-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
A 623 scenario would be difficult as the drama of Muhammad's struggle with the pagans of Mecca all took place within 2 provinces, put that in an EU engine and 1 country will merely kill the other in something under 2 years. Also Mecca would start with vast advantages in wealth and manpower, meaning an AI Medina would be doomed.
In 632 the major problem facing the Caliphate was the wars of the Ridda (apostasy) in which all of Arabia minus Mecca and Medina revolted after Muhammad's death. 634 and the Caliphate of 'Umar would be a better start for the Islamic conquests, and the AI Caliphate will need lots and lots of help if it's going to succeed. "Rise of the Caliphate" or "Rise of Islam" would be a good scenario title.
750 is a good scenario date as well, it can be called "Golden Age of Islam" or "The Abbasid Revolution."
969/70 is a good date as well (969 is significant because that us the date of the Fatimid conquest of Cairo) the Caliphate was well into decline by this point and the main political and military power in Iraq were the Buyid Amirs (a scenario would have to start in 869 for a player wishing to attempt to arrest the Caliphate's decline).
The Shi'atu 'Ali (the party of Ali) existed by 'Umar's election, they didn't have to wait for 'Ali to come to power. The Kharijites were supporters of 'Ali up until the Battle of Siffin (658), in which they refused to agree to arbitration as 'Ali did (it was a Kharijite who later assassinated 'Ali). The Umma is the worldwide community of Muslims and does not refer to any state.
In 632 the major problem facing the Caliphate was the wars of the Ridda (apostasy) in which all of Arabia minus Mecca and Medina revolted after Muhammad's death. 634 and the Caliphate of 'Umar would be a better start for the Islamic conquests, and the AI Caliphate will need lots and lots of help if it's going to succeed. "Rise of the Caliphate" or "Rise of Islam" would be a good scenario title.
750 is a good scenario date as well, it can be called "Golden Age of Islam" or "The Abbasid Revolution."
969/70 is a good date as well (969 is significant because that us the date of the Fatimid conquest of Cairo) the Caliphate was well into decline by this point and the main political and military power in Iraq were the Buyid Amirs (a scenario would have to start in 869 for a player wishing to attempt to arrest the Caliphate's decline).
The Shi'atu 'Ali (the party of Ali) existed by 'Umar's election, they didn't have to wait for 'Ali to come to power. The Kharijites were supporters of 'Ali up until the Battle of Siffin (658), in which they refused to agree to arbitration as 'Ali did (it was a Kharijite who later assassinated 'Ali). The Umma is the worldwide community of Muslims and does not refer to any state.
cool-toxic said:Okay i´m done:
Great work cool-toxic.
Some are hard to tell what they are...
Did some "research", here's my try
1. Judaism
2. Nestorian (needs some better colors...)
3. Sufism
4. Christianity
5. Coptic (could look like this as well http://www.seiyaku.com/images/cross/coptic.jpg)
6. Sunni
7. Shia
8. Pagan
9. Zoroastranism
10. Buddhism
11. Hinduism
Having said this before, allow me to try again: Sufism is the mystical tradition within Islam and should be left to flavor/historic events despite its importance. From a game perspective, Kharijism is far more important as a religious strain. A few other questions--is there anywhere in the world (Khazaria maybe?) that could actually be assigned Judaism as state or province religion? And why have 3 distinctions for Christianity including the Egypt-only Copts if this is "Arabia Universalis?" If we drop Christianity to one or 2 religious slots we can elaborate on Islam a bit more (heck I bet I could fill 11 religious slots just dealing with Islamic offshoots). I can understand if we would prefer to leave the non-Islamic religions with more scope, but Kharijism should definitely supplant Sufism as a religion.
You did some great work aswell, I think we could use yours religions.bmpBirger said:Great work cool-toxic.
Some are hard to tell what they are...
Did some "research", here's my try
1. Judaism
2. Nestorian (needs some better colors...)
3. Sufism
4. Christianity
5. Coptic (could look like this as well http://www.seiyaku.com/images/cross/coptic.jpg)
6. Sunni
7. Shia
8. Pagan
9. Zoroastranism
10. Buddhism
11. Hinduism
I will say one word "Gameplay" Sufism->Kharijism? i don´t know we will have to talk about this some morezacharym87 said:
zacharym87 said:
yes, I agree.. Karjism could replace Sufism... we can use sufsm as eventeffects instead.. and use KArjism for the third islamic sect.
conserning Judaism we will have to look at the map.. if we use the plain EU-map, then Judaism would be useless.. (almost).. but if we make many small provs (especially in the ME), then Judaism is highly important.. there were large communities on the Arabian peninsula that followed Judaism.. not only Jews, but many Arabs as well. Having 3 types of Christianity is also good... beacause there was at least relation-differences between coptic and non-coptics.. Coptic Christianity could also be used in Nubia/Sudan, Etiopia and Libya.. possibly the Christians in Jordan and Yemen too (that existed prior to Muhammeds conquests).. it's ok to use "Christianity" for the rest.. that's Europe, western-north-Africa, Anatolia, Caucasus etc. Nestorianism (which also shoudl cover Abinonism in Arabia) is important as it covers the false Christians that denied the Trinity and welcomed Islam.. (because they denied the Trinity they were easier to convert for the muslims, and they also was not persecuted as much as true Christians, like the Copts/Greeks etc.
the use of religions all depends on the map.. if it is a EU-map then we'll have to reconsider some.. but having an own Arabia Universalis map would be good...
so it's okay with the 11 rels I think..
1 Judaism
3 Christian (Nestorian included)
3 Muslim (Karjism included)
1 Zoroastrian
1 Pagan
2 Eastern
cool-toxic said:
Yeah. ok..
We'll keep'em all of course... I misunderstood a bit..
I've seen many arab-country-tags in the 1.08... revolters... like Abasids, Fatimids etc.. then we can use them for our purpose.. but I think that we'll have to make some new/replace unused tags.. don't you? many European tags are not very useful at this stage... (like Russia, Spain, Preussen etc.) it would be better if we could make place for diverce ME-minors.. especially some pre-islamic arabs.. (if we're going to make a pre-Caliphate-scen).. Kuraish, the original tribe of Muhammed was the strongest tribe in Arabia for instance...
about the diplomats, missionaries etc. we'll have to keep'em of course..
about military tech I'm a bit worried.. it would be stupid if you got "revolutionary" armies during the Crusades.. someting that could very well happen if you play from 630 to 1090... (longer than the EU2-scope)...
probably we'll have to remake names of the military techs.. and also the combat-abilities.. what about ARTILLERY?? I know that Arabs got to know gunpowder ealy (after defeating the Chinese in CA).. but letting them jump around with massive cannons is maybe too kind of us...? (finishing the ww-Jihad would at least be possible then
..)and what about fleets.. we know that the arabs got fleets after taking Syria and Egypt (with which they tried to take Constantinople, but failed thanks to Greek Fire).. I suppose that Galleys will be the only ship available for some time??
well.. all of this will have to come later.. right??
the first thing to worry about is the map... let's just hope it gives us enough ME-provs to justify the sceanario..
Ah..if i can see detailed image of this scenario map. maybe i can help to live up that map too.
Here´s some maps but Hochiminh is allready working on the map.agung pasha said:Ah..if i can see detailed image of this scenario map. maybe i can help to live up that map too.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4325529&postcount=14
Zanza said:
I think that this "game", Arabia Universalis is only meant to be a scenario for EU2.. (with new map++)... but we're using EU2 as base...
and though it may not be a market outside the West and the Far-East, there's a lot of non-westerners in Europe..
I´m doing some changes in Text.csv ( Countries ) but I got a problem:
How many of these countries are we going to have in this mod?
here is the Countries:
normal = in
yellow = ?
red = out
ENG;England;;;;;;;;;;1129
FRA;France;;;;;;;;;;1130
HAB;Austria;;;;;;;;;;1131
HOL;Netherlands;;;;;;;;;;1132
POR;Portugal;;;;;;;;;;1133
PRU;Prussia;;;;;;;;;;1134
RUS;Russia;;;;;;;;;;1135
SPA;Spain;;;;;;;;;;1136
SWE;Sweden;;;;;;;;;;1137
TUR;Ottoman Empire;;;;;;;;;;1138
VEN;Venice;;;;;;;;;;1139
ADE;Aden;;;;;;;;;;1140
ALD;Algiers;;;;;;;;;;1141
ARA;The Hedjaz;;;;;;;;;;1142
ARG;Aragon;;;;;;;;;;1143
AST;Astrakhan;;;;;;;;;;1144
AZT;Aztec Empire;;;;;;;;;;1145
BAD;Baden;;;;;;;;;;1146
BAN;Bantus;;;;;;;;;;1147
BAY;Bavaria;;;;;;;;;;1148
BOH;Bohemia;;;;;;;;;;1149
BRA;Brandenburg;;;;;;;;;;1150
BRI;Brittany;;;;;;;;;;1151
BUR;Burgundy;;;;;;;;;;1152
CAT;Catalunya;;;;;;;;;;1153
CHI;China;;;;;;;;;;1154
COR;Corsica;;;;;;;;;;1155
CRI;Crimea;;;;;;;;;;1156
CYR;Cyrenaica;;;;;;;;;;1157
DAN;Denmark;;;;;;;;;;1158
EIR;Eire;;;;;;;;;;1159 if we are going to have a united Eire.
FPR;Huguenots;;;;;;;;;;1160
GEN;Genoa;;;;;;;;;;1161
GEO;Georgia;;;;;;;;;;1162
GRA;Granada;;;;;;;;;;1163
HAN;Hannover;;;;;;;;;;1164
HEI;Holy Roman Empire;;;;;;;;;;1165 are we going to have a united HRE?
HEL;Helvetia;;;;;;;;;;1166
HES;Hessen;;;;;;;;;;1167
HSA;Hanseatic League;;;;;;;;;;1168
HUN;Hungary;;;;;;;;;;1169
HYD;Hyderabad;;;;;;;;;;1170
INC;Inca Empire;;;;;;;;;;1171
IRA;Iraq;;;;;;;;;;1172
ITA;Italy;;;;;;;;;;1173
KAL;Union of Kalmar;;;;;;;;;;1174
KUR;Courland;;;;;;;;;;1175
KAZ;Kazan;;;;;;;;;;1176
KLE;Kleves;;;;;;;;;;1177
KNI;The Knights;;;;;;;;;;1178
KOL;Cologne;;;;;;;;;;1179
LAT;Teutonic Order;;;;;;;;;;1180
Lorraine;;;;;;;;;;1181 upper and lower?
MAH;Mahrattis;;;;;;;;;;1182
MAM;Mameluks;;;;;;;;;;1183
MER;Mercenaries;;;;;;;;;;1184
MLO;Milan;;;;;;;;;;1185
MOG;Mughal Empire;;;;;;;;;;1186
MOL;Moldavia;;;;;;;;;;1187
MOR;Morocco;;;;;;;;;;1188
MYS;Mysore;;;;;;;;;;1189
NAP;Naples;;;;;;;;;;1190
NAT;Natives;;;;;;;;;;1191
NAV;Navarra;;;;;;;;;;1192
NIP;Nippon;;;;;;;;;;1193
NOR;Norway;;;;;;;;;;1194
OHI;Iroquois;;;;;;;;;;1195
OMA;Oman;;;;;;;;;;1196
PAP;Papal States;;;;;;;;;;1197
PAR;Modena;;;;;;;;;;1198
PER;Persia;;;;;;;;;;1199
PFA;The Palatinat;;;;;;;;;;1200
PIR;Pirates;;;;;;;;;;1201
POL;Poland;;;;;;;;;;1202
PRO;Provence;;;;;;;;;;1203
PSK;Pskov;;;;;;;;;;1204
ROY;Royalists;;;;;;;;;;1205
SAC;Saxony;;;;;;;;;;1206
SAR;Sardinia;;;;;;;;;;1207
SAV;Savoy;;;;;;;;;;1208
SCO;Scotland;;;;;;;;;;1209
SHL;Holstein;;;;;;;;;;1210
SIB;Sibir;;;;;;;;;;1211
SIC;Sicily;;;;;;;;;;1212
STE;Golden Horde;;;;;;;;;;1213
SUD;Nubia;;;;;;;;;;1214
THU;Würzburg;;;;;;;;;;1215
TOS;Tuscany;;;;;;;;;;1216
TRI;Tripoli;;;;;;;;;;1217
TUN;Tunisia;;;;;;;;;;1218
UKR;Ukraine;;;;;;;;;;1219
USA;United States;;;;;;;;;;1220
WAL;Wallachia;;;;;;;;;;1221WUR;Wurtemberg;;;;;;;;;;1222
MUS;Moslem Nations;;;;;;;;;;1223
REB;Rebel Scum;;;;;;;;;;1224
MEC;Mecklenburg;;;;;;;;;;1225
BRE;Bremen;;;;;;;;;;1226
POM;Pommern;;;;;;;;;;1227
GEL;Gelre;;;;;;;;;;1228
FRI;Friesland;;;;;;;;;;1229
FLA;Flanders;;;;;;;;;;1230
MAG;Magdeburg;;;;;;;;;;1231
OLD;Oldenburg;;;;;;;;;;1232
MAI;Mainz;;;;;;;;;;1233
MUN;Münster;;;;;;;;;;1234
WLS;Wales;;;;;;;;;;1235
ORL;Orleans;;;;;;;;;;1236
AQU;Aquitaine;;;;;;;;;;1237
BOU;Bourbonnais;;;;;;;;;;1238
LUX;Luxembourgh;;;;;;;;;;1239
HAU;Brabant;;;;;;;;;;1240
AUV;Auvergne;;;;;;;;;;1241
CAS;Castile;;;;;;;;;;1242
NVG;Novgorod;;;;;;;;;;1243
RYA;Ryazan;;;;;;;;;;1244
LIT;Lithuania;;;;;;;;;;1245
TVE;Tver;;;;;;;;;;1246
PRM;Perm;;;;;;;;;;1247
NOG;Nogai;;;;;;;;;;1248
MOS;Muscowy;;;;;;;;;;1249
UZB;Uzbek Kaganate;;;;;;;;;;1250
KZK;Khazak Horde;;;;;;;;;;1251
AFG;Afghanistan;;;;;;;;;;1252
SUZ;Suzdal;;;;;;;;;;1253
MAN;Mantua;;;;;;;;;;1254
PIS;Siena;;;;;;;;;;1255
SIE;Siebenbürgen;;;;;;;;;;1256BYZ;Byzantium;;;;;;;;;;1257
RAG;Ragusa;;;;;;;;;;1258
GRE;Hellas;;;;;;;;;;1259
SER;Serbia;;;;;;;;;;1260
BUL;Bulgaria;;;;;;;;;;1261
BOS;Bosnia;;;;;;;;;;1262
ALB;Albania;;;;;;;;;;1263
ARM;Armenia;;;;;;;;;;1264
AMI;Armenia Minor;;;;;;;;;;1265
TRE;Trebizond;;;;;;;;;;1266
TIM;Timurid Empire;;;;;;;;;;1267
AKK;Ak Koyunlu;;;;;;;;;;1268
QAR;Qara Koyunlu;;;;;;;;;;1269
CYP;Cyprus;;;;;;;;;;1270
CAL;The Kaliphate;;;;;;;;;;1271 if we use the different dynasties as countries this is going out.
BAL;Baluchistan;;;;;;;;;;1272
HUR;Huron;;;;;;;;;;1273
CHE;Cherokee;;;;;;;;;;1274
CRE;Creek;;;;;;;;;;1275
APA;Navaho;;;;;;;;;;1276
DAK;Dakota;;;;;;;;;;1277
SHA;Shawnee;;;;;;;;;;1278
DEL;Lenape;;;;;;;;;;1279
QUE;Quebec;;;;;;;;;;1280
HAI;Haiti;;;;;;;;;;1281
MEX;Mexico;;;;;;;;;;1282
ZAP;Zapotec;;;;;;;;;;1283
MAA;Maya;;;;;;;;;;1284
COL;Colombia;;;;;;;;;;1285
LAP;La Plata;;;;;;;;;;1286
BRZ;Brazil;;;;;;;;;;1287
CHM;Chimú;;;;;;;;;;1288
ETH;Ethiopia;;;;;;;;;;1289
KON;Kongo;;;;;;;;;;1290
SON;Songhai;;;;;;;;;;1291
BEN;Benin;;;;;;;;;;1292
ZIM;Zimbabwe;;;;;;;;;;1293
ZAN;Zanj;;;;;;;;;;1294
MAL;Mali;;;;;;;;;;1295
DAH;Dahomey;;;;;;;;;;1296
ASH;Ashanti;;;;;;;;;;1297
KOR;Korea;;;;;;;;;;1298
MCH;Manchu;;;;;;;;;;1299
TIB;Tibet;;;;;;;;;;1300
BGL;Bengal;;;;;;;;;;1301
VIJ;Vijayanagar;;;;;;;;;;1302
KSH;Punjab;;;;;;;;;;1303
ASS;Assam;;;;;;;;;;1304
AYU;Ayutthaya;;;;;;;;;;1305
DAI;Dai Viet;;;;;;;;;;1306
ANN;Annam;;;;;;;;;;1307
VIE;Vientiane;;;;;;;;;;1308
LUA;Luang Prabang;;;;;;;;;;1309
MYA;Myanmar;;;;;;;;;;1310
TAU;Taungu;;;;;;;;;;1311
ARK;Arakan;;;;;;;;;;1312
KHM;Khmer;;;;;;;;;;1313
CAM;Cambodia;;;;;;;;;;1314
ATJ;Atjeh;;;;;;;;;;1315
PUR;Puritans;;;;;;;;;;1316
FUC;French Catholics;;;;;;;;;;1317
FEZ;Fez;;;;;;;;;;1318
ATH;Duchy of Athens;;;;;;;;;;1319
KAR;Karaman;;;;;;;;;;1320
DUL;Dulkadir;;;;;;;;;;1321
CAN;Candar;;;;;;;;;;1322
TEK;Teke;;;;;;;;;;1323
CRO;Croatia;;;;;;;;;;1324
JER;Kingdom of Jerusalem;;;;;;;;;;1325
XHO;Xhosa;;;;;;;;;;1326
ZUL;Zulu;;;;;;;;;;1327
MLW;Malwa;;;;;;;;;;1328
GUJ;Gujarat;;;;;;;;;;1329
JAI;Jodhpur;;;;;;;;;;1330
CHA;Champa;;;;;;;;;;1331
PEG;Pegu;;;;;;;;;;1332
FIN;Finland;;;;;;;;;;1333
DLH;Delhi;;;;;;;;;;1334
ORI;Orissa;;;;;;;;;;1335
STR;Strassburg;;;;;;;;;;1336MLC;Malacca;;;;;;;;;;1337
CHG;Chagatai Khanate;;;;;;;;;;1338
SLZ;Salzburg;;;;;;;;;;1339
MTR;Mataram;;;;;;;;;;1340
BEI;Brunei;;;;;;;;;;1341
MKS;Makassar;;;;;;;;;;1342
ABB;Abbasid;;;;;;;;;;1342
ALE;Aleppo;;;;;;;;;;1342
ALM;Almohad;;;;;;;;;;1342
ALT;Altmark;;;;;;;;;;1342
ANH;Anhalt;;;;;;;;;;1342
ANJ;Anjou;;;;;;;;;;1342
APU;Apulia;;;;;;;;;;1342
AMG;Armangnac;;;;;;;;;;1342
ART;Artois;;;;;;;;;;1342ASU;Asturias;;;;;;;;;;1342
AYY;Ayyubid;;;;;;;;;;1342
BAE;Balearic;;;;;;;;;;1342
BAS;Basra;;;;;;;;;;1342
BEA;Bearn;;;;;;;;;;1342
BUK;Bukhara;;;;;;;;;;1342
CMG;Champagne;;;;;;;;;;1342CRG;Chernigov;;;;;;;;;;1342
COI;Coimbra;;;;;;;;;;1342
CON;Connacht;;;;;;;;;;1342
CRD;Cordoba;;;;;;;;;;1342
CNW;Cornwall;;;;;;;;;;1342
CUM;Cuman;;;;;;;;;;1342
DAM;Damascus;;;;;;;;;;1342
DAU;Dauphiné ;;;;;;;;;;1342EDE;Edessa;;;;;;;;;;1342
EGY;Egypt;;;;;;;;;;1342
FAT;Fatimids;;;;;;;;;;1342
FRC;Franconia;;;;;;;;;;1342
GER;Germany;;;;;;;;;;1342
GOT;Gotland;;;;;;;;;;1342
HAM;Hammadid;;;;;;;;;;1342
HLL;Holland;;;;;;;;;;1342
ICE;Iceland;;;;;;;;;;1342
IST;Istria;;;;;;;;;;1342
JUT;Jutland;;;;;;;;;;1342
KIE;Kiev;;;;;;;;;;1342
KRE;Krete;;;;;;;;;;1342
KUS;Kustrin;;;;;;;;;;1342
KRN;Kärnten;;;;;;;;;;1342
LAN;Lancaster;;;;;;;;;;1342
LGD;Languedoc;;;;;;;;;;1342LEI;Leinster;;;;;;;;;;1342
LEO;León;;;;;;;;;;1342
LIV;Livonian Order;;;;;;;;;;1342
LOU;Lousiana;;;;;;;;;;1342
MLL;Mallorca;;;;;;;;;;1342MEA;Meath;;;;;;;;;;1342
MES;Mesopotamia;;;;;;;;;;1342
MSK;Minsk;;;;;;;;;;1342
MST;Munster;;;;;;;;;;1342
NRM;Normandy;;;;;;;;;;1342
NAF;North Africa;;;;;;;;;;1342
PAM;Parma;;;;;;;;;;1342
PEU;Peru;;;;;;;;;;1342
PET;Petra;;;;;;;;;;1342
PIC;Picardy;;;;;;;;;;1342
POD;Podlasia;;;;;;;;;;1342
POI;Poitou;;;;;;;;;;1342
POK;Polotsk;;;;;;;;;;1342
PRT;Porto;;;;;;;;;;1342
ROM;Romagna;;;;;;;;;;1342
SEL;Seljuk Turks;;;;;;;;;;1342
SEV;Sevilla;;;;;;;;;;1342
SIL;Silesia;;;;;;;;;;1342
SKA;Skåne;;;;;;;;;;1342
SLO;Slovakia;;;;;;;;;;1342
SMO;Smolensk;;;;;;;;;;1342
SEI;Steiermark;;;;;;;;;;1342
STT;Stettin;;;;;;;;;;1342
SWA;Swabia;;;;;;;;;;1342
SYR;Syria;;;;;;;;;;1342
TAN;Tangiers;;;;;;;;;;1342
THE;Thessalonika;;;;;;;;;;1342
TOU;Toulouse;;;;;;;;;;1342
TOX;Transoxania;;;;;;;;;;1342
TYR;Tyrol;;;;;;;;;;1342
ULS;Ulster;;;;;;;;;;1342
VAL;Valencia;;;;;;;;;;1342
VER;Verona;;;;;;;;;;1342
VOL;Volhynia;;;;;;;;;;1342
YOR;York;;;;;;;;;;1342
ZEE;Zeeland;;;;;;;;;;1342
How many of these countries are we going to have in this mod?
here is the Countries:
normal = in
yellow = ?
red = out
ENG;England;;;;;;;;;;1129
FRA;France;;;;;;;;;;1130
HAB;Austria;;;;;;;;;;1131
HOL;Netherlands;;;;;;;;;;1132
POR;Portugal;;;;;;;;;;1133
PRU;Prussia;;;;;;;;;;1134
RUS;Russia;;;;;;;;;;1135
SPA;Spain;;;;;;;;;;1136
SWE;Sweden;;;;;;;;;;1137
TUR;Ottoman Empire;;;;;;;;;;1138
VEN;Venice;;;;;;;;;;1139
ADE;Aden;;;;;;;;;;1140
ALD;Algiers;;;;;;;;;;1141
ARA;The Hedjaz;;;;;;;;;;1142
ARG;Aragon;;;;;;;;;;1143
AST;Astrakhan;;;;;;;;;;1144
AZT;Aztec Empire;;;;;;;;;;1145
BAD;Baden;;;;;;;;;;1146
BAN;Bantus;;;;;;;;;;1147
BAY;Bavaria;;;;;;;;;;1148
BOH;Bohemia;;;;;;;;;;1149
BRA;Brandenburg;;;;;;;;;;1150
BRI;Brittany;;;;;;;;;;1151
BUR;Burgundy;;;;;;;;;;1152
CAT;Catalunya;;;;;;;;;;1153
CHI;China;;;;;;;;;;1154
COR;Corsica;;;;;;;;;;1155
CRI;Crimea;;;;;;;;;;1156
CYR;Cyrenaica;;;;;;;;;;1157
DAN;Denmark;;;;;;;;;;1158
EIR;Eire;;;;;;;;;;1159 if we are going to have a united Eire.
FPR;Huguenots;;;;;;;;;;1160
GEN;Genoa;;;;;;;;;;1161
GEO;Georgia;;;;;;;;;;1162
GRA;Granada;;;;;;;;;;1163
HAN;Hannover;;;;;;;;;;1164
HEI;Holy Roman Empire;;;;;;;;;;1165 are we going to have a united HRE?
HEL;Helvetia;;;;;;;;;;1166
HES;Hessen;;;;;;;;;;1167
HSA;Hanseatic League;;;;;;;;;;1168
HUN;Hungary;;;;;;;;;;1169
HYD;Hyderabad;;;;;;;;;;1170
INC;Inca Empire;;;;;;;;;;1171
IRA;Iraq;;;;;;;;;;1172
ITA;Italy;;;;;;;;;;1173
KAL;Union of Kalmar;;;;;;;;;;1174
KUR;Courland;;;;;;;;;;1175
KAZ;Kazan;;;;;;;;;;1176
KLE;Kleves;;;;;;;;;;1177
KNI;The Knights;;;;;;;;;;1178
KOL;Cologne;;;;;;;;;;1179
LAT;Teutonic Order;;;;;;;;;;1180
Lorraine;;;;;;;;;;1181 upper and lower?
MAH;Mahrattis;;;;;;;;;;1182
MAM;Mameluks;;;;;;;;;;1183
MER;Mercenaries;;;;;;;;;;1184
MLO;Milan;;;;;;;;;;1185
MOG;Mughal Empire;;;;;;;;;;1186
MOL;Moldavia;;;;;;;;;;1187
MOR;Morocco;;;;;;;;;;1188
MYS;Mysore;;;;;;;;;;1189
NAP;Naples;;;;;;;;;;1190
NAT;Natives;;;;;;;;;;1191
NAV;Navarra;;;;;;;;;;1192
NIP;Nippon;;;;;;;;;;1193
NOR;Norway;;;;;;;;;;1194
OHI;Iroquois;;;;;;;;;;1195
OMA;Oman;;;;;;;;;;1196
PAP;Papal States;;;;;;;;;;1197
PAR;Modena;;;;;;;;;;1198
PER;Persia;;;;;;;;;;1199
PFA;The Palatinat;;;;;;;;;;1200
PIR;Pirates;;;;;;;;;;1201
POL;Poland;;;;;;;;;;1202
PRO;Provence;;;;;;;;;;1203
PSK;Pskov;;;;;;;;;;1204
ROY;Royalists;;;;;;;;;;1205
SAC;Saxony;;;;;;;;;;1206
SAR;Sardinia;;;;;;;;;;1207
SAV;Savoy;;;;;;;;;;1208
SCO;Scotland;;;;;;;;;;1209
SHL;Holstein;;;;;;;;;;1210
SIB;Sibir;;;;;;;;;;1211
SIC;Sicily;;;;;;;;;;1212
STE;Golden Horde;;;;;;;;;;1213
SUD;Nubia;;;;;;;;;;1214
THU;Würzburg;;;;;;;;;;1215
TOS;Tuscany;;;;;;;;;;1216
TRI;Tripoli;;;;;;;;;;1217
TUN;Tunisia;;;;;;;;;;1218
UKR;Ukraine;;;;;;;;;;1219
USA;United States;;;;;;;;;;1220
WAL;Wallachia;;;;;;;;;;1221WUR;Wurtemberg;;;;;;;;;;1222
MUS;Moslem Nations;;;;;;;;;;1223
REB;Rebel Scum;;;;;;;;;;1224
MEC;Mecklenburg;;;;;;;;;;1225
BRE;Bremen;;;;;;;;;;1226
POM;Pommern;;;;;;;;;;1227
GEL;Gelre;;;;;;;;;;1228
FRI;Friesland;;;;;;;;;;1229
FLA;Flanders;;;;;;;;;;1230
MAG;Magdeburg;;;;;;;;;;1231
OLD;Oldenburg;;;;;;;;;;1232
MAI;Mainz;;;;;;;;;;1233
MUN;Münster;;;;;;;;;;1234
WLS;Wales;;;;;;;;;;1235
ORL;Orleans;;;;;;;;;;1236
AQU;Aquitaine;;;;;;;;;;1237
BOU;Bourbonnais;;;;;;;;;;1238
LUX;Luxembourgh;;;;;;;;;;1239
HAU;Brabant;;;;;;;;;;1240
AUV;Auvergne;;;;;;;;;;1241
CAS;Castile;;;;;;;;;;1242
NVG;Novgorod;;;;;;;;;;1243
RYA;Ryazan;;;;;;;;;;1244
LIT;Lithuania;;;;;;;;;;1245
TVE;Tver;;;;;;;;;;1246
PRM;Perm;;;;;;;;;;1247
NOG;Nogai;;;;;;;;;;1248
MOS;Muscowy;;;;;;;;;;1249
UZB;Uzbek Kaganate;;;;;;;;;;1250
KZK;Khazak Horde;;;;;;;;;;1251
AFG;Afghanistan;;;;;;;;;;1252
SUZ;Suzdal;;;;;;;;;;1253
MAN;Mantua;;;;;;;;;;1254
PIS;Siena;;;;;;;;;;1255
SIE;Siebenbürgen;;;;;;;;;;1256BYZ;Byzantium;;;;;;;;;;1257
RAG;Ragusa;;;;;;;;;;1258
GRE;Hellas;;;;;;;;;;1259
SER;Serbia;;;;;;;;;;1260
BUL;Bulgaria;;;;;;;;;;1261
BOS;Bosnia;;;;;;;;;;1262
ALB;Albania;;;;;;;;;;1263
ARM;Armenia;;;;;;;;;;1264
AMI;Armenia Minor;;;;;;;;;;1265
TRE;Trebizond;;;;;;;;;;1266
TIM;Timurid Empire;;;;;;;;;;1267
AKK;Ak Koyunlu;;;;;;;;;;1268
QAR;Qara Koyunlu;;;;;;;;;;1269
CYP;Cyprus;;;;;;;;;;1270
CAL;The Kaliphate;;;;;;;;;;1271 if we use the different dynasties as countries this is going out.
BAL;Baluchistan;;;;;;;;;;1272
HUR;Huron;;;;;;;;;;1273
CHE;Cherokee;;;;;;;;;;1274
CRE;Creek;;;;;;;;;;1275
APA;Navaho;;;;;;;;;;1276
DAK;Dakota;;;;;;;;;;1277
SHA;Shawnee;;;;;;;;;;1278
DEL;Lenape;;;;;;;;;;1279
QUE;Quebec;;;;;;;;;;1280
HAI;Haiti;;;;;;;;;;1281
MEX;Mexico;;;;;;;;;;1282
ZAP;Zapotec;;;;;;;;;;1283
MAA;Maya;;;;;;;;;;1284
COL;Colombia;;;;;;;;;;1285
LAP;La Plata;;;;;;;;;;1286
BRZ;Brazil;;;;;;;;;;1287
CHM;Chimú;;;;;;;;;;1288
ETH;Ethiopia;;;;;;;;;;1289
KON;Kongo;;;;;;;;;;1290
SON;Songhai;;;;;;;;;;1291
BEN;Benin;;;;;;;;;;1292
ZIM;Zimbabwe;;;;;;;;;;1293
ZAN;Zanj;;;;;;;;;;1294
MAL;Mali;;;;;;;;;;1295
DAH;Dahomey;;;;;;;;;;1296
ASH;Ashanti;;;;;;;;;;1297
KOR;Korea;;;;;;;;;;1298
MCH;Manchu;;;;;;;;;;1299
TIB;Tibet;;;;;;;;;;1300
BGL;Bengal;;;;;;;;;;1301
VIJ;Vijayanagar;;;;;;;;;;1302
KSH;Punjab;;;;;;;;;;1303
ASS;Assam;;;;;;;;;;1304
AYU;Ayutthaya;;;;;;;;;;1305
DAI;Dai Viet;;;;;;;;;;1306
ANN;Annam;;;;;;;;;;1307
VIE;Vientiane;;;;;;;;;;1308
LUA;Luang Prabang;;;;;;;;;;1309
MYA;Myanmar;;;;;;;;;;1310
TAU;Taungu;;;;;;;;;;1311
ARK;Arakan;;;;;;;;;;1312
KHM;Khmer;;;;;;;;;;1313
CAM;Cambodia;;;;;;;;;;1314
ATJ;Atjeh;;;;;;;;;;1315
PUR;Puritans;;;;;;;;;;1316
FUC;French Catholics;;;;;;;;;;1317
FEZ;Fez;;;;;;;;;;1318
ATH;Duchy of Athens;;;;;;;;;;1319
KAR;Karaman;;;;;;;;;;1320
DUL;Dulkadir;;;;;;;;;;1321
CAN;Candar;;;;;;;;;;1322
TEK;Teke;;;;;;;;;;1323
CRO;Croatia;;;;;;;;;;1324
JER;Kingdom of Jerusalem;;;;;;;;;;1325
XHO;Xhosa;;;;;;;;;;1326
ZUL;Zulu;;;;;;;;;;1327
MLW;Malwa;;;;;;;;;;1328
GUJ;Gujarat;;;;;;;;;;1329
JAI;Jodhpur;;;;;;;;;;1330
CHA;Champa;;;;;;;;;;1331
PEG;Pegu;;;;;;;;;;1332
FIN;Finland;;;;;;;;;;1333
DLH;Delhi;;;;;;;;;;1334
ORI;Orissa;;;;;;;;;;1335
STR;Strassburg;;;;;;;;;;1336MLC;Malacca;;;;;;;;;;1337
CHG;Chagatai Khanate;;;;;;;;;;1338
SLZ;Salzburg;;;;;;;;;;1339
MTR;Mataram;;;;;;;;;;1340
BEI;Brunei;;;;;;;;;;1341
MKS;Makassar;;;;;;;;;;1342
ABB;Abbasid;;;;;;;;;;1342
ALE;Aleppo;;;;;;;;;;1342
ALM;Almohad;;;;;;;;;;1342
ALT;Altmark;;;;;;;;;;1342
ANH;Anhalt;;;;;;;;;;1342
ANJ;Anjou;;;;;;;;;;1342
APU;Apulia;;;;;;;;;;1342
AMG;Armangnac;;;;;;;;;;1342
ART;Artois;;;;;;;;;;1342ASU;Asturias;;;;;;;;;;1342
AYY;Ayyubid;;;;;;;;;;1342
BAE;Balearic;;;;;;;;;;1342
BAS;Basra;;;;;;;;;;1342
BEA;Bearn;;;;;;;;;;1342
BUK;Bukhara;;;;;;;;;;1342
CMG;Champagne;;;;;;;;;;1342CRG;Chernigov;;;;;;;;;;1342
COI;Coimbra;;;;;;;;;;1342
CON;Connacht;;;;;;;;;;1342
CRD;Cordoba;;;;;;;;;;1342
CNW;Cornwall;;;;;;;;;;1342
CUM;Cuman;;;;;;;;;;1342
DAM;Damascus;;;;;;;;;;1342
DAU;Dauphiné ;;;;;;;;;;1342EDE;Edessa;;;;;;;;;;1342
EGY;Egypt;;;;;;;;;;1342
FAT;Fatimids;;;;;;;;;;1342
FRC;Franconia;;;;;;;;;;1342
GER;Germany;;;;;;;;;;1342
GOT;Gotland;;;;;;;;;;1342
HAM;Hammadid;;;;;;;;;;1342
HLL;Holland;;;;;;;;;;1342
ICE;Iceland;;;;;;;;;;1342
IST;Istria;;;;;;;;;;1342
JUT;Jutland;;;;;;;;;;1342
KIE;Kiev;;;;;;;;;;1342
KRE;Krete;;;;;;;;;;1342
KUS;Kustrin;;;;;;;;;;1342
KRN;Kärnten;;;;;;;;;;1342
LAN;Lancaster;;;;;;;;;;1342
LGD;Languedoc;;;;;;;;;;1342LEI;Leinster;;;;;;;;;;1342
LEO;León;;;;;;;;;;1342
LIV;Livonian Order;;;;;;;;;;1342
LOU;Lousiana;;;;;;;;;;1342
MLL;Mallorca;;;;;;;;;;1342MEA;Meath;;;;;;;;;;1342
MES;Mesopotamia;;;;;;;;;;1342
MSK;Minsk;;;;;;;;;;1342
MST;Munster;;;;;;;;;;1342
NRM;Normandy;;;;;;;;;;1342
NAF;North Africa;;;;;;;;;;1342
PAM;Parma;;;;;;;;;;1342
PEU;Peru;;;;;;;;;;1342
PET;Petra;;;;;;;;;;1342
PIC;Picardy;;;;;;;;;;1342
POD;Podlasia;;;;;;;;;;1342
POI;Poitou;;;;;;;;;;1342
POK;Polotsk;;;;;;;;;;1342
PRT;Porto;;;;;;;;;;1342
ROM;Romagna;;;;;;;;;;1342
SEL;Seljuk Turks;;;;;;;;;;1342
SEV;Sevilla;;;;;;;;;;1342
SIL;Silesia;;;;;;;;;;1342
SKA;Skåne;;;;;;;;;;1342
SLO;Slovakia;;;;;;;;;;1342
SMO;Smolensk;;;;;;;;;;1342
SEI;Steiermark;;;;;;;;;;1342
STT;Stettin;;;;;;;;;;1342
SWA;Swabia;;;;;;;;;;1342
SYR;Syria;;;;;;;;;;1342
TAN;Tangiers;;;;;;;;;;1342
THE;Thessalonika;;;;;;;;;;1342
TOU;Toulouse;;;;;;;;;;1342
TOX;Transoxania;;;;;;;;;;1342
TYR;Tyrol;;;;;;;;;;1342
ULS;Ulster;;;;;;;;;;1342
VAL;Valencia;;;;;;;;;;1342
VER;Verona;;;;;;;;;;1342
VOL;Volhynia;;;;;;;;;;1342
YOR;York;;;;;;;;;;1342
ZEE;Zeeland;;;;;;;;;;1342
Last edited:
I read your list of nations.. good work..
it all depends, however.. on what time-scale we'll use..
if you mean to go all the way up to 1419... then, many of your "red"-nations need to be reconsidered..
If we're going to cover the Turkish expansion and the crusades... which we must if we advance must past year 1000... we need to keep countries like "Armenia minor" and "Selcuk Turks" etc. Ottoman Empire was red, that's okay... as long as we have another one to cover the big Turkish state.. if time rolls toward 1400 though, OE is necessary..
conserning early nations too.. you kicked out the Caliphate.. it's okay, we can use the different suceeding cals.. like Abasids, Umayads.. etc.. it should work fine.. but if we're going to cover the creation of the Muslim-Arab state (prior to the Caliphate), which were created by Muhammed from 623 to 630... we need a nation.. still this depends on the timescale.. are we going to start the camps after Muhammed.. 632/4.. or are we going to take him with us.. starting about 623?
so, before we go any further conserning nation-list...
what is the timescale..??
(good work on the list... don't get my wrong.. )
it all depends, however.. on what time-scale we'll use..
if you mean to go all the way up to 1419... then, many of your "red"-nations need to be reconsidered..
If we're going to cover the Turkish expansion and the crusades... which we must if we advance must past year 1000... we need to keep countries like "Armenia minor" and "Selcuk Turks" etc. Ottoman Empire was red, that's okay... as long as we have another one to cover the big Turkish state.. if time rolls toward 1400 though, OE is necessary..
conserning early nations too.. you kicked out the Caliphate.. it's okay, we can use the different suceeding cals.. like Abasids, Umayads.. etc.. it should work fine.. but if we're going to cover the creation of the Muslim-Arab state (prior to the Caliphate), which were created by Muhammed from 623 to 630... we need a nation.. still this depends on the timescale.. are we going to start the camps after Muhammed.. 632/4.. or are we going to take him with us.. starting about 623?
so, before we go any further conserning nation-list...
what is the timescale..??
(good work on the list... don't get my wrong..
)
Well i took the old country list from 1.08 last beta but will there be enough countries?mhusoy said:I read your list of nations.. good work..
it all depends, however.. on what time-scale we'll use..
if you mean to go all the way up to 1419... then, many of your "red"-nations need to be reconsidered..
If we're going to cover the Turkish expansion and the crusades... which we must if we advance must past year 1000... we need to keep countries like "Armenia minor" and "Selcuk Turks" etc. Ottoman Empire was red, that's okay... as long as we have another one to cover the big Turkish state.. if time rolls toward 1400 though, OE is necessary..
conserning early nations too.. you kicked out the Caliphate.. it's okay, we can use the different suceeding cals.. like Abasids, Umayads.. etc.. it should work fine.. but if we're going to cover the creation of the Muslim-Arab state (prior to the Caliphate), which were created by Muhammed from 623 to 630... we need a nation.. still this depends on the timescale.. are we going to start the camps after Muhammed.. 632/4.. or are we going to take him with us.. starting about 623?
so, before we go any further conserning nation-list...
what is the timescale..??
(good work on the list... don't get my wrong..
The name of this scenario is Arabia Universalis, We should focus on the middle east
All the german countries should be merged to HRE also having three France is not good maybe merge the countries to France and merge the monarch list then we could make something with Neustrasia and Austrasia.
we could also delete the russians minor, in the Kiev fall we could make many rebelions.
we need all iberian countries ( not Spain ) to make it nice.
Timescale ( it is long ) 421-1419 right? 1000 years to play in WOW it´s going to be great!!!
cool-toxic said:
ok.. so timescale is 421-1419... ok.. then we'll have to cover the complete Byzantine-history.. and 421 means that islam won't arrive for about 200 years.. which also means that three Christian sects are few.. but maybe okay.. hm.. are you sure that we should start in 421??
I totally agree with you conserning European minors.. we need only the most important.. the primitive peoples of the North shouldn't be bothered with too much..
but remember that islam rose up from about 620.. that means 200 years prior to this... the wise leader could easily crush the Arabs before Muhammed.. (and the Persians/Greeks would have if they had forseen the massive devastation he caused to the world..)
My suggestion is that we start after 620.. preferably the main campaign (Rise ot C) from 630/2/4 and on...
adding the years from 421 surely adds a nice historic touch.. but the mod shouldn't be "Arabia" Universalis then.. just remember that the Bysantines were at their peak in the late 6th century...
and all the work we'll have covering the massive migration in Europe at that time... Rome had fallen and Huns, Germans, Slavs, Avars, Magyars rushed in.. totally changing the map of Europe.. and Northern Africa etc.
if we start in 620/30 then things are more set... the massive migrations are completed.. at least that's my opinion..
Cool-toxic.. I admire your grand vision of this mod.. but we need to ask ourselves... what is the goal of our mod..? as far as I've seen. our goal is to play through the Rise and Fall of the islamic caliphate... we can add the life of Muhammed and possibly the Reconquista and the Crusades/Turks if we want..
our "core"-years covering our basics is 630-1000++ - this covers the rise and fall of the caliphate..
then we can add 10 years prior to 630, to play the creation of the Arab state.. and we can add 100-200 years thereafter to play the start of the Reconquista, Turkish expansion and the Crusades.. that gives 623-1230
if we expand even further we need to cover MAJOR events, not closely assosiated with islam or the Caliphate.. after 1200 we need to cover the MONGOLS and the BLACK DEATH, followed by THE HUNDRED YEARS WAR, and the GREAT SCISMA (when the Catolic church had two popes)...
prior to 620 we need to cover FALL OF ROME, TIME OF MIGRATION (in Europe) GOLDEN AGE OF BYSANTINES, PERSIAN-BYZANTINE WARS (300-630) etc..
I don't think that a mod called "ARABIA" Universalis should cover this...
my advice is to start 620/30 and end either before Turks/Crusades/Reconquista, that's about 1050... or add 150 years, to cover those events.. Crusades 1090-1190 appr. Turkish exp. 1070 and onward. and Reconquista starts 1050 and is almost finished in mid 1200s..
what do you think.. I'm only sharing my ideas.. of course a timespan of 1000 years would be great.. but do we have the resources (gameplay-wise), the patience for it..?? (plus we'll have to change name..)
our "core"-years covering our basics is 630-1000++ - this covers the rise and fall of the caliphate..
then we can add 10 years prior to 630, to play the creation of the Arab state.. and we can add 100-200 years thereafter to play the start of the Reconquista, Turkish expansion and the Crusades.. that gives 623-1230
if we expand even further we need to cover MAJOR events, not closely assosiated with islam or the Caliphate.. after 1200 we need to cover the MONGOLS and the BLACK DEATH, followed by THE HUNDRED YEARS WAR, and the GREAT SCISMA (when the Catolic church had two popes)...
prior to 620 we need to cover FALL OF ROME, TIME OF MIGRATION (in Europe) GOLDEN AGE OF BYSANTINES, PERSIAN-BYZANTINE WARS (300-630) etc..
I don't think that a mod called "ARABIA" Universalis should cover this...
my advice is to start 620/30 and end either before Turks/Crusades/Reconquista, that's about 1050... or add 150 years, to cover those events.. Crusades 1090-1190 appr. Turkish exp. 1070 and onward. and Reconquista starts 1050 and is almost finished in mid 1200s..
what do you think.. I'm only sharing my ideas.. of course a timespan of 1000 years would be great.. but do we have the resources (gameplay-wise), the patience for it..?? (plus we'll have to change name..)
