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Tinto Talks #50 - 12th February 2025

Hey everyone, and welcome back. Johan is busy today (allegedly) so instead I will walk you through this Tinto Talks on Formable Countries in our little project called Caesar. It’s a fairly tight feature so this should be nice and quick.



What are Formable Countries?

Basically, formable countries are new tags that you can switch to. Typically they represent historical unions and conquests, but some represent aspirations that never materialised.

Generally speaking, the vision behind Formables is to offer roleplaying and historical immersion, and support player fantasies, rather than modifier stacking. They will change your country name, national flag, and map color. So while you may unlock some content such as advances or other minor unique content, the tag change is often the goal in itself.

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Spain gets some unique advances in the later ages, but not all do.

Rather than your country changing automatically every age, you achieve it by completing certain objectives. Usually, you'll need to control a certain percentage of a predefined set of locations, for example Scandinavia needs 75% of the locations in the Scandinavia region.

There’s typically additional requirements as well such as your Primary Culture belonging to a certain Culture Group. Forming Spain also requires you and all the independent countries in Iberia to be Christian, as it is thematically closely tied to the completion of the Reconquista. Iberian Muslims have the reverse rules for forming Al-Andalus.

Some are directly tied to actions in International Organizations, like the Holy Roman Empire or the Ilkhanate.

Formables also have a Tier that represents their natural order of precedence. You can only form countries that are the same or higher tier than you. For example, England (Tier 2) can form Great Britain (Tier 3) but Great Britain can’t form England. The AI will only form countries that are a higher tier.


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Country formation is just a click away.


There are 3 settings to the relevant game rule.
  1. Only Historical Formable Countries
    1. Only countries that actually formed in the game’s time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Spain and Great Britain
  2. Allow Plausible Formable Countries(Default)
    1. Countries that could plausible have formed, or formed just after the time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Germany and Italy
  3. Allow Ahistorical Formable Countries
    1. Aspirational or fantasy countries can be formed. Examples include
      1. North Sea Empire (which is a Tier IV) if you control Britain and Scandinavia
      2. Europa (Tier V)



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Some countries have different flags depending on the exact manner in which they are formed. For example this variant of the Union Jack with a dominant saltire when you start as Scotland.


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And some formables come with little treats to sweeten the deal.


Screenshot 2025-02-12 123920.png

The Teutonic Order has a long way to go before they can become Prussia…


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But it might be worth it…


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Some exist to fulfil common player fantasies, but only appear if the player chooses in the Game Rules to have the less historical ones.



This is our current list of formable countries, let us know which ones you would like us add!

FormableTierNote
Europa5Ahistorical
Rome4Ahistorical
Hindustan4Plausible
Holy Roman Empire4Plausible
Byzantium4
Ilkhanate4
Iran4
Mongolia4
Mughals4
Rûm4
Russia4
United States4
Celtica3Ahistorical
Latin Empire3Ahistorical
North Sea3Ahistorical
Al-Andalus3Plausible
Arabia3Plausible
Canada3Plausible
Egypt3Plausible
Germany3Plausible
Italy3Plausible
Malaya3Plausible
Ruthenia3Plausible
Scandinavia3Plausible
Shan3Plausible
Banten3
Bengal3
Deccan3
Delhi3
Ethiopia3
Great Britain3
Gujurat3
Hausa3
Inca3
Kongo3
Manchu3
Maratha3
Mexico3
Poland-Lithuania3
Punjab3
Rajput3
Siam3
Sokoto3
Spain3
Timurids3
Two Sicilies3
Yamato3
Africa2Ahistorical
Carthage2Ahistorical
Hen Ogledd2Ahistorical
Aotearoa2Plausible
Greece2Plausible
Jerusalem2Plausible
Livonia2Plausible
Maya2Plausible
Albania2
Armenia2
Austria2
Ayutthaya2
Bahamis2
England2
Georgia2
Golden Horde2
Holstein2
Ireland2
Navarre2
Nepal2
Netherlands2
Poland2
Prussia2
Scotland2
Serbia2
Sweden2
Switzerland2
Tibet2
Wales2
Connacht1Plausible
Ulster1Plausible
Aïr1
Bavaria1
Beja1
Mazovia1
Mecklenburg1
Mossi1
Nassau1
Northumbria1
Pomerania1
Sardinia1
Saxony1
Silesia1


That's it for today's dev diary. Thanks for reading, and we'll see you next time, where we will talk about Subject Types, and an interesting part of the Castilian player fantasy…
 
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You also see Serbia in 1337. Bulgaria should be on the list for the fact that Bulgaria in 50 years breaks up into several smaller states that should have the ability to re-form into Bulgaria, just as Serbia breaks up into smaller states that should have the ability to re-form Serbia.
I'll present my support for this through an issue I've faced in EU4 gameplay, where Bengal is not a reformable tag. I wanted to play as the minor Bengali nations of Bishnupur and Tripura and try to reform Bengal but that was simply not an option and I was disappointed. Would be a similar case for an Bulgarian minor trying to restore Bulgaria, but alas, not being able to do so.
 
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Yuan never "reverted" to Mongolia after they were pushed from China proper by the Ming
They sort of did, it depended on the ruler and their current power, the title was initially abandoned for "Ikh Mongol Ulus" (Great Mongol State) in 1388, but then some strong rulers like Esen Taishi and Dayan Khan would call themselves the "Khagan of Great Yuan" whenever they were actual rivals to Ming power
 
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Countries to include:

Lithuania-Poland
Lotheringia
a huge amount of SE Asia tags. Especially India.
Tuscany
Most colonial independence movements
Mongol empire if not Mongolia
Persia if not Iran
IDK what would fit but something in Maritime SEA is needed besides malacca.
I assume Yamato is Japan? Would be curious to have a regional Japan tag.

seconding the suggestions of Denmark and France.
Someone undoubtably will want to do a Andorra to France run

In general having a unique formable per culture group and or trade node is a good idea especially if doesn’t unlock new content outside of an advance.
 
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Rather than your country changing automatically every age, you achieve it by completing certain objectives. Usually, you'll need to control a certain percentage of a predefined set of locations, for example Scandinavia needs 75% of the locations in the Scandinavia region.

Any 75%, not 75% including Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen, and possibly some other key locations? Is the 75% simply a number of locations or does development play a part in the calculation?

Formables also have a Tier that represents their natural order of precedence. You can only form countries that are the same or higher tier than you. For example, England (Tier 2) can form Great Britain (Tier 3) but Great Britain can’t form England. The AI will only form countries that are a higher tier.

So no way for a country to revert to lower tier? Eg Great Britain gets beaten in a war and is forced to release Scotland, Wales and Ireland, leaving it only with the former territory of England, it does not return to being England? Not even if it's reduced to an OLM?

This is our current list of formable countries, let us know which ones you would like us add!

Is there a separate list for releasable countries? If not, the first thing I notice missing is Finland. Also, thinking what is in EU4, Cornwall seems to be missing.

Something for American Natives. Lots of things actually, I was going to suggest Iroquis Confederation and other similar (imagined) ones but before that there needs to be tags that can form them. But if eg Cahokia conquers the whole North America, it could be called something else than United States.

It's my favourite historical event. It's heartwarming to see loyal British settlers celebrating king and parliament by making the world's biggest cup of tea.

How did they warm it up?

Why would the Roman Empire form Roman Empire? :p

At the risk of getting permabanned for impersonating a moderator or something:


Hey, there's a whole separate thread for that thing, go post there!
 
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Does Livonia represent the livonian people or is it merely a secularized Livonian Order?

On the same note it would be cool if Estonia and Finland could be unified into one nation (at least at the start of the game), seeing as the languages and cultures were still very similar due to only a century of germanic occupation.
 
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If the Order of Christ is in the game it would be cool if the Knights Templar were a formable. Since many of the surviving templar members joined that order, it's only been 30 years since the order was abolished from the games standpoint.
 
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I want to add that I am of the opinion the Kingdom of Burgundy and the Kingdom of Arles should be separate
 
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I’m sure it’s already in the works but more former colonial tags should be included like Texas, Brazil, Gran Colombia, Argentina, United Provinces of Rio de la Plata.
Aside from the more obvious ones I mentioned since colonization is much more granular in project Cesar maybe some more regional formables could work like New England, Appalachia, etc.
 
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Something for American Natives. Lots of things actually, I was going to suggest Iroquis Confederation and other similar (imagined) ones but before that there needs to be tags that can form them. But if eg Cahokia conquers the whole North America, it could be called something else than United States.
In Victoria 3, the indigenous people can form a label called Turtle Island, which I believe is a feasible name.
 
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