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I´m so much sorry i made a writing error 621-1200 now that you say it 1200 sound better.mhusoy said:
I have another idea, what if we end the mod in 1000? then we would have many free countrie tags to use on the arabs.mhusoy said:
Only take the important countries from Europe.
I have another idea, what if we end the mod in 1000? then we would have many free countrie tags to use on the arabs.mhusoy said:
Only take the important countries from Europe.
Then we would have 400 years to play in, like in vanilla.
cool-toxic said:
Yes.. that timescale is nice.. and it suits the name Arabia Universalis much better...
we can start 620/30 (20 for the Muhammed scen and 30 for the Rise ot C).. and end about year 1000. As noted before 969/70 is important dates.. but we will need them to recreate a "smaller" fall otC-scenario..
If we now make a comparizon between EU2 and Arabia Universalis scenarios:
EU2...................................AU
GC...1419-1820....................Age of Muhammed.......................620/3.-10??
AoE.1492-1792....................Rise of the Caliphate................... 630/2..-10??
AoM.1617-17??....................The Golden Age of Islam (or Cal)....750.....-10??
AoE..1700-17??.....................---------------------------------------------
AoR.1773-1820....................The Fall of the Caliphate...............969/70-10??
NA...1795-1820....................---------------------------------------------
We get four scenarios vs. EU2s six... that's good...
The GC always gives you ahistorical outcomes, and many majors haven't formed yet.. the same would apply for our Age of Muhammed.. the Caliphate hasn't formed yet (you get an event) and things are not so "set" as in the next camp.
AoE gives you established Majors, like Spain, OE, Denmark etc. the same for our "Rise of the Cal", as the Cal is formed and ready to crush the Byz and the Pers..
AoM reflects the mid-time political situation.. were OE, Poland, Spain and Sweden are exceptionally strong.. (none of them are strong 100 years later) for our "Golden age" camp.. The Caliphate enters its best time.. the age of major expansion is over, but the time for economy and grandeur is here..
we don't have a camp that corresponds to AoE, but that's ok..
AoR and Napoleons Ambition let you play the last wartorn years of EU2... our "Fall of the Cal" reflects a similar period..
exactly when to start and end all scens is a question of history.. which we will study in detail as soon as required.. but at least we now got the core-years of each scen..
though some EU2-scens ends before 1820.. our scens can all end at the latest date.. some time after year 1000... (we need to find a good, historical reasonable end year.. but we should stay clear of the Crus and Turks..)
(I think CK starts in 1066.. by that may be to late for us...) we should stay closer to 1000..
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That sounds great all we need is a map now hehemhusoy said:
, and then we can begin on making the scenarios.
cool-toxic said:
Yes.. removing many Europeans (and of course Americans..) is nice.. we don't need'em.. but the question is, how big is our map...
you see that both history (time) and geography (space) limits and demands our campaign..
what I've picked up from earlier, our map will cover most of continental Europe, Africa as far south as Equator++, whole of Asia (except for Siberia), and Indonesia++
covering this areas demands that we have tags to "appease" all areas.. we can't just skip areas we don't like.. we can however, as you suggest, merge nations on the outskirts of the world... but remember that merging germans into HRE, and French into Charlemagnes France, may cause them to be dangerous for our project.. we need at least limit their powers.. (like the Timurids of EU2 etc.)
but what is important is that we cover all Arabs and Middleeasterners.. I guess that we need some tags for "pre-islamic"-nations in the ME.. and many tags for the vast number of emirates and kingdoms that sprung up around 900 and onwards.. we should prioritze it.. but don't forget that there were many small nations in Balcans, Kaucasus, India etc. too..
how many tags do we have.. was it the complete list you showed us earlier cool-toxic? I suggest you get on with that list as soon as possible.. but probably you'll have to be in contact with our cartographer, Ho Chi Minh... as he'll know which countries to keep and drop..
good luck..
cool-toxic said:That sounds great all we need is a map now hehe
yes, the map.. is the Alpha and the Omega for now..
I suggest we end all scenarios latest in 1031.. that's when the Cordoba-caliphate fell, and the Almoravids from Morocco crossed the Gibraltar to stop the reconquistadors.. 1031 is the (big) start of the Reconquista... and the Caliphate of Cordoba is gone..
Then we have 620/2/3-1031.. which is good enough..
for the Mid-scen.. 749/50/51 is good, as the Abasids suceeded the Umayads in 749.. (the battle of Talas was in 751)..
I'm still a bit unsure of the start of the last camp..
Then we have 620/2/3-1031.. which is good enough..
for the Mid-scen.. 749/50/51 is good, as the Abasids suceeded the Umayads in 749.. (the battle of Talas was in 751)..
I'm still a bit unsure of the start of the last camp..
mhusoy said:
We can go for the introducion of the Fatimids in Egypt, 909.. or wait even longer..?
as far as I've noted after reading some history on the cal-subject.. it seems that the decline started about 830/40... and lasted a long time.. but it speeded up around 910, when the fatimids took Egypt..
Here are my suggestions:
scen1: Age of Muhammed, starting with the move to Medina in 622... -1031
scen2: Rise of the Caliphate, starting with Abu Bakr in 632 stabl. Arabia -1031
scen3: Golden age of Islam, starting 749, Abasids -1031
scen4: Fall of the Caliphate, starting 909 with Fatimid-compet. in Egypt -1031
of course we'll have major events all the way.. leading from the death of Muhammed and creation of the Caliphate in 632, through the new Caliphes of 634, 650 etc. and the creation of the Shiites of 661... then change from Umayads to Abasids in 749 etc. Tulunids in Egypt 869-905, Mameluk-mercenaries from 830 etc.. forceconversion of Copts in Egypt 1006 etc.
we also need to make events that reflects the massacres of the original populations of the Middle-East.. as the population of the region suffered heavily because of the Arab conquest.
but what do you say to the camp. periods?
1: 622-1031, 2: 632-1031, 3:749-1031, 4:909-1031
scen1: Age of Muhammed, starting with the move to Medina in 622... -1031
scen2: Rise of the Caliphate, starting with Abu Bakr in 632 stabl. Arabia -1031
scen3: Golden age of Islam, starting 749, Abasids -1031
scen4: Fall of the Caliphate, starting 909 with Fatimid-compet. in Egypt -1031
of course we'll have major events all the way.. leading from the death of Muhammed and creation of the Caliphate in 632, through the new Caliphes of 634, 650 etc. and the creation of the Shiites of 661... then change from Umayads to Abasids in 749 etc. Tulunids in Egypt 869-905, Mameluk-mercenaries from 830 etc.. forceconversion of Copts in Egypt 1006 etc.
we also need to make events that reflects the massacres of the original populations of the Middle-East.. as the population of the region suffered heavily because of the Arab conquest.
but what do you say to the camp. periods?
1: 622-1031, 2: 632-1031, 3:749-1031, 4:909-1031
I see that our islamic historian Zacarym87 proposes 751 and 969 as good starting dates...
well, we could use 751 instead of 749.. and perhaps add 969 too.. but I feel that we should have a date between 751 and 969.. since it's an awful lot of time, and the decline started in the mid 800s..
we'll keep 622- and 632-.. most important is of course 632, as the Caliphate has formed by then, and it'll be ready to take on the byz and pers.. but I still think that making an alternative start in 622 gives us a touch of being closer to the source.. as we follow the creation of the pre-caliphatic muslim-state.. Mohammad should be a 6-6-6 leader, and a 9-9-9 monarch.. (he dies after 10 years so you can't conquer the whole world with him anyhow..)
well, we could use 751 instead of 749.. and perhaps add 969 too.. but I feel that we should have a date between 751 and 969.. since it's an awful lot of time, and the decline started in the mid 800s..
we'll keep 622- and 632-.. most important is of course 632, as the Caliphate has formed by then, and it'll be ready to take on the byz and pers.. but I still think that making an alternative start in 622 gives us a touch of being closer to the source.. as we follow the creation of the pre-caliphatic muslim-state.. Mohammad should be a 6-6-6 leader, and a 9-9-9 monarch.. (he dies after 10 years so you can't conquer the whole world with him anyhow..)
cool-toxic said:
Are you sure you understood what I mean..?
when I suggested to to it like the timurids, I only meant that we need to make Sassanids and Byzantines weak enough, so that the Arabs can take them down... of course the best step would be to let them start with -3 stab.. and depleted manpower.. (historically that was the reason why the arabs were successfull - that the Empires had wasted their soldiers in the massive fights against each others, the last war ending shortly before the Arab explosion)
but remember: we need to stick to the historical facts.. my vision is (amongst other things) that we give the Byzantines a bad event, that makes the rr in the Nestorian and coptic provs rise.. together with low stab and low manpower and small armies, they should be ripe for harvest.. (the clue would be to make this happen in our Muhammed-camp. also.. give them many bad events.. as the experienced player would be able to shift the tides if he were given 10/12 years... (622-634 when the Arabs attacked..) )
a question: have you begun making the scens already? do you have the map?
cool-toxic said:
well. that depends on wether we make a camp. start in 909 or 969... if we go for the last we need a 850-scen.. but a 909-scen will cover enough...
since our camps will end latest 1031.. a camp in 969 would only allow 62 years of playing... (and it will also request that we make a fifth camp)
I suggest we go for the 749 and 909 camps.. together with 632, (and 622) we'll then have enough I think.. (later we can add a 830/40-scen)
the most important in the start would be to work on 632 (and 622)
In 749 it's natural to start with the abasids.. the camp. starting in 632 will allow you to become the Umayads in 661..
the question is wether we should let the player "evolve" by letting him become the suceeding Caliphates... Umayads, Abasids etc.
should we start as "The Caliphate" in 632(22) or as the "Hedjaz"..?? (Hedjaz' tag is ARA)
from Mohammad through the four first Caliphs, Abu, Omar, Osman and Ali, what was the name of the nation... "The Caliphate".. or did they have another name, like "Umayads" or "Abasids"...
I've seen that EU2 has some other names too, but they belong to a later age, like Almohads, Ayubids etc..
we can use Fatimids though, (909-- in Egypt), and Cordoba (first emirate, then independent Caliphate)
the question is wether we should let the player "evolve" by letting him become the suceeding Caliphates... Umayads, Abasids etc.
should we start as "The Caliphate" in 632(22) or as the "Hedjaz"..?? (Hedjaz' tag is ARA)
from Mohammad through the four first Caliphs, Abu, Omar, Osman and Ali, what was the name of the nation... "The Caliphate".. or did they have another name, like "Umayads" or "Abasids"...
I've seen that EU2 has some other names too, but they belong to a later age, like Almohads, Ayubids etc..
we can use Fatimids though, (909-- in Egypt), and Cordoba (first emirate, then independent Caliphate)
If we do add a camp (or two)... our timescale would be covered by camps quite like EU2:
EU2....................AU
1419..................622 1
1492..................632 2
1617..................749 3
1700..................836 4
1773..................909 5
1795..................969 6
but that's later, right? first we need to work on 1/2, 3 and 5...
EU2....................AU
1419..................622 1
1492..................632 2
1617..................749 3
1700..................836 4
1773..................909 5
1795..................969 6
but that's later, right? first we need to work on 1/2, 3 and 5...
Yes thats right.mhusoy said:
I did meen with bad events and bad stability.
I haven´t started on making the map just the text.csv, I don´t got the map.