Honestly my biggest problem with this game is that it doesn't run. lol
I can play Cyberpunk 2077, but not CS2, amazing.
I can play Cyberpunk 2077, but not CS2, amazing.
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Well, there are still nearly twice as many people playing CS2 as people playing CS1 four months after its release.
I know my optimism can really suck sometimes.
I know my optimism can really suck sometimes.
That's definitely not optimism and I doubt CO & Paradox share your interpretation of these numbers.Well, there are still nearly twice as many people playing CS2 as people playing CS1 four months after its release.
I know my optimism can really suck sometimes.
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I know, being right can be very stressful.
If everyone here is going to be harping on about figures like that, I'd like to do the same for once.
What's curious is that I posted this a few days ago and the majority disagreed with me.
If everyone here is going to be harping on about figures like that, I'd like to do the same for once.
What's curious is that I posted this a few days ago and the majority disagreed with me.
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You made the mistake of pointing out a failure in a game people are passionate about... Once the passion is gone people start to see it clear for what it is.
And right now CS2 ain't even half of the first game in respect to content and way, wayyyyyy less accessible.
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Just to be sure, you're talking about CS I 4 months after its release and CS II right now?Well, there are still nearly twice as many people playing CS2 as people playing CS1 four months after its release.
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I think there is no right time to release a broken game. They know it's broken, and it is doing long-term damage. I was stupid enough to buy V3 Grand Edition, trust me I am not going to buy any DLC anytime soon and when I do they will be on sale. It's probably going to be the same for CS2.
It is not only about the quality of the game and that sort of thing. It is the disrespect shown to consumers. The communication and how those poor releases are handled is what gets me. Many companies do that these days. Then they whine about how hard they work. The people working in construction, nursing, etc., who buy their game don't work hard? You deserve respect, but you don't have enough respect for your consumers not to lie and not waste their money on a product you know to be terrible? I think a part of the developer community is very toxic and fails to see why they get terrible reactions from the public. PDX/CO are not the only one in that boat, this sort of thing happened a lot recently with western developers. They call the public toxic when they sell substandard products and get a well-deserved backlash. I am sorry they get their feeling hurt when they are told their work is bad, but it is.
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I got the following from an article about hype games that don't deliver. CS2 wasn't explicitly mentioned (but Starfield, The Finals or High on Life were, for example), but the whole thing is so symptomatic that it naturally applies to CS2 as well.
"It's not the first time that a game has been hit by its own hype. As the games industry strives to make games ever more gigantic, packed with features that appeal to as many people as possible, the demands placed on many AAA games are becoming increasingly unfulfilling.
A new hype cycle begins again and again, in which fans, hired YT influencers (Biffa, for example) and a publisher's PR department outbid each other - and in the end neither gamers, developers nor the company come off well. Pre-order bonuses seem to be worth more than the actual substance of the game. And be it Starfield or another AAA game. The hate that follows the hype is something we will probably experience again in 2024."
There's nothing to add to that.
"It's not the first time that a game has been hit by its own hype. As the games industry strives to make games ever more gigantic, packed with features that appeal to as many people as possible, the demands placed on many AAA games are becoming increasingly unfulfilling.
A new hype cycle begins again and again, in which fans, hired YT influencers (Biffa, for example) and a publisher's PR department outbid each other - and in the end neither gamers, developers nor the company come off well. Pre-order bonuses seem to be worth more than the actual substance of the game. And be it Starfield or another AAA game. The hate that follows the hype is something we will probably experience again in 2024."
There's nothing to add to that.
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Yes, I was comparing apples with oranges. That's what people do these days. I'm glad you noticed.
I wish this was true. They made it a lot better but I have garbage icons on harbors after the last patch and these are located in the industrial areas next to the garbage service buildings and nothing, years upon years go by and no garbage pickup yet I lose building efficiency for it. If you rebuild the harbor it just starts over again. So they are very close to having it fixed but this has still not been completely resolved.
I honestly hope the devs were at least able to relax a bit over the holiday personally I am the sort that has trouble not working if there is still a problem to fix. The devs themselves are just the employees and I feel that they got sort of tossed under the bus by the C suits forcing a product out the door that was not ready for prime time and then doing it leading into the holidays.
I feel like in another 3 months the game will be in the state that most were expecting on release.
I still feel like the major miss step in the entire release was just not labeling it as early access for the first 6 months while they finish the game.
Anyways, all we can really do as players is just report bugs and issues to the best of out ability and document them so the devs can work on fixes. At the end of the day no one would be in this forum or this thread for that matter if we did not really love this game and want it to be a success.
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But even admitting this comparison was meant to be sarcastic, it's factually not true. There is not still nearly twice as many people playing CS2 as people playing CS1 four months after its release, though july 2015 had the lowest CS number of players of all time (hence your choice of "4 months after release").Yes, I was comparing apples with oranges. That's what people do these days. I'm glad you noticed.
I also think nobody claimed oranges were apples but I guess sarcasm can help dodging some realities. That's what people do these days.
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It's been really interesting to read the posts here. I agree with some and disagree with others, obviously.
I do think CO / Paradox are here for CS2 for the long haul - whatever that might mean in the next ten years is debatable. The last CS game is ten years old, and they only recently released the final DLCs for it. It is still supported.
Many of the complaints about the gameplay are already being addressed by mods to the game. For example, there is a historic start mod that allows you to farm early, harvest timber, mine for ore right away, AND allow for trains earlier in the game. We will have a lot of customization, and depending on the popularity of said mods, changes to the base game will be made in updates for both PC and console - much as they did with CS1.
I disagree with some of the comments about the game being made for 'city painters' on YouTube. NOPE! Case in point: The lack of detailing tools, props, and even fences. So far, the YouTubers I have watched have done some functional, beautiful cities according to the current state of the game. No small feat, considering that many people here find the game unplayable. The road tools don't even allow for choosing which roads will have zones and which will not, or if there will be only one-sided zoning. You have to use the single texture path to carve that out for yourself. Not optimal for making a city painting!
I'm playing the game, enjoying it, and look forward to future fixes. It's ONLY three months. Having seasons built-in, the fast load time, the beautiful start to the road system, some nice realistic models, and kind of breathtaking maps, are all great beginnings. I can be patient, even if others cannot. The game is NOT SimCity 2013.
I do think CO / Paradox are here for CS2 for the long haul - whatever that might mean in the next ten years is debatable. The last CS game is ten years old, and they only recently released the final DLCs for it. It is still supported.
Many of the complaints about the gameplay are already being addressed by mods to the game. For example, there is a historic start mod that allows you to farm early, harvest timber, mine for ore right away, AND allow for trains earlier in the game. We will have a lot of customization, and depending on the popularity of said mods, changes to the base game will be made in updates for both PC and console - much as they did with CS1.
I disagree with some of the comments about the game being made for 'city painters' on YouTube. NOPE! Case in point: The lack of detailing tools, props, and even fences. So far, the YouTubers I have watched have done some functional, beautiful cities according to the current state of the game. No small feat, considering that many people here find the game unplayable. The road tools don't even allow for choosing which roads will have zones and which will not, or if there will be only one-sided zoning. You have to use the single texture path to carve that out for yourself. Not optimal for making a city painting!
I'm playing the game, enjoying it, and look forward to future fixes. It's ONLY three months. Having seasons built-in, the fast load time, the beautiful start to the road system, some nice realistic models, and kind of breathtaking maps, are all great beginnings. I can be patient, even if others cannot. The game is NOT SimCity 2013.
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you already could play as you like in Sandbox mode, even starting with the super ugly-boring looking farms. And the lack of detailing tools doesn't mean that people are not playing CS2 as a City Painter, they try to do so as best as they can with the existing material. Almost all Youtubers only do City Painting, the Youtubers only fool you with a functioning city, hardly any of them show you the actual game-breaking bugs. And sorry, the maps or better said the landscape on the maps have a look as it was state of the art 10 years ago...at least.
At the latest when you try to build a few houses in the mountainous terrain, you realize how poor the underlying landscape actually is. Especially in the mountains, the textures are really ugly, not to mention the snow on the peaks, which is simply painted white.
At the end of the day, you only need to look at the endless list of confirmed bugs to know what's going on.
At the latest when you try to build a few houses in the mountainous terrain, you realize how poor the underlying landscape actually is. Especially in the mountains, the textures are really ugly, not to mention the snow on the peaks, which is simply painted white.
At the end of the day, you only need to look at the endless list of confirmed bugs to know what's going on.
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OK did a short test but I do want to run the sim for longer because it maybe needs more time to generate (as again this game takes a long time for effects to manifest).
Situation before the test: I am in the red for at least three education levels.
Steam Community :: Screenshot :: Situation with 410K city, have not had capacity as needed at all levels. So adding schools.
Steam Community: Cities: Skylines II. Situation with 410K city, have not had capacity as needed at all levels. So adding schools.
So I add the required schools to at least get into the light green level.
Steam Community :: Screenshot :: Status after adding capacity at all education levels. Did shoot up a couple thousand in population but no improvement in slowdown.
Steam Community: Cities: Skylines II. Status after adding capacity at all education levels. Did shoot up a couple thousand in population but no improvement in slowdown.
(I have 71,254 elementary students, holy crap that's a lot)
Other than relatively quickly gaining another 2,000 population, no real improvement in the sim but I know a lot of things are not optimized in this city. There are very few traffic jams at least but I do have to optimize transit further - I think I need another few subway lines started. I think once more content is added, hopefully among that will be some junction stations to make things a little more efficient.
Steam Community :: Screenshot :: Biiiig city.
Steam Community: Cities: Skylines II. Biiiig city.
Will try to continue this test when I have more time available!
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This is an interesting comment, and I will just add to the running discussion here on the Paradox forum re: CS2 by saying that when Cyberpunk 2077 was released there were angry multitudes of crying, whining voices exclaiming about how the game was not ready, the devs had failed to deliver, the dream was not a reality, etc. etc. etc. (Many of the same things that many of you are hurling at CO about this game today.)
But NOW in the present day, awhile after launch Cyberpunk 2077 has a huge following, tons of respect for it's innovation (and wangs), and the gaming community sees it as an overall victory not a defeat. No Mans Sky was a similar unprecedented title that was also shredded and ridiculed at launch, but then grew into new mature forms of itself years later, to the pure delight of die-hard fans.
Personally, I have purchased Cities Skylines 2 for the game I know it will be, not what it was at release. I expect the development, progress, and improvement in the future will be more than worth the foolish shortcomings of the present. That's just me. I know someday I will be challenged, delighted, and soothed by CS2 as a peaceful break from repeatedly failing to Escape from Tarkov.
Just some balanced analysis to add color to this discussion. Flame away.
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I definitely see the potential, and simulation related gameplay aside, this is probably the best sim city building engine ever built.
Am I frustrated with the game? You bet. But I'm blown away by it too. Would it have been better to iron a lot of these crazy issues out first? No doubt about it.
But getting from where the game is now to where it needs to be seems far from impossible.
I personally can't even remotely relate to the whole "concurrent players" argument.
I look at the game and see a goldmine of modding opportunities. I'm not sitting here trying to get into a multiplayer lobby, and I'm neither Paradox or CO so I really could not care less whether or not it might affect them.
Worst case? This is all we get and we get a long decade or so of modding to give the game life.
Do I expect that to be the case? Not even remotely.
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A couple ideas for fixes:
-Add social assistance policy options for all the single child and senior/child households. If 7 year olds are going to live alone they should be able to receive government support. This will fix like half the high rent complaints.
-Ground and air pollution should impact land value. This will help with industrial areas abandoning.
-Add social assistance policy options for all the single child and senior/child households. If 7 year olds are going to live alone they should be able to receive government support. This will fix like half the high rent complaints.
-Ground and air pollution should impact land value. This will help with industrial areas abandoning.
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I guess it's relevant to the discussion that CS2 seems to have a lot of players who aren't gamers, they just picked up the CS games specifically. Granted, lots of people complaining are probably experienced gamers, but for the newcomers, I can't really blame them for not knowing, or realizing, that a game can be in a bad state at launch and still succeed in the long run with enough support.
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This. I can accept a failed release if I trust the team to work on fixes and improvements. But the way they handle communication feels more and more disrespectful, to the point that I'm progressively losing that ability to trust the team. I still want to believe that they're in good faith, but it's like they're doing everything to convince us of the opposite. For me the journey to launch video was the straw that broke the camel's back.
It's sad that some of us have to insist on expressing our disappointment until being censored and banned from the forums just to trigger the start of a real dialogue with the CM... And it's also sad that this dialogue can only happen here on the forums. When you look on social platforms you still see a lot of over-optimistic advertising and attempts to build a hype for a game that's in such a poor state. For all of us who preordered, we can at least blame our own resposibility for purchasing something too early. I for example learned my lesson, so I promised to myself I will never preorder any game in the future. But I feel sad for all the people buying that hype (and the game) right now. Generally speaking, I don't even understand how you can look at yourself in the mirror when you're selling crap by telling people it's gold.
I realize I'm now full of negativity on here. So I think this will be my last message, at least for a very long time. I don't wan't to become a hater, but the more I'm trying to follow this very bad communication, the more I become one. I paid 80€ for a game I barely touched, and all I hear (since 3 months now) from the people who sold it to me is misleading hype at best, and pointing fingers at worst ("the game is not for you" / "players demands are unrealisticly high"). With multiple forms of responsibility avoidance in between ("marketing people this, marketing people that" from a CEO... like come on, it's your company / "we have hundreds of serious bug reports but the gameplay is good, the gameplay is good, the gameplay is good" / and so on...).
We live in a sad, sad time, where companies have too much power and abuse it. If only this was only restricted to the gaming industry, maybe I could think that we can push for a change. But sadly it's everywhere now. Don't buy the hype. Don't buy at all. I'm so tired of being just a source of money. Call me naive but I dream about a world where business is not incompatible with respect.
I'm really sorry for this message that has no constructive point at all. It's just pure feelings, because I needed to express it. Probably to know that I'm not alone feeling like that. It will probably be striked by moderation again anyway. I sincerely wish a great gaming experience to all of you players.
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The biggest problems I have with the game right now are:
- Land value and the way it spreads throughout the city. Basically destroys my cities if they get older. Especially Industry areas.
- Export by train not working at all since December patch.
- tax system seems to have a overflow bug since december patch because in every city at one point it starts to break and produce millions of additional taxes or losses on one or 2 goods.
- no way to influence spawning of industry. I would expect to see more for example food industry to spawn if it has low taxation. But since even the tooltip does not say anything about taxes influencing new companies (it only takes about profitability of existing) it is probaply as designed.
- decision making of the ai what industry to spawn is way off. If I have cheap oil in my city but no grain it should not spawn new bio oil companies that need grain instead of companies that use the existing oil. This goes for all ressources. If I have a surplus on wood and a demand on wood products I expect it to spawn wood industry but it does not. If I have a demand for food and many food raw materials like chicken, I expect it to spawn food industry, it does not. The decision making therefore is not comprehensible from the player side and seems completely random.
- deleting busstops breaks the grid and leads to loss of roadside attached spawned buildings.
- bus station seems to be designed for left hand traffic and therefore causes conflict points on its entry and exit road.
- ai search for parking spot behavior causes massive unnecessary traffic because the cars will all try to enter full parking lots just to exit them again driving from one full parking lot to the next. Ai should not enter full parking lots but drive by if it is detected as full.
- Land value and the way it spreads throughout the city. Basically destroys my cities if they get older. Especially Industry areas.
- Export by train not working at all since December patch.
- tax system seems to have a overflow bug since december patch because in every city at one point it starts to break and produce millions of additional taxes or losses on one or 2 goods.
- no way to influence spawning of industry. I would expect to see more for example food industry to spawn if it has low taxation. But since even the tooltip does not say anything about taxes influencing new companies (it only takes about profitability of existing) it is probaply as designed.
- decision making of the ai what industry to spawn is way off. If I have cheap oil in my city but no grain it should not spawn new bio oil companies that need grain instead of companies that use the existing oil. This goes for all ressources. If I have a surplus on wood and a demand on wood products I expect it to spawn wood industry but it does not. If I have a demand for food and many food raw materials like chicken, I expect it to spawn food industry, it does not. The decision making therefore is not comprehensible from the player side and seems completely random.
- deleting busstops breaks the grid and leads to loss of roadside attached spawned buildings.
- bus station seems to be designed for left hand traffic and therefore causes conflict points on its entry and exit road.
- ai search for parking spot behavior causes massive unnecessary traffic because the cars will all try to enter full parking lots just to exit them again driving from one full parking lot to the next. Ai should not enter full parking lots but drive by if it is detected as full.
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