage2Ahistorical
Hen Ogledd2Ahistorical
Aotearoa2Plausible
Greece2Plausible
Jerusalem2Plausible
Livonia2Plausible
Maya2Plausible
Albania2
Armenia2
Austria2
Ayutthaya2
Bahamis2
England2
Georgia2
Golden Horde2
Holstein2
Ireland2
Navarre2
Nepal2
Netherlands2
Poland2
Prussia2
Scotland2
Serbia2
Sweden2
Switzerland2
Tibet2
Wales2
Connacht1Plausible
Ulster1Plausible
Aïr1
Bavaria1
Beja1
Mazovia1
Mecklenburg1
Mossi1
Nassau1
Northumbria1
Pomerania1
Sardinia1
Saxony1
Silesia1


That's it for today's dev diary. Thanks for reading, and we'll see you next time, where we will talk about Subject Types, and an interesting part of the Castilian player fantasy…
 
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A nice formable would be the State of Muskogee (Mvskoke), since it existed during the time period and was an attempt to united the Muskogean people of the Southeastern woodlands. Would later be revived as an idea by the Spanish to make a buffer state between them and the US by uniting the Creek, Choctaw, Chickasaw, and others
 
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Would it be possible for (some) formable nations to choose from a list of names? Like how in EU4, Malaya can choose between one of four different names. Something like Yamato/Japan/Nippon, Great Britain/United Kingdom, Malaya/Nusantara, Spain/Hispania/Lusitania, etc. Plus maybe a game rule to disable the extra/ahistorical names for the AI or for all nations.
 
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Would an "Anahuac" formable (for a sufficiently dominant power in Mexico) as well as perhaps formables for more specific regions such as formables for a united Mixtec or Zapotec state be a bad idea?
 
Some suggestions for Portuguese related nations:

FormableTierNote
Galicia1Plausible
Portucale1Plausible
Portugal2Historical
Kingdom of Portugal and Algarves2Ahistorical
Portugalicia2Plausible
Kingdom of Portugal, Brasil and Algarves3Historical
Lusitânia3Ahistorical

Requirements for the formables:

Galicia: have all locations in Galicia region, have atleast 80% galician Pops in states, primary culture Galician;
Portucale: have 2 provinces in Portugal region, have atleast 90% pops of Portuguese and galician pops combined, primary culture Portuguese or Galician (only able to be released as a vassal);
Portugal: have atleast 70% of portuguese pops in states, have 50% of all provinces in Portugal region, have Portuguese as accepted culture (can't be released as vassal, portucale can be released instead).
Portugalicia: own all provinces in Portugal and Galicia Regions, have primary culture Portuguese or Galician.
Kingdom of Portugal and Algarves: Have primary culture portuguese, own atleast 30 locations in Morocco Region.
Kingdom of Portugal, Brasil and Algarves: Primary culture portuguese, has more portuguese and Brazilian pops in the Brazil region than in Europe continent, has capital in the Brazil region.
Lusitânia: own 75% of Iberian provinces, have 75% of portuguese pops in european provinces.


A little note: these might seem quite a lot of formables just for western Iberia, but they aim to represent different objectives that Portuguese had through times; First as the modest Portucale that transformed into the Portuguese Kingdom, then eventually into the ambition of a portuguese kingdom divided only by the gulf of sevilla, and much later, into the dream of a unified kingdom divided by the whole atlantic that lasted some years. All of these have some kind of historical fundament, or fruit of some delusions that are and would, nontheless, be funny to watch or represent.
 
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Colombia2Completely possible, Colombia first existed in 1810-1816, and then from 1831 onwards (as New Granada)
This is wrong. Colombia came to be on August 30, 1821 with the proclaiming of the Constitution of the Republic of Colombia (Gran Colombia). During the 1810-1816 period, known in the local historiography as Patria Boba (Foolish Fatherland), two competing states: the Free and Independent State of Cundinamarca (proclaimed on April 4, 1811) and the United Provinces of New Granada (proclaimed on November 21, 1811) fought among themselves for the control of New Granada. However, since none of them achieved full control of the territory (Cundinamarca was defeated by Independent New Granada and became annexed on December 10, 1814, but several provinces remained loyal to Spain and it was reannexed after the pacifying expedition of 1816, known as the Reconquest of New Granada), this can be represented with the civil war mechanics.

However Colombia (no "Gran" needed since "Lesser" Colombia didn't exist until May 8, 1863 when the Granadine Condederation became the United States of Colombia), should be a Tier 2 or 3 formable (depending on how colonial nations and vicerroyalties work) by controlling most of New Granada and Venezuela, and it should have the ambition to liberate all of the same culture colonial nations and annex all of the same culture states in the Americas (naturally, this should be impossible, but the Amphictyonic Congress could be a nice flavor event).

Colombia_(Miranda)_y_Congreso_de_Panamá_(Bolívar).svg.png


As a side note, I think it should be a nice flavor if the colonial nation of New Granada requires the annexation of the Muisca tag and before that its name is Tierra Firme.
 
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Can there be a non-dynastic “China/Zhonghua” formable, as the result of an earlier Xinhai Revolution, or a modernized celestial empire (e.g. complete all celestial reforms)? We already have tons of other nation state formables that were historically formed in the 20th century.
 
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Can there be a non-dynastic “China/Zhonghua” formable, as the result of an earlier Xinhai Revolution, or a modernized celestial empire (e.g. complete all celestial reforms)? We already have tons of other nation state formables that were historically formed in the 20th century.
Agreed, most of China tags are based around the concept of dynastic rule (Yuan, Ming, Qing), and in turn tied to the 'Mandate of Heaven' system which I assume will make a return to Project Caesar. But I think there should be an option for China to reject imperial rule- or at least the old fashioned system and become a more default tag based on the concepts of nationalism that would be China.

That said- it shouldn't be easy. I'd say it should require embracing the Enlightenment (a form of westernization) first, and doing so should probably tank your country in the short-term. I'd even go so far as to say it should be treated as a disaster- probably send your stability to -3, create a ton of unrest and have all your tributaries bail. But if you can weather the storm you can have a centralized nationalist China that's unbound from the restrictions of the Mandate system.
 
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Latin Empire should be marked "plausible". It had only been gone for about 70 years at game start, and there's a number of catholic states in and around Greece. If one of them managed to seize Constantinople, it's not a stretch that they'd try and revive the title.
Or at least if it gets formed by a Catholic military order.
 
There is plenty of room for Ahistorical countries from around the world to form, but I think there is a missed opportunity to add some plausible formable in both the America's, Africa, and Oceania by non-Europeans. Whether it is religious kingdoms, federations, or good ol' I rule here now, there could be some interesting ahistorical nation ideas that you guys and the community comes up with. It's also a chance for players to have some crazy challenges. My only concern is that like in EU4, the game becomes very Eurocentric.
 
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There is plenty of room for Ahistorical countries from around the world to form, but I think there is a missed opportunity to add some plausible formable in both the America's, Africa, and Oceania by non-Europeans. Whether it is religious kingdoms, federations, or good ol' I rule here now, there could be some interesting ahistorical nation ideas that you guys and the community comes up with. It's also a chance for players to have some crazy challenges. My only concern is that like in EU4, the game becomes very Eurocentric.
I mean I'm going to be surprised if we find out that Project Caesar ends up being Africa Universalis.
 
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The Scottish cultures belong to the following (Groups) and [Languages]:
  • Scots (British, Scottish) [English Language]
  • Highland (British, Scottish, Celtic) [Gaelic Language]
  • Norse-Gael (British, Scottish, Celtic, Scandinavian) [Gaelic Language]
Can you please tell us more culture groups in Tinto Flavor or feedback maps or something, I really want to know what culture is in what groups. In particular I really want to know what groups Griko is in.
This was a very informative response and I want more.
 
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Not that it ever came all that close to actually happening, but a Protestant Republican Confederation of England and the Netherlands was at least proposed on the english side during the civil war, not that the dutch ever entertained the idea much.
 
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I would like to heavily criticize your "Scotland forms Great Britain" Flag. Scotland did form Great Britain. The English throne was inherited by Scotland. The Stewarts were Scottish and nephews of Robert the Bruce who famously defeated the English. The normal union jack is the "Scotland forms Great Britain". There's always the narrative in EU games that is was the other way around, which always ends with England ahistorically conquering Scotland.
 
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What are your thoughts on forming historical vassal countries? For example if a Scottish or English ruler owns or has vassilised the majority of non-player Irish states for enough years. they can be merged into a new (historical) Lordship of Ireland nation under semi-autonomous control of the player?
 
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Completely ahistorical and made up, but maybe funny:

Let us unify the Caribbean Islands into the "The Caribbean Kingdom" or something like that.

Core Areas: Greater Antilles + Lucayan Archipelago + Leeward Islands + Windward Islands, Barbados

Maybe additional areas: Leeward Antilles + Trinidad and Tobago + Florida


westindies.png

caribbean.png
 
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